Good stuff on this thread.

I’m hoping to better than last year on about 4-5hrs a week. Just done lots of steady rides recently, but will have to start some intervals soon I think. I’ve got loads to learn like you Crosshair, but that makes xc really interesting. My starts are usually awful and I only reel folk back after about 1 lap, so that needs dealing with. I have a habit of eating the wrong foods at lunch, so need to knock that on the head right now. Hilly courses suit me, flat ones less so, so I need to work on speed on the flat and over roots.

And, like most of us, need to balance all this with varying workloads, family etc. See you at the next Gorrick!

Crikey, you don’t want to be learning skills off me, you’ll go backwards, probably into a tree!

You were the only “competing” MTB person on STW I could think of that Ive ridden with. And my “learning” phrase was generic – there’s a lot of people who’ve learned about bike weights etc from you.

But also as I mentioned, just riding along. Remember that last run down Swinley blue with a nice bit of pace? Although that was sub-race pace, it was a good effort and was useful for me after to see where my HR was (sub threshold which was good) but probably for LocalHero94 to see just how much work he needs to do / his knee problem has affected him – and good on him for starting a TR program based on that experience soon after!

Its also good to watch others lines and techniques, every day is a school day.

My favourite xc race ever was an epic dual for 13th place in a Southern xc masters class.

You were the only “competing” MTB person on STW I could think of that Ive ridden with. And my “learning” phrase was generic – there’s a lot of people who’ve learned about bike weights etc from you.

Aye, I’m only joking! I am pretty awesome, I know.

[rambling anecdote] I remember having my first moment akin to Rorschach when I started doing ok. It was the first Southern XC in 2007, at Mapledurham. I’d done a few races in the preceding months, and done nothing spectacular at all. Got a decent start (as usual), but stayed out front. Looked back halfway up the first climb and I had a significant gap over the entire field. Best feeling ever. Led for 2.75 of the 4 laps, then completely blew up, think I forgot to drink anything. Finished 15th! Knew I had the fitness then, and it’s interesting looking back at events I was targeting (the NPSs) that my results steadily improved through the year, whilst other races (notably Southerns) were clearly sacrificial, and results never as good.[/rambling anecdote]

That was on the back of using a coach, personally for me one of the big things that a coach provides is motivation – I know what I should be doing, but when I get home if I can’t be bothered to go and do a turbo session or whatever there’s no one telling me that I have to go and do it. If you don’t struggle with motivation then that’s less of an issue obviously!

Its also good to watch others lines and techniques, every day is a school day.

With that in mind, I reckon you could carry a lot more speed into and through corners. When I followed you at Swinley this was your weakness IMO.

Obviously your bike was shit and hindering you but that goes without saying, right… 😉

With that in mind, I reckon you could carry a lot more speed into and through corners. When I followed you at Swinley this was your weakness IMO.

I’d agree with that – I did notice that I put gaps into you on the singletrack without really pushing, and I’m not brave in the corners!

Apologies, this is at risk of becoming your own personal improvement thread Kryton, stop hogging the interweb. Crosshair, if I knew you (and I’m sure we’ve at least seen each other at a race) I’d do the same for you!

Kryton, stop hogging the interweb

🙂

I’d agree with that – I did notice that I put gaps into you on the singletrack without really pushing, and I’m not brave in the corners!

Much overlooked this. Find bits of single track to train on and session them over and over again. Try and be smooth and carry speed. You can find loads of time.

Kryton, stop hogging the interweb

😀

With that in mind, I reckon you could carry a lot more speed into and through corners. When I followed you at Swinley this was your weakness IMO.

I’d agree with that – I did notice that I put gaps into you on the singletrack without really pushing, and I’m not brave in the corners!

There are reasons for that, which I won’t self flagellate about here, but overall I have a nervous disposition which leads to a inerrant mistrust of tyres/grip in the bends, which means I tend to backoff/drag the rear brake and then have to work back up to the rider in front. You may remember me stating at the beginning of the day I felt a bit nervous on the “polished” surface.

Much overlooked this. Find bits of single track to train on and session them over and over again. Try and be smooth and carry speed. You can find loads of time.

Yes, I need improve that and carry more speed/burn less energy.

But a good example to the OP about how 1 ride with a good rider (and Teasel 😉 ) can help you.

Yes, I hate the polished/off camber stuff, and I guess it was more the faster, ginger berms I was thinking of, more than the pebbly bits.

How do you deal with the middle lap limbo? I can focus pretty well on the first and last lap, but my mind tends to go walkabout in the 2nd/2nd and 3rd laps.

The biggest gain for me came after following a periodised training plan. cannot tell you how satisfying it was to go from DNF last year, to top 3rd the next year in the same race! It’s not a podium, but it’ll do for now.

For a novice to racing and riding I found endurance training to be of great benefit. Just knowing your body can bash out a 2 hour ride with no problem helps a lot. Becoming competitive over those 2 hours is another order of magnitude harder I reckon.

Njee20- Yeah, we have definitely seen each other without realising it- I know you’ve lapped me a few times 😉

Yak- that first race we met at, I knew it was you ahead but I couldn’t push any harder to bridge the gap 😀 Then, at XCRampage, it was certainly friendly fuel for the fire knowing we’d be racing. I can tell from my HR trace when you had your puncture 😉 😀

My best performances have definitely been when friends have been racing too 😀

Loads of cool stuff in here thanks all.

What I attempt to do is start well to avoid lap one bottle necks, then ease back, then push for the finish. What happens in practice is I hang with the front group for too long, race too many people in the middle then finish up with no reserves.
Out of 6 races made up of CX, XcRampage and Autumn Gorricks, I lost one place at all of them to people who passed on the last lap.

I need to improve pretty much across the board- my weight, my FTP, aerobic and muscular endurance, pacing, hydration and tech skills all need work.

Keep it coming 🙂

ginger berms

Eh? Berms in general I’m just crap at, you should have seen me ride over the top of one at Afan… 😐

How do you deal with the middle lap limbo?

When I did Beastway last year, I carried a bottle only half full but with Caffiene High 5 in it. I’d neck it about 3/4 through the race and it really perked my up physically and mentally for the remainder.

A feeling of losing focus in the middle is fairy natural I think and isn’t necessarily a problem. You are focused at the start to get position and in the middle of the race you are at a pace that feels comfortable (or you’ll blow up) often the last lap push is really just fatigue setting in, you’re maintaining the pace you’ve been at all race but having to work harder to maintain it (this is more obvious when running where pace is more consistant, you can see your HR increase gradually over the course of a marathon for the same pace). On the occasions that I’ve been at the sharp end in races there’s usually a fair bit of chatting going on between riders after the initial charge of the line, It goes quiet when someone puts a dig in though.

Of course if you are slowing down in the middle then the only answer is focus more! Splitting laps into sections and riding to splits can help, or focusing on consistent gear selection for a particular climb. Having someone to chase helps me massively, out of sight out of mind is a huge factor for me.

I feel like I’m just sitting at threshold in the middle lap and there’s a bit more to give, but I just can’t be bothered to find it. I then start pushing to reel more people in on the last lap, but I’ve got no idea if they’re stragglers from another category, or people in my own race!

Some good stuff in here though. I never thought it was possible to be competitive with just 10 hours a week at the sharp end of Masters/Elite!

I am that guy that passes you on the last lap – I can’t start any harder than I do and often get faster lap-on-lap to the finish.
I’ve worked on this for twenty-odd years and it’s made no difference, my race nearly always pans out the same. Sometimes I catch everyone and ride off to a glorious win, sometimes (if it’s a dry fast race) a group gets away and works together so I roll in having ridden in no-man’s land for the whole time.

So if you’re one of the lads who worries about starting fast and fading, be aware that other people worry about the opposite 😀

mid lap lull is always a struggle, but the biggest problem I have after lap 1, and this is no joke, is remembering what lap I’m on!

Why I find it so difficult to count to 5 I have no idea, but I always find myself questioning what Lap I’m actually on!

After the lap 1 battle to get ahead of the bottle neck, I try and focus on getting set into my rhythm, it helps for focus on sections of the course at a time, and not the whole lap (this is probabyl why I forget what lap I’m on come to think of it…), section by section, slowly-slowly-catchy-monkey style. I find that way I’m faster as I’m only paying attention to riding that section well, not where I am in the race or relative to others.

Once on to the 3rd or 4th lap that’s when you’ll start running into back markers from other categories so the focus shifts into planning overtakes as well, keeps my mind sharp and makes me start thinking further ahead in the lap again.

by last lap(s) I’m normally fairly aware of what level of go I have left in me and will start planning where I’m going to put those last drops of effort in to try and make up any ground I can, it’s at this point I’ll be making the decision whether to chase anyone ahead in sight or if I need to do anything special to keep ahead of people on my wheel.

Garmin with lap counter on the home screen 😉

as been said above there is some good stuff on this thread but ive just totted up my hours and im a bit shocked how little i do. are you folks managing 10+ hours p/w in season? or is this offseason training?

allowing for real life i can fit a couple of commutes, a mtb ride, a run and some strength work around racing (cx) in season, its 5-6 hours at best with 2 hours (at most) on race day and i wouldn’t want to fit anything more in.

my rambling anecdote – for me racing gets fun when 2 things align 1) you are fit enough to ride hard but have some in the tank for attacks and 2) you luck out on a group of people are the same fitness as you, even if you are racing for 1st or 17th place its fun to ride in a group and you attack, they bring you back, they attack, they bring you back and so on. Judging the good spot to go where you’re strong, getting traffic between them and you. Ive had many races where ive finished higher and had less fun as ive been stranded on my own timetrialing home for 2-3 laps.

allowing for real life i can fit a couple of commutes, a mtb ride, a run and some strength work around racing (cx) in season, its 5-6 hours at best with 2 hours (at most) on race day and i wouldn’t want to fit anything more in.

Thats me. I get 3-4 hours (2or3 x Turbo + 1 outdoor thrash) in during the week, and a 4h or so club ride on Sundays.

I am doing 10structured hours a week during the winter but it’s pretty relentless and requires a nearly unsustainable level of selfishness.

Does any one reckon you could fit in a hour of footy a week round a decent MTB training plan.

I used to do a few footy games a week but I can only make one a week now.

However the footy really tends to leave me with a lot of muscle strains and tired out compared to running/cycling + injuries occur alot more often.

Does anyone who gets any decent results in MTBing play any contact sports on a weekley basis.

Does any one reckon you could fit in a hour of footy a week round a decent MTB training plan.

It’d be ideal. Give it the beans during footie, cover the pitch as much as you can and you’ll get a great sprint workout that should really help your biking. It’d be just like the sprint intervals I was doing for a while which made an incredible difference to me.

Only downside is risk of injury.

However the footy really tends to leave me with a lot of muscle strains and tired out

Well yeah – that means it’s doing you good 🙂 Schedule a rest day or a longer slower ride the following day.

Used to nearly 20 years ago when I was playing rugby at uni. Might not fair so well now. 😆

The key to that would be to ensure that you do your Z6/7 workouts the other side of the week to the footy, and do a very easy spin the day after.

My race experience is mostly crits and track rather than xc (i think xc will be different because the group / drafting dynamics are much different)

Assuming everyone is fairly well matched in terms of training and fitness and the seeding / category is working as it should, then there are still going to be big variations in what ones strengths and weaknesses are.

There is going to be a proportion of the field where finishing in the main group is going to be an achievement. There is also another, smaller proportion who have a good sprint and can hope to podium if it comes down to a sprint. In the middle of this there are alot of riders that are fit enough to finish in the group but they cant sprint, yet many of the riders are content to sit in and wait for the sprint. A large part of this is the fear of making too big an effort, not being able to sustain it and then going out the back of the main group when they get caught.

Unless you are a rider head and shoulders above the competition, then most of us probably have one hand to play. For some this is a sprint finish, for others it should be trying to make a selection before that. It probably wont work, but its good training trying plus it is more fun being active in the race. Trying something and failing and finishing off the back of the main group as a result ultimately feels more satisfying than finishing the race in the main group in 30th place and feeling like you have something still in the tank!

Whoop whoop! Very proud of my 5th place at Gorrick Spring 1 today- mainly because I managed a negative split for once. I didn’t get it by pacing better either, I got it by burrying myself on the last lap. Very satisfying.