http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00y37gk/Posh_and_Posher_Why_Public_School_Boys_Run_Britain/

anyone see this? Are grammar schools really the answer?

Kneecapping is the answer

Retreating to orbit and nuking from space is the answer. Or just let them carry on as they are and eventually the diminishing gene pool will screw them right up – ah this might have already happened.

I found James Blunt’s mum’s defence of her son hilarious.

My son James Blunt, who is hugely appreciated worldwide, receives harsh criticism here and we have, rather sadly, been aware that it is because of his background.

No, it’s not cos of his background, it’s because he’s rubbish! 😆

Public Schools serve only to perpetuate the Class System, and have no place in a truly democratic egalitarian society.

These public school posh prats run Britain because we let them!

VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE……………..please!

Vote for who? They’ve all bin to Public School, near enough!

Aye – you could be right there! Sad state of affairs running the affairs of state.

When we say public school do we mean any fee paying schools? I didn’t go to one of the top ones but we did play Eton Fives. I left at 16 as didn’t really fit in however looking back I like the fact we live in a free enough society for them to exist.

I like the fact we live in a free enough society for them to exist.

It’s not ‘free’ though is it. You have to pay to go to public school…

The main issue I have with public schools is that the standard of education offered by many of them is somewhat higher than the vast majority of state schools. I’d like to see kids from all backgrounds enjoy the level of education they deserve, rather than the highest standards being limited to those with the means to pay for them. That is an exclusive and socially divisive system which prevents many people from getting the education they deserve, and subsequently the higher positions within their respective careers.

Level the playing field, then we’ll see who’s boss….

Sicily has it’s Cosa Nostra..

We Brits.. another small island nation.. have the ‘old boys’ system and the Eton Mafia with their OxBridge underlings..

It’s just an organised crime synidicate.. however deeply ingrained and more socially acceptable it may seem to our brainwashed society.. and we are simply the unfortunate victims of it’s crimes..

Whilst I’d like education standards at state schools to be better I certainly don’t think the answer is to ban fee paying schools – impossible anyway without a revolution.

Whilst I’d like education standards at state schools to be better I certainly don’t think the answer is to ban fee paying schools – impossible anyway without a revolution.

That’ll start them off….

I would agree, though. The standard of state education needs to be improved and this won’t come about by reactionary banning and dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Drag everyone up, not down.

Grammar schools, or an equivalent is (was) the solution. I understand the objection to them, but unless you ban fee paying schools you end up where we are now, which is a lot worse than where we were.

We Brits.. another small island nation.. have the ‘old boys’ system and the Eton Mafia with their OxBridge underlings..

Maybe in some areas (and I suspect that politics might be one) but it’s not what it was 50 years ago and frankly I’ve never benefitted from it in the real world.

No doubt though this thread will bring up plenty of stupid stereotypes of braying toffs which frankly are just as stupid and I’ll informed as those held by the section of public school educated people who believe that anyone else is a poor oik.

I’m all for grammar schools btw. Basically there needs to be a fair system that means academically bright kids don’t have to go to a sh!tty comp where they’re bored out of their brains.

Drag everyone up, not down.

I agree. Allowing those from the poorest of backgrounds equal access to the likes of Harrow and Eton would be the way forward. But the current system doesn’t allow for this, and those with wealth and power want to keep things the way they are; God forbid a prole should ever be in a position to oust them from their cosy existence at the top end of society, eh?

I understand that in Norway, there are a few ‘private’ schools, yet these offer little or no academic advantages over the state schools. They seem to exist mainly for rich Norwegians to feel they enjoy some sort of exclusivity. Norwegian society struck me as one of the most egalitarian and ‘classless’ I’ve ever seen.

In France, private schools are seen as being for slightly thick rich kids who need help to get decent grades but that works because the state schools are good.

Norwegian society struck me as one of the most egalitarian and ‘classless’ I’ve ever seen.

they also make cracking movies

I’d like to see kids from all backgrounds enjoy the level of education they deserve, rather than the highest standards being limited to those with the means to pay for them.

Could say the same about healthcare or indeed any of the nicer trappings of life – cars, houses etc, the best is available to the ones with the most money.
Isn’t that an incentive to drive standards up rather than the other way round? There are plenty of people who didn’t go to public school who are doing very well for themselves, self-made millionaires etc.

Near where I grew up were three excellent private schools, regularly near the top of the league tables which offered opportunities such as Combined Cadet Force, Duke of Edinburgh, field trips, excellent sports facilities (I played Fives too, great game!).
There were also two shit comprehensives offering none of the above…

Force the comprehensives to improve standards and the demand for fee-paying schools will diminish, a self-levelling playing field if you like.

I work at one of the institutions featured in that programme. Hmm…

Force the comprehensives to improve standards

LOLOL… you WILL improve standards or it will be six of the best and running laps of the fives field before supper!

Isn’t that an incentive to drive standards up rather than the other way round?

Er, not if you don’t have the money to access such high quality services it isn’t, no. Such economic exclusivity actually leaves people feeling disillusioned and demotivated, as they can’t see how they can ever afford the best services for their kids and their families.

There are plenty of people who didn’t go to public school who are doing very well for themselves

And there are undoubtedly many, many times more who deserved the best educational opportunities, because of their own abilities, who were deprived of such a fair slice of the pie.

There aren’t many people occupying the top jobs in our society who din’t go to public school. This is a fact. Which shows that an elite continue to operate a closed cartel on such positions of power and influence, excluding all others. Which kind of makes a mockery of such ideas of democracy and equality, quite frankly.

Force the comprehensives to improve standards

Without the incentives offered in the private sector (top wages and privileges etc), and without massive investment in the state education system, how do you propose to achieve such a thing?

running laps of the fives field

*Chuckles*

Vote for who? They’ve all bin to Public School, near enough!

You really are as daft as a brush Elfinman ……..I see why you had to be sent to a private school.

If tiggs is saying vote for someone else, then he means “vote for someone else” ………get it ? IE, not someone who went to public school.

Every ballot paper in any election will include someone who didn’t go to public school, so it won’t present itself as a problem at all.

Now of course, if you don’t like candidates that didn’t go to public school, then that’s a completely different issue altogether.

no chuckling at the back or you’ll be down to see the housemaster for extra prep..

A comprehensive need not be crap. The one I went to had the best facilities of any school in Glasgow including the fee paying schools and a very high standard of teaching. Most of its intake came from Darnley Arden and Carnwdrick – some of the most deprived estates around

True comprehensives is the only way to go to produce an egalitarian equality of opportunity. A hybrid system with “parental choice” will allways work against this. Selection will always work against this. My old schools was destroyed when the bogus “choice” agenda was introduced as most of the interested parents sent their kids to the rival school which was not nearly so good but had been the old grammar. Flight of teachers followed and one of the best schools soon became a sink school with a falling roll and no 6th form.

No one won from this – everyone including the most able kids had their education diminished.

Yeah, well “force” was the wrong word to use but you get the gist of it…

/makes note not to multi-task while trying to argue on the internet.

running laps of the fives field

Mostly concrete – watch out for the step though.

Relatively small private sector in Ireland, yet, on average we’re more intelligent and better educated than Brits. Go figure.

I think any right minded person can agree that at least on some level education should be a level playing field. But it isnt, so was the programme right to suggest that grammar schools helped to improve social mobility? I think not, the narative of the programme was confused. Even Neil said that the welsh and scottish assemblies are less “posh schoolboy” dominated than the Governemnt and there are no grammar schools in Scotland or Wales whereas England still has many. Also as mentioned in the programme the problem of posh ploiticians dominating seems to me to be due to it now being a Career rahter than a calling.

I think any right minded person can agree that at least on some level we can all agree that education should be a level playing field fives court

HTH

If tiggs is saying vote for someone else, then he means “vote for someone else” ………get it ? IE, not someone who went to public school.

My point was, as you well know Ernie, that the majority of our MPs tend to have been educated at fee-paying schools, rather than at state comprehensives. People tend to vote who they feel will best represent them in Parliament. More often than not, those with the best education will rise to the top in local politics. This reflects the fact that private education is often better than state education. And that money buys you privilege.

So, instead of having a snidey snipe at me, just because you’re jealous that I live in London and not Croydon, why not use your extensive knowledge of politics and stuff to present a coherent argument as to how our education system could be improved?

Although quite why I’m arguing with an uneducated scrote like yourself is something I keep asking myself…

education should be a level playing field fives court

Rugby Fives uses a level court, Eton Fives doesn’t.

HTH. 😉

education should be a level playing field fives court

Rugby Fives uses a level court, Eton Fives doesn’t.

HTH.

you can tell I’m common as I have no idea what the hell you are talking about 🙄

I think any right minded person can agree that at least on some level we can all agree that education should be a level playing field.

Opportunity should be a level playing field. Actual education should be matched to the level of a pupil. Selection should be central.

There’s no need for negative connotations either. Selection for academic, engineering or practical streams would actually let kids do things that engage them. Much better to be a successful builder than a failed academic. The baccalaureate they’re pushing now embodies all that is wrong with education. Half of it is utterly pointless, yet it’s being held up as the ideal.

Eton Fives seems to b a game involving slapping balls with one’s bare hands… 😯

Drag everyone up, not down.

is the best way to do this not to get the people in power suffer the same education as us? I spefically include Dianne Abott in that category.
Grammar schools may be the answer[meriotocracy] but it really depends on the quality and fairness of the education offered to all – that is those that fail the entrance exam also get an appropriate high standard education suitable to their needs.

The baccalaureate they’re pushing now

the few people I have met who studied the baccalaureate (albeit in European schools) have more common sense than all the fives, rugby and footie playing school leavers that I’ve met put together..

FWIW

Eton Fives seems to b a game involving slapping balls with one’s bare hands

Don’t worry, there are gloves involved.

My point was, as you well know Ernie, that the majority of our MPs tend to have been educated at fee-paying schools, rather than at state comprehensives.

And tiggs point was, as you well know Elfinman, that MPs are only there by the grace of the electorate.

So despite what you’re saying, people are not forced to vote for public school educated MPs.

You clearly have no time for politicians who didn’t go to public school, and wouldn’t consider voting for them …….posh git.

And btw the northern part of Croydon is in the county of London, all of Croydon is in Greater London, so don’t come the, “I’m posh ’cause I live in the capital next to the arty-farty docklands” bollox with me.

The baccalaureate

well it for post compulsory education and only for people who intend to go to Uni.
What is so bad about have people enter Uni with a background including humanities, science, business. law knowledge , a language etc. You would rather they specialise from school immediately into either arts or sciences WHY? You do realise that at this age students have specialised into the things you suggest as well dont you?