Following on from the Dual control thread
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/dual-control-levers-experiences
what are peoples experiences with RR rear mechs (where the mech naturally springs up the block to the bigger sprockets).
I've always used "normal" ones.
How are RR mechs, specifically in really gritty / muddy conditions?

They have exactly the same issues at "normal" rear mechs, only reversed.

I personally think they are a much better design than conventional mechs…mainly down the fact they use the spring tension to help shift the chain to a larger cog – where any assistance to shift the chain is a good thing…the conventional mech looses out on this ability as it takes much less effort to shift a chain to a smaller cog (at the rear) so the spring is wasted.

I did have both bikes using RR but when I got my new bike (and the old one sold) I'm now riding with one of each…the RR is my preferred mech but it's on the biek that hardly gets used.

Really not sure why Shimano stopped making them as I really do think it is how all rear mechs should work.

If you don't set your cable stops properly then when your cable stretches it dumps the chain between the cassette and spokes. 😳

With regards to mud and grit though there was no difference in performance between my xt 'right' and 'wrong' mechs.

Very useful sofatester, NOT! Im fully aware of the mechanical differences, but im after some real world opinions on how they compare in use.
Hi Dick! Still on CVR4?
Im guessing in use the shifter levers are reversed?

Running a low normal (the correct term, I think you'll find) on one bike and its no better or worse than the top normal on my other bike. Can't get it Shadow, which is a shame as the Shadows have better cable routing.

I have rapid rise on all my bikes, much prefer the shifting to conventional mechs…. and yep, up is down and down is up on the shifters but I prefer it that way around !

did someone say shimano have stopeed making them ? <bugger>

Kev

I think Shimano have stopped making them as I can't find any now…and I'm sure I read something somewhere at the end of last year that they were dropping them due to people not getting on with them (which I don't understand).

Low normal was the new name for it, but when it was first out it was called Rapid Rise…obviously Rapid Rise was too difficult to grasp so the much easier name of low normal was introduced…and thus confined this rather smarter shifting technique to the grave!

Bigyinn, not been on CVR4 for months…as much as I was glad to get rid of the car (purely down to running costs), I'm really missing it and I don't think the way I got rid of it was the right way…I've stopped visiting as I just end up wishing I had another one!

Actually just checked the Shimano website – you can still get Rapid Rise…well at XT level anyway – RD-M770-GS (short cage) and RD-M770-SGS (long cage) – right I need to find a way to wrap my existing shadow XT round a rock or something so I have to buy a new one…and I'll myself a short cage version (which I think will work fine with my XT set up on the Mount Vision as short cage looks meaner than long cage!)

I much prefer rapid rise, with rapid fire shifters. It just feels more natural to me.

As for them not being made any more….

I bought a XT M770 from LBS 6 weeks ago and CRC has Deore and 2 flavours of both XT and XTR in rapid rise in stock…..

Shifters aren't specific though…you hit the big button and it shifts to the smaller cog on RR but on normal it shifts to the bigger cog…you can swap mechs over without affecting the shifters (in terms of the shifter will work with both types of mech but the operation is slightly different between the mechs).

I've obviously got mixed up with something else that isn't being carried out as now I'm looking Rapid Rise mechs are still available (which is a good thing!)

Rapid Rise I like mine with my dual controls. I have no reason to fault the setup what so ever. Then again I had no reason to fault a standard mech and rapid fire shifters. For the riding I do, the rapid rise and dual controls has the edge. If I wanted a more free ride style bike I would go for a standard mech and rapid fire shifters.

If you don't set your cable stops properly then when your cable stretches it dumps the chain between the cassette and spokes.

As can your thumb with conventional mechs.

I like the shifting. I find it more robust than conventional. Coupled with the push/pull shifters its easier to shift down through the gears when coming into climbs imo.

It also seems to eliminate mashed shifting – which can only be a good thing for your drivetrain.

Bigyinn, with regards

How are RR mechs, specifically in really gritty / muddy conditions?

Sofa does have a point, ie bugger all difference.

RR is a brilliant idea, which I'm sad to see hasn't had shadow style treatment yet (cos that cable routing is much better) and will be very sad if DB is right and they stop doing it.

RR means very smooth shifts under power, going up hill just click the trigger and you get a nice clean shift. You can do the same with normal mech but you have to concentrate on pushing the thumb lever just right to engage to the next cog without a big crunch of gears – not what you want when trying to concentrate on line and breathing. Also if your heading downhill and see an uphill coming you can "load" several downshifts into the mech (without pedalling) so next time you pedal it will shift a load of gears at once – not possible with normal shifting.

I've only ever used RR, came in handy once when I damaged the cable riding – the gears automatically dropped into the largest cog which enabled me to continue riding albeit with a slightly higher cadence 😉

Again I like rapid rise like people say seems the spring helps you more where you need it.

But also seems to make more sense with trigger shifters.

Now on both sides the bit you click with you finger makes riding easier and the bit you push with you thumb makes it harder.

Seems more intuitive to me