TSY : You’ll get a sandwich, bag of crisps, chocolate bar and mule bar every morning. Couple that with something isotonic in the camelbak, perhaps a couple of backup bars and you should be sorted. Remember that the racing is limited to the predominately downhill special stages. Although it’s undoubtedly a big week in the saddle, it’s not exactly Iditarod or Tour Divide territory. Most of the day is spent riding at a relaxed pace. Breakfast and dinner are very good so you won’t be short of fuel.

You do need a good amount of protein content for regular cycling especially if its hard and hilly, The last time I looked my legs were made up of a lot of muscle probably more than a third of my body! So all the carbs in the world won’t help muscle recovery like protein will. I think a lot of people who cycle a lot forget about needing a good intake of protein and eat way too many carbs after and during rides and not enough protein.

seth – what do you think happens to all that extra protein?

Yeah I know you can say it turns to fat! but what happens to excess carbs? I would rather have excess protein than carbs.

Most people eat way too many carbs just because carbs are so easy to find in abundance in a normal diet. Good protein from a low fat source tends to be a lot harder to find in a normal diet. So its no surprise people don’t eat enough which will have a big effect on muscle recovery.

Have a look at your own diet and it will be plain to see, well it is with most people. I’m not sure if you are a professional athlete or not. Or even someone who trains a lot etc. If you are then maybe you will have the correct balance I doubt it seen as you ride a tandem 🙂

seth – the point is most westerners eat far too much protein – eating even more makes no difference to muscles.

Unless you are protein deficient which is actually quite hard to do eating more will make no difference at all apart from putting your body under extra strain

Ha that’s such a cop out saying westerns eat too much protein as opposed to us eating the correct amount of carbs and fat! Yeah maybe your average jelly belly office worker who hardly does anything most days or weekends eats too much for there needs, but then again I bet they eat far more carbs and fat than they do eat protein!

My point is aimed at regular cyclists at a decent level of fitness who may do physical work and or train at gyms and do other sports and are active. I can tell you from experience lot of them won’t be consuming enough protein to maximise there muscle recovery and for there body to work as efficient as it could.

I personally find it hard to get enough protein to aid my recovery from regular gym sessions and even the once to twice a week cycling I do and numerous dog walking hikes etc. So anyone doing even more than me which lots of people do must have a problem. I eat regular and half decent too.

The only time I’ve noticed a difference is taking them and not drinking alcohol, however the not drinking alcohol is probably the more important factor in your recovery for the next day.

I think the difference is small, its not a magic wand. Only adaptation over time will make a significant difference IMO.

Whats wrong with a few aches and pains anyway? Shows you’ve had a good workout.

Out of interest…

Those that use protein shakes/ recovery drinks…

How fit do you consider yourselves?
Are you trying to lose or gain weight?
Do you enjoy cooking / food?

I use For Goodness Shakes and I think they really make a difference to recovery. Yes they are expensive but I believe the hype re. amino acids, proteins etc being in the right quantities.

To answer your questions:
1. Fairly fit for an overweight person (can get around Glentress Red without collapsing)
2. Trying to lose weight thanks
3. I do enjoy cooking thanks and with a young family to feed I do so every day.

Your point about these recovery drinks being too many calories for a fat person is interesting.

I am trying to increase the number of rides (and runs) I do in order to get fitter and lose the ‘baby weight’ I have collected. I use FGS in order to give my muscles the best chance of recovering so I can go out on consecutive days. I think if you use these drinks as part of your daily calorific intake and not as an extra then you’re pretty much assured not to wake up the next day weighing twice as much as the day before. Everything in moderation?

seth – there is no proven evidence for extra protein doing anything useful at all – you could reduce your protein intake by a large amount and still have plenty for muscle repair.

Try to find some decent quality evidence for a high protein diet being of any use to folk like us who do a bit of exercise.

as said above your average Joe might not do enough to warrant it. But if you step up and start hammering it I guarantee you will need more. End of story. Go ask any athlete from a Boxer to a speed skater and the first thing they start from in there diet is higher protein intake. You are doing the thing of looking at everything from your own perspective! But no one could ever accuse you of that on here! 🙄

Seth – there is no decent evidence that what you claim is true. There may be a marginal benefit for elite endurance athletes but even this is debatable.

Go on – find some decent independent peer reviewed evidence

Its common knowledge the internet and various books written by dieticians and people involved in sport, both athletes and trainers is full of abstract information regarding the benefits of a well balanced protein diet. I suggest anyone serious about this looks it up and makes there own mind up in regard to this. Or even trys it for them selves to see if its makes a difference. I know it does with me with my body type and activity levels

It simple as this all the muscle a body builder has is not just through steroids its through a high protein diet in order to maintain muscle mass and strength. You can’t have one without the other. Do you think someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger would have had that much muscle if he only had an average to below intake of protein! Or a sprinter, boxer etc. Do you think Chris Hoy eats just an average amount of protein the same as a granny who walks to the shops once a day! Anyone who has even an average amount of muscle mass needs more protein!

As I stated before Please don’t compare a Jelly Belly office worker or someone who commutes to work three miles a day on a flat road as someone would not benefit from higher protein intake! Anything to the contrary is just incendiary!

Find some actual evidence!

Beyond elite endurance atheletes there is no benefit to a high protein diet and even for them its hard to establish any benefit.

seriously – you need to look for some real evidence on this – “common knowledge” is often wrong. Most of us eat 10X as much protein as we need

I’ve just skimmed through this but I like using the MHP Dark Matter after a tough training session. It helps a lot I think, combined with a slow release protein with milk before bed.

what a joke as if anyone who does regular and hard exercise will be eating 10x more than they need! that’s just being incendiary and you know it! I mean you must be eating a stupid amount of calories to be eating 10x more than you need. that means the fat intake and carbs will be off the scale if you are managing to get that much protein in excess to what you need. The food bill must be very expensive too. Your argument stands up even less when you consider protein is harder to get from most food than carbs!

So where is your evidence then that a very active and maybe a person who does a lot of sport requiring power and use of muscles will get no extra benefit having a good protein intake to there diet?

To be fair I think different mixes of protein and carbs etc suit different people even if all are active. I guess it’s about experimenting and finding something that works. There’s nothing like a good debate though.

When I’m training I take a sports multivitamin and glutamine to aid muscle recovery. Also get enough carbs in and try and eat protein with every meal.

This falls apart when I am not training though (am injured at the moment)

Only ‘supplements’ that are really worth bothering with are fast acting carbs (can get from food anyway) A broad spectrum multi vit and glutamine.

Protein powder is convenient as are fast acting carb drinks and the like, but not really necessary.

Beyond elite endurance atheletes there is no benefit to a high protein diet

Most of us eat 10X as much protein as we need

Have you forgotten to take your medication today? What utter bollox.

Seth – most of us do eat far more protein than we need. exercise only increase your protein needs slightly so you still have a surplus.

Seriously – this is a myth that you need a high protein diet to build muscle.
Kudos – its true. Find some data that shows its not. maybe not ten timnes as much as we need but its an excess for most of us.

i would have thought for endurance riding etc carbs are more important post ride

Well TJ I think you need to tell a lot of body builders this and they will save about 300 quid a week on high protein food supplements of protein. What you are saying is totally inane! Why would all those sports people bother taking any protein extra in there diets! Do they just do it to piss on your chips ha

I always try to minimise carbs especially in “recovery shakes” usually just whey protein for me. This is because it is so bloody easy to eat carbs anyway, go to the supermarket and they are in almost every ready meal en-masse. Refined carbohydrates are rubbish. Really there’s plenty of healthy carbs in fruits and vegetables, more than enough to suit our daily requirements. When resting I think fat is a better source of energy anyway.

While we’re on the subject I can highly recommend meals based around veg, meat and legumes (beans). 1/3 the plate of each. Nom nom nom…

Yes Post ride carbs for cycling then a good intake of protein after the carbs. If you were doing more pure strength sports then Protein is needed straight after more than carbs. Though carbs are still important but the protein should be taken for primary recovery. Its not often a good idea to mix carbs and protein straight after too as most of the protein will not get used as efficiently when there is an equal or higer amount of carbs mixed in with it. Better to just stick to one or the other and take them with gaps.

Seriously – this is a myth that you need a high protein diet to build muscle.
Kudos – its true. Find some data that shows its not. maybe not ten timnes as much as we need but its an excess for most of us.

I cannot believe some of the nonsense that is spoken on this forum. I bet you have never manipulated your body fat or level of muscularity to any significant degree. Until you have some actual experience of what you are talking about I cannot take you seriously. I’m out.

Too many armchair experts on here…..

Gorilla’s are vegetarians, as are elephants

Kudos / seth.

neither of you have shown me any decent data on this yet 🙂 As I said earlier for elite endurance athletes and others at the edge high protein diets may make a marginal difference but its simply not needed for most of us – in the context of the OP

Seth – recovery drinks are usually specified to be 4:1 carbs to protein as this is the most easily assimilated way backed by (IMO dubious) research but thats the sports diet consensus right now – this is a different issue to protein for muscle building however.

this is really odd advice

Its not often a good idea to mix carbs and protein straight after too as most of the protein will not get used as efficiently when there is an equal or higher amount of carbs mixed in with it. Better to just stick to one or the other and take them with gaps.

I cannot believe some of the nonsense that is spoken on this forum

i can.

(obviously not the spurious rehashed content but the sheer amount of bullshit)

So the best recovery drink is actually a tuna sandwich with no tuna now?

Just go on google scholar and enter a few relevant phrases and I’m sure you’ll see that increased protein can have great positive effects for the ordinary man as well as athletes/ body builders. Literally hundreds of peer-reviewed papers for all to see.

I’ll declare my bias. I’ve been trying to loose weight for a while through dieting and exercise but found that increasing my protein intake greatly increased the speed and which I lost weight/ grew muscle (funny that). I’d say that was a benefit?

Just saying ‘increased protein can have positive effects’ is a bit miss leading though isn’t it. Increased to what level and for what reason?

It’s widely excepted that other than full time athletes or body builders there is no need (or point) in having a daily protein in-take of over 1.2 – 1.5g per kilo of body weight a day, if/when trying to maintain an ideal racing weight/strength ratio.

And this is actually a level of protein lower than the majority of people actually have in their diets.

And this…

Post ride carbs for cycling then a good intake of protein after the carbs. If you were doing more pure strength sports then Protein is needed straight after more than carbs. Though carbs are still important but the protein should be taken for primary recovery. Its not often a good idea to mix carbs and protein straight after too as most of the protein will not get used as efficiently when there is an equal or higer amount of carbs mixed in with it. Better to just stick to one or the other and take them with gaps.

is wrong.

there is no need (or point) in having a daily protein in-take of over 1.2 – 1.5g per kilo of body weight a day

I would say this is pretty high anyway. I’m 74kg and I’m about that level through consciously trying to eat more protein in my diet and through using whey powders every now and then. From what I’ve read people wanting to increase their musculature should aim for 1+g per kg per day, not just your average Joe.

Phil w I think you need to get up to date with modern sports nutrition mate. Then you can claim with such a passion that we are all wrong.

I guess Jay Cutler and a whole host of top body builders must not know how to build muscle too phil. So what do you think they take after a serious hard workout? Do you think they take loads of carbs! they take protein as protein is absorbed better without complex carbs. Though there is some research into if adding a good a amount of simple carbs can speed up protein intake into the muscles and with that help the muscles adsorb the protein. I can see where they are going with this

Phil a lot of trainers are starting to suggest diets which favour protein and even fat over carbs, and steer away from steady-state cardio for fat-burning.

The idea is to stimulate muscle development, which in turn helps burn fat. For the typical person who wants to tone up and drop fat, it works pretty well. The protein really helps stave off hunger, which in turn makes it easier to stay off empty carbs. As for a competitive XC racer or roadie, they might end up coming out too heavy.

Joe Friel has quite a good book about the Paleo diet for Endurance Athletes.

Shandy – Yes, i would agree, increasing the protein in the protein/carb ratio does have a place for some people as one method of losing weight. And using it to help stay away from empty carbs is very useful.
This is really a separate to the protein for recovery issue, which is where the 1.2g thing comes in as it is assuming you are not trying to change your weight.

I think you need to get up to date with modern sports nutrition mate. Then you can claim with such a passion that we are all wrong.

Firstly I’m not claiming that you are wrong with any passion. I had typed out a reasoned response to your post and then after rereading some of your earlier posts decided you probably wouldn’t be interested in listening.

Secondly, I’d never claim to be an expert in nutrition but do have access to some excellent resources & people who are. Though they would point out that it’s still an area that is continually developing with new information and ideas, but yes I am ‘up to date with modern sports nutrition’ as you put it. At least enough to stand by what I said about your post.

EDIT: And as a note, dietry intake for bodybuilders is completely different to the point of being irelephant when compared to diets for endurance athletes.

So the best recovery drink is actually a tuna sandwich with no tuna now?

A lot of body builders liquidise their tuna & then drink it