old ones that is!!

After 6.5 yrs ownership the old 330d sport needs changed 13yrs old and 202K miles. I have a saloon but really need a tourer for bike and dinghy and dog stuff. I like beemers but im a tight git when it comes to motors.

The car I want is the 330d sport with sub 80K miles but getting a good un under 8-10£k is looking iffy.

Question is any beemer enthusiasts on here got an opinion on 320 vs 330d sport tourers?

Whilst looking saw merc estates seem to get more for your money but im not quite at pipe and slippers yet.

any thoughts STW folks?

Merc quality nothing like it used to be especially the C class (A class pretty terrible which is a shame as it is a good bike/boat/run around). IMO thats part of the reason you are seeing strong prices for the BMW, “drive-ability” being the other

Yep BMW = to drive merc= to be driven in

I know what you want… a fully loaded E90 325i with 78k on the clock. Right in your budget as well! It is a saloon mind but does have the split folding seats optional extra (unbelievable stuff BMW).

On a more serious note I agree with the above about why you’re seeing strong values in the Beemers. They just drive better IMHO. They seem to have absolutely nailed the driving position in the 3 series and everything is where it should be.. Just my two penneth.

If you’re over 50 consider the Merc, otherwise the BMW (and no I don’t care about AMG or Brabus)

im bang on 50 so im in a quandry now 😉

Just picked up an E91 330D SE Touring last week on a 55 plate, it’s done a few miles but it’s been looked after. Used to have a 57 plate 320D as a company car a few years back too (both manuals and both SE spec).

The 2 litre is a good engine for a 2 litre diesel, driven well an E90 320D is almost as quick as the E46 330D you’re replacing. But… The engine needs working compared to the 3 litre 6… I found the 320D was the most “stall prone” car I’ve ever had, which is doubly embarrassing with the lazy start/stop button to get it going again. The 330D I have now is an absolute torque monster by comparison, pulling cleanly from very low revs. Early days yet on the economy front, but getting almost 45mpg average from the 330D so far, the 320D only used to get about 48-49mpg average (back when diesel was £1.43 a litre too!).

Until recently my dad had a 55 plate Merc E280CDI, same engine as the 320 just a lower state of tune (but his was remapped anyway), and the first of the 7spd Auto boxes. It was very smooth, very quiet, very comfortable, economical (on a run at least), but oh my god was it dull to drive! A very relaxing but ultimately joyless drive. His was the Elegance spec, all that happens when you go up to a Sportier spec is the tyre noise gets worse. His brand new E220CDI on 19’s is more of the same, except it’s now unbearably loud on the motorway and you have to shout at each other at 70!

Anyway… Couldn’t recommend a Merc in any way shape or form unless you want to fall asleep at the wheel, or it was very cheap. Beemers hold their value well, sometimes too well, but that’s cos they do everything the other luxury car makers manage to do, but they’re enjoyable to drive too…

Will be looking to get my 330D remapped soon, an extra 50hp and better economy sounds too good to pass up on!

80k is too low mileage for that price range I think, for under 10k you are looking at older cars I guess nearing 10 years old, it is very rare to find a 10 year old BMW with low mileage like that

“His brand new E220CDI on 19’s is more of the same, except it’s now unbearably loud on the motorway and you have to shout at each other at 70!”

check the wing mirrors – find a private bit of road, fold them in and drive.

if its anything like my parents E series the wing mirrors make the noise.

theirs was E350 AMG once they had the Wing mirrors changed the thing was silent on the motorway at speed….. prior to that it was unbearable rumble like tire noise.

I’ve got a 2011 C class estate. Its awesome. 7 speed semi automatic and it is the best thing I have ever driven. Done almost 90k in it (had 4k when I bought it)
Its pretty silent at all speeds.
Never had a BMW but driven loads of 3’s and a couple of 5’s. Rather have the Merc.

and the first of the 7spd Auto boxes. It was very smooth, very quiet, very comfortable, economical (on a run at least), but oh my god was it dull to drive! A very relaxing but ultimately joyless drive.

Must have been awful for him not to have that elusive “engagement” that you get with a Beemer 🙄

I had an all too brief flirtation with an ageing E-Class estate, 300TD. It was cavernous, it was, despite its age, a joy to drive, it was cheap to buy, it was ridiculously expensive to maintain.

I’ve owned and driven more cars than is possibly good for me over the years and I’d have another E-Class estate in a heartbeat if my lifestyle permitted.

Depends if you enjoy driving or a car is something to get you from A-B

I’d offer up the previous 535d touring sport if you can get hold of a decent well serviced one. I’ve had two in the past, 1st i put 176k on and the 2nd 260k on. Both full service history at Beemer and well looked after. A few wear marks in the boot area and back of seats (I used to chuck yacht/dinghy/windsurfing gear in the back) and these cars just pulled like a train and were very excellent cars.

I say IF you can find a decent one, this version..

What “enjoy driving” means will vary from person to person, surely. My last 10 years of cars have been merc, merc, jag, merc. I’ve enjoyed driving them all, but my least favorite was the jag. The merc v6 diesel engine is sublime, IMO.

I’ve got an e46 330i touring which I’m chopping in for a new 320d tourer (x drive).
I test drove the c class (AMG spec) and would have been very happy with it, had I not then tested the 320. BUT tbh, there is very little between them in practical terms. Toss a coin! Or buy my 330i 🙂

I had a 318d Tourer for 3 yrs as Company car and chose it over the equivalent Merc as it was a nicer place to be. It was replaced early 2013 with a 520d Tourer which is even nicer in every way 🙂 I’d imaging the 3.0l engined ones would be rather nippy 🙂

I bought an E61 330D Tourer in late June.

I’ve not driven many other ‘luxury’ cars so can’t comment too much on comparisons but I do like this car 🙂

Mid range acceleration (well from any speed/engine revs really) is amazing.

Superficial I know, but the use of italics on the dials of Mercedes-Benz would prevent me from owning one. Category A font crime.

Are these things *that* good?

Our two sister in laws have 3-series estates.

One has 2012 car, with 80k on clock, cost £16k. It ate it’s DMF clutch a fortnight out of warranty.
One has 2005 car, with 160k on clock, cost £9k three years back. It is doing the usual diesel engine thing of needing DMF clutch/DPF/heavy tyre wear/bearings wearing out/two breakdowns in three years.

We just bought a one owner, 30k, SEAT estate for £6.5k, the Leon was another 1-2k – so half the BMW price.

Will my SEAT last half as long as the BMW’s? I would hope not – as it has the same running gear as my last couple of VW’s, and should therefore do us a decade / 100+k on top of what it has now.

I know they feel nice, I know they are bolted together well, but really? Are we in ‘cool T5’ territory?

Are we in ‘cool T5’ territory?

It would certainly appear so

driving style reflects alot in DMF failures IME matt.

Dumping the clutch and wheel spinning the torquy diesel will stress. Or simply choosing too high a gear for the speed in the name of economy hurts the DMF badly – and i see that alot.

The second BMW is just old and is seeing old car failures – things dont last for ever.

driving style reflects alot in DMF failures IME matt.

30 mile commute each way, each day to Ipswich, with small child on board by a lady who screamed when she first commented how her old mini cooper ‘wasnt very fast’, so I drove for a while to show how fast it actually was if the right foot was extended…
But I agree, and you cannot tell the previous owner.

The second BMW is just old and is seeing old car failures – things dont last for ever.

As is my point – they only last as long as most other cars it seems – and are no more reliable, therefore you are paying double the price for a car that is ‘nice’…? (they are nice, I am just not convinced that nice…)

im no bmw fan but if i was in the market for a car to spend alot of time in – ie if id taken on a job with too long a commute or an on the road salesman etc id probably be looking to choose between a merc and a bimmer of some flavour as the interiors are far superior places to spend alot of time than ANY vw derivitive /vauxhall/ford/french car ive had the pleasure of driving for extended periods.

Great discussion guys thanks. It kind of confirms what I was thinking. I do enjoy beemers because of the directness of the drive. Any merc I have driven was nice comfortable and great for.motorways but I drive in areas with plenty drivers roads not going mental just enjoying the ride. So I will stick with the beemers. The big toss up is between a) 3litre vs 2 and b) sport vs standard now can’t afford 335 which would bebideal. Re dmf agree itsnndriving style.I got to 180k before.I needed to replace it only because friction plates wore out

I’ve gone 320D Touring -> C250 Cdi Estate -> 330D xdrive Touring

The C250 didn’t handle as well as the 320D and the 6 speed box was sleepy but its engine more than made up for that. Its probably a nicer place to be on a long motorway journey than a 3 series. My misses has it now and I still enjoy driving it. Unfortunately the C250 can now only be had with awful sports suspension but you might be able to get a used one with standard suspension.

I think since you’re used to 250 bhp and 550 Nm torque going to a 320D is going to seem like a backwards step- its not even much more economical than the 3 lire diesel. The standard suspension on the 330D is excellent, soaks up the bumps but does not wallow. You have to be really pressing on at silly speeds before you’d think you needed the firmer damping of sport suspension.

Will my SEAT last half as long as the BMW’s? I would hope not – as it has the same running gear as my last couple of VW’s, and should therefore do us a decade / 100+k on top of what it has now.

It is a bit like buying bikes, a perfectly acceptable bike can be had for £600 but most of us own bikes of 3 times that. It doesn’t mean the cheaper bike will last 1/3rd of the time, its just a nicer bike made of better quality components. Similar concept with cars.

Fair point.
I am a tight arse. 😉

Merc Vito,
While your not looking for a van I’ve tried to download a link for Top Gears Speed Week Hero.
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/speed-week/mercs-vito-van-tgs-speed-week-hero

they are nice, I am just not convinced that nice…)

Yes. The number of boring and bland looking BMW 1’s on the road never ceases to amaze me. People seem so desperate for the badge. I saw some small BMW mpv/raised a bit/off road wannabee thing in a car park the other day and it was the most non descript car I have seen for some time.
My mate works for Land Rover and worked for Vauxhall for years. He claims there are few “bad” quality cars around. The majority of mainstream cars are built to a similar quality. Any consistently poor cars would disapear quickly.

Oi, i’ve just bought a BMW 1 series!! Yes its isn’t the most spectacular looking of cars, but I wanted something a bit different from the usual Focus/Leon/Golf/A3 etc. dross which to me are every bit more boring than a 1 series and then some more. Overall i’m pretty happy with it and it has turned me from a BMW ‘hater’ (well not that strong but not keen on the whole BMW thing) into being impressed with the car. As expected it drives very well (though I still think my Focus MK1 is a better drive – the whole rwd ultimate drivers car thing is a bit overdone) and the quality of the interior is very good, but suffers from being a bit bland and boring, but all the other options in this category are equally so. Cars in this category are all pretty bland and boring in my view.

My SMax is due for a change in 18 months to 2 years and i’ll be choosing between a 5 series 530d or an E class with the v6 diesel. I’m more of a merc man but the 530d comes with a spectacular reputation so we’ll see when the time comes.

Whenever I go over to Germany with work (relatively often) the cab companies use generally Mercs, BMWs, Audi (a8) and VW (Phaeton).

As a passenger, I think the Mercedes are by far the nicest cars to be driven around in. This week been in a few new E-class Mercs and they are really nice.

I am getting old though!

Yes. The number of boring and bland looking BMW 1’s CARS on the road never ceases to amaze me

Its rare to see a modern car that doesnt look generic cars scaled up and down to suit size in a carpark full of cars…..

even my mrs who couldnt give two hoots about cars so long as it starts and stops noticed it when i parked the landy in a row of euroboxes……. all the others just looked the same – except the original mini cooper on the end of the row and my landy.

Well that is a reflection of the fact that over decades car design has settled on the ideal configuration/design to cater for all the various things people want to do. But you’ve got to drive something. Given the number of mini’s gracing our streets these days they’re just as common and boring now, and nowhere near as convenient as something like a 1 series or other generic Eurobox.

The number of boring and bland looking BMW 1’s CARS on the road never ceases to amaze me

There are a number of options and not all small cars are boring. My point being why would you pay a premium for one of the most bland (IMO) ? Could it be simply that it has a BMW badge? Ditto the 3 series, well engineered but again less interesting to look at than many in its class. A badge of honour however 🙄

Surfer – so you buy are car based purely on looks, rather than whether it’s any good ? Fair enough I guess….

Surfer – so you buy are car based purely on looks, rather than whether it’s any good ? Fair enough I guess….

where did I say that? Given the choice of good looking and “good” cars around I wouldn’t choose a 1 series, or a 3 for that matter.

BMW did some research a couple of years ago and the vast majority of 1 series owners didn’t know whether their cars were fwd or rwd. Hence the new 2 series MPV (same platform as bigger minis) is fwd.

Compared to the 2 series the 1 series is automotive elegance personified!