Whereabouts in France are you off to Tony?

Biarritz mate, riding back up to either St malo or Cherbourg.
depends on the good lady and how good she is going.

My TDF is fine loaded up. I’ve not put huge weights on but with 2 full large rear panniers on I’ve gotten out of the saddle and done a little spring and it feels fine and could take more.

but with 2 full large rear panniers on I’ve gotten out of the saddle and done a little spring and it feels fine and could take more.

but as you very well know, your weight and 2 panniers is just a little bit different to my weight and 2 panniers………… 😆

How do loaded tourers feel when stood up pedalling?

I had an AWOL that felt absolutely fine when stood up pedalling. Unlike a lot of bike it’s designed to be front loaded, using something like a Tubus Tara or Specialized Pizza rack.

There’s a number of advantages: The rear of the bike can be more compliant, so comfort and pedalling efficiency are better, most tourers are overbuilt at the back to stop the panniers waggling around.

Because there’s less weight over the back wheel broken spokes/rims aren’t as likely.

It also means that even when fully loaded you can ride the bike normally, the front doesn’t lift when going uphill, you can stand up to push off from a stationary start and braking feels better. No way I’d ever use rear loading bias again!

Rode it from London to Oslo like this, it was perfect:

Interesting set up

I like a bit of stand up pedalling – either for a short burst of uphill, for some variety, and to stretch out my back a bit which can sometimes hunch over on slow grindy climbs

I don’t know much about touring bikes, but I think that Dawes Bikes (particularly the Galaxy) had a good reputation. Their current range seems to have just about every price point from basic right up to a mind-blowing expensive titanium offering.

how many days food can the awol carry in that guise + tent, clothes and cooking gear ?

I was expecting a Fargo to get mentioned at least once

I was expecting a Fargo to get mentioned at least once

pretending to be a disc trucker or ogre, and failing.

It was a 15 day trip, camped every night (apart from on the ferry) completely self sufficient. I probably had 2-3 days of food at a time, but the seatpack actually had my hammock in it (tent was in a pannier) which I only used once. If the seatpack was empty I could have gone for a week without needing to stop for supplies.

Whereabouts in France are you off to Tony?
Biarritz mate, riding back up to either St malo or Cherbourg.
depends on the good lady and how good she is going.

Following Velodyssey at all? Just did a chunk of that a couple of weeks ago…
It was crap 8)

P1060262 by Richard Picton, on Flickr

P1060394 by Richard Picton, on Flickr

P1060430 by Richard Picton, on Flickr

Rich, yes mate. up to la Rochelle, the heading to see a mate in nantes.
looks rubbish. 😀

Excellent, there’s loads of marked VTT trails when you get near to Royan and further up. Worth a play.

My vote would go for something by Dawes. You should be able to pick up a Super or Ultra Galaxy 2nd hand for a good price and they re cracking bikes. Not as versatile in terms of gravel or whatever but properly designed touring bikes.

How do loaded tourers feel when stood up pedalling?

My Arkose, which isn’t a tourer as mentioned above, is like a pile of jelly when stood up pedalling with any serious load, I avoid it like the plague. Fine with light loads, but horrific with a child on the rack and extra weight, or a couple of full panniers and a box of stuff on top

The Ridgeback feels fine stood up pedalling, whereas my London Road felt much like your Arkose.

Something that might help with your existing bike is simply stiffer tyres – i.e. Schwalbe Marathon. Flexy sidewalls aren’t great with a loaded bike imo.

I used a Salsa Vaya for a 340 mile joint last summer. I think I overloaded it at the front as it wobbled below 6mph. Don’t know whether it was the bar bag which was the final straw. Aiming to take less crap next time. I think the Vaya is more a ‘light’ tourer and a Surly Disc trucker might have coped better. Pure conjecture on my part!

How do loaded tourers feel when stood up pedalling?

It’s sort of a different technique I find. I used to act as a guide for a blind triathlete and you do the bike leg on a tandem and riding a loaded tourer standing felt similar. On an unloaded solo your body kind of stayed static and you move the bike under you to the left and right. On a loaded tourer you try and keep the bike a bit more static and you do the dancing.

Benp1, I think this is it ^
An Arkose or London Road will have a laterally stiffer frame than most steel bikes but they will feel very odd if loaded heavily at the rear only. Too much weight and inertia for most bikes to handle – if you load evenly front and rear you’d be riding more as Convert suggests and the flex feel will be quite different.

Could just take less?

I would look at the traditional touring bike companies like Dawes, Thorn (although they are very rohloff oriented), maybe Raleigh, and Spa. Stick to the specialists they have been making these bikes for years – the British Touring Bike is highly regarded throughout the world.

OP, is yr friend XL-sized by any chance?

Spa have a heftyish reduction on the M/L

 I think that Dawes Bikes (particularly the Galaxy) had a good reputation.

I had a Dawes Galaxy, bought new in 2010, and it is an amazing tourer- rock solid but super dull to ride the rest of the time. I was only doing the occasional tour so I sold it, bought something else that was more fun to use the rest of the time (Surly Troll) and put up with the noodleyness when it’s fully loaded. If I was buying again I’d consider a Surly Ogre or a Faran Fairlight

Could just take less?

well without knowing where or what the OP is doing thats a less than unhelpful statement.

Just finishing up booking up my next tour of west/north canada touching on southern alaska. Shops might be a little thin on the ground + we plan to do things other than cycle on the way so need a bit more kit than my wildcat kit will allow me to carry.

one bit of advice i bould add when buying a tourer, is take in consideration of the rider weight too.
some modern tourers are not suitable to take a full set of bags and the rider weight too.
also, alloy frames do not make a good tourer.
here is a list of some of mine from over the years.

Dawes galaxy, used for roughstuff, 10 mile timetrials and touring.
Ridgeback horizon, bought from Freewheel (remember them?) it was stolen
Cannondale T something. vile rigid torture machine. frame cracked.
Revolution explorer. far too lightweigh frame build. a good day audax bike.
2 x surly lht. 1 was a 58cm it was too small. one was a 60cm, i bent the frame falling off on ice.
2 x surly disc truckers, one was stolen, the other swapped for a ogre.
1 x genesis tdf. the jury is out.

Ton – while you have great experience of a few bikes and lots of touring I think you are probably at the extreme end of what bikes have to cope with – tall/big etc and with added loads even the strongest bikes are at their limit somewhat. A bike you might have found a little flexy might be fine with a smaller lighter person (e.g most other people!).

Hope you like the TDF, me and my brother both like ours.

thanks for the comments re stand up pedalling and jelly-like-handling when rear loaded

I’ve never toured, I’d like to but don’t have any near or mid term plans to. If I had a front rack option maybe I’d use it for local errands where I need the space to carry shopping etc. Might be better off with a cargo bike but I’m at the limit of N+1

I went to the supermarket on my arkose at the weekend. I had my daughter on the rack in a child seat, I have a pannier full of food attached to the back of the seat, and a small (fold up) rucksack attached to the pannier. Probably 25-30l worth of food (plus the bag of bagels she had on her lap). I knew it would pedal badly but it’s only a mile or so from home. The journey was fine on the move, but anything involving turning or movement meant the whole thing handled like a pig. Which isn’t straightforward when you’re on a narrow cheeky path avoiding overhanging branches and potholes. I kept stopping to put my feet down as I often couldn’t correct the wobble

Not brilliant, but also not what the bike was designed for and I’d loaded it badly so not it’s fault

I often ride with a child and carry some stuff, doesn’t work brilliantly on a normal bike. Ironically, and against all odds, it works great on a Brompton… bag up front, child inbetween on a Milian Pere, me, then either or both of a rucksack and/or carradice SQR tour

That’s all slightly off topic, but it got me thinking about stability/pedalling/fun

I should point out that while I often do it, it makes up a very small percentage of my bike miles so I just deal with the jelly handling