Good lord! I think i've just seen my next bike! Is that green one a 650b+?
It's a 650B+, 29er, 29+
Like a carbon Stache
Rear dropouts a bit of a fudge, some kind of flip chip would have been much nicer.
"It's a 650B+, 29er, 29+ "
Yea i get that,but are the wheels that are on that one in the photo... you know what i mean. 🙂
Yes please. In gold flake... 😉
Hmm. The elevated chainstay is very function over form, to put it politely.
And the colour they chose for the pics is very "old 1970s bathroom suite in a horrible rented student flat"
And the fork is hideous.
And they've put the stem from a canal barge on it.
I think I'll have one of their beautiful steel bikes instead, thanks.
Gosh, how the mighty have fallen..
Shand was, to me, a frame builder creating beautiful steel frames in the UK to customers spec. Now he's just ordering Chinese frames, slapping some 'Shand' stickers on it and trebling the price. Just capitalizing on the Shand name. Like a glorified On-One.
[img] https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0GaTtoyweDqO72B07Uk2dz_pYG-38_uyMPjnyROufh2U5Lf5q [/img]
I loved the Stoater and would have one if i could afford it. This doesnt appear to have the Shand USP other than the name on a sticker. Its a shame but i guess a generic chinese frame means more people can afford a 'Shand'. Though im no longer sure what that means....
And the colour they chose for the pics is very "old 1970s bathroom suite in a horrible rented student flat"
We just ripped one out of our new house.
Plumber said they've come back into fashion (a bit like G-plan and danish teak furniture) and he's actually installed one recently!
Gosh, how the mighty have fallen..
Shand was, to me, a frame builder creating beautiful steel frames in the UK to customers spec. Now he's just ordering Chinese frames, slapping some 'Shand' stickers on it and trebling the price. Just capitalizing on the Shand name. Like a glorified On-One.
I was about to defend Shand, but..........
Forks:
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Dropouts:
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Bend in the top tube, seatstay bridge, etc etc. Is it just a catalog frame?
Same rubbish geometry and 27.2 seatpost as well. What a strange thing for them to do. Bringing together two polar opposites of the frame building world and expecting it to wash.
Can someone prove it's a catalogue frame?
I like it, anyway.
No idea,
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More details here http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/view/161.html
Does seem an odd thing to do IMHO regardless if its a catalogue frame or not 😕
Looks like the pound isn't the only thing devaluing this week 😉
Can someone prove it's a catalogue frame?I like it, anyway.
I quite like the look of it too, but the outward appearance is the same, and the chinese frame is a year or so old now, so not like they've copied a Shand.
The geometry matches exactly, with just a couple of very tiny differences, +/- a mm here and there, like the headtube is 2mm longer, but that could be a different headset standard.
Unless there's some backstory to it, like Shand developed the frame and the factory retained the rights to the mold, like early Planet-X stuff and the factory has gotten it to market first?
100% catalog, with what looks to be no change at all.
Alibaba and Aliexpress is littered with these. The geometry is identical and all of the cable routing exists is the same. These have been available for a few years too. Nothing new or exciting, let alone innovative.
Appears to be zero thought and effort gone into this.
I rather like it but then I still have a bathroom in a very similar colour!
The one thing I'd struggle to live with though is that rear derailleur cable routing, horrible. That and the fact that unlike many of their other bikes it won't take a Rohloff.
.. and the fact you can get the same frame and fork for £400.
That's some expensive paint & decals (and I suppose CS/warranty).
They're probs just buying them from Aliexpress and repainting them 😉
I wonder how their production control compares to Evil...
Shand = "British made custom and production steel road bikes and adventure touring bikes" - so how does this work in that context.
In my view wrong on every level. It shouldn't, but its actually putting me off buying the Stoater I've had my eye on.
I'll stick with my Stache for now 🙂
In my view wrong on every level. It shouldn't, but its actually putting me off buying the Stoater I've had my eye on.
If selling a boatload of these makes a Stoater cheaper for me, then I am all for them 🙂
post deleted
Bah, ninja edit 🙂
I don't have a problem if Shand was wanting to produce a series of off the peg frames in Asia to keep up with demand. It's what Jeff Jones did- and it worked. This just seems to be detracting from the brand that Shand has been building for years. People go to a handmade frame builder because it's special and you are involved in the process. This is no different from On-One. No way would I be interested in buying a Shand now.
That has to hurt when your fabois kick you in the nuts.
The people can't be lied to it seems no matter how you put make up on the pig.
I don't have a problem if Shand was wanting to produce a series of off the peg frames in Asia to keep up with demand. It's what Jeff Jones did- and it worked. This just seems to be detracting from the brand that Shand has been building for years. People go to a handmade frame builder because it's special and you are involved in the process. This is no different from On-One. No way would I be interested in buying a Shand now.
+1
If he'd had a series of "Made in Taiwan" Stoaters, Bahookies, Skinnymalinkies made in standard S/M/L sizes, in nice tubesets, for a "bit more than a Cotic" they'd sell like hotcakes.
Like Curtis did with their T45 UK made frames and 4130 Taiwanese frames. Didn't (that I noticed) devalue the UK brand, but got a lot of people on Curtis bikes.
Those are the forks I bought for my Pact 🙂
I wonder how many some of these Chinese companies would sell if they got their marketing act together.
[b]This[/b]
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[b]vs this[/b]
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I just feel sorry for people that don't read these kinda threads and buy one thinking they're getting something a bit more, well "unique" 😐
It's a bit..
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If he'd had a series of "Made in Taiwan" Stoaters, Bahookies, Skinnymalinkies made in standard S/M/L sizes, in nice tubesets, for a "bit more than a Cotic" they'd sell like hotcakes.
Big +1 for this. I'd have a skinny.
I like it. Nice lines. Does anyone really think a carbon frame for £1000 would ever be handmade in the UK? Of course it's a far-Eastern frame.
.. and the fact you can get the same frame and fork for £400.
That's some expensive paint & decals (and I suppose CS/warranty).
£480 according to the link above, but the $/£ has dropped a bit recently! Add VAT, and a god paint job is going to be £250 or so, and it doesn't look too expensive any more, especially as you're also buying a UK company to moan at if anything goes wrong.
. Does anyone really think a carbon frame for £1000 would ever be handmade in the UK? Of course it's a far-Eastern frame.
Why not there's 350 quid in it.
I don't like that particular colour but the red frame on the linked page does look lovely
Why not there's 350 quid in it.
Because we don't have the manufacturing infrastructure to mass produce carbon frames, or the cheap labour.
Damnit! Still wrestling over the Stoater/Stooshie dilemma for my dream bike collection. Now this
Looks great.
Because we don't have the manufacturing infrastructure to mass produce carbon frames, or the cheap labour.
I wouldn't have thought they'd be mass produced. Isn't Hope making a UK carbon frame? And there are a few places with the expertise.
"And the colour they chose for the pics is very "old 1970s bathroom suite in a horrible rented student flat"
My nana had that colour suite in her bathroom. It smelled funny too.
How much would that frame be if you bought it direct from the Far East?
Edit: Oh.
"£480 according to the link above"
😳
£1000 is a bit of a mark-up for shipping, taxes and a bit of paint (is it painted here or there?).
How much would that frame be if you bought it direct from the Far East?
£400-£480 depending on where you look, and what the £ is doing.
Because we don't have the manufacturing infrastructure to mass produce carbon frames, or the cheap labour.
The whole point of someone like Shand is that it's a bespoke, custom & low volume producer. His whole business is based off this, not mass production. I would bet he could charge a premium over steel to offer bespoke carbon frames. I've seen the frame and fork combo for £340 listed, and that's a one off purchase. Presumably Shand will be getting a wholesale discount.. plus he's got the other perks of being a business. In other words- it would be a lot cheaper for him then what Ben's listed above.
There's quite a few low key frame builders that are building in carbon, including some FS material hybrids like Swarf- Steel front triangle and carbon rear, or Olsen Bikes that integrate a pinion gearbox.
My guess is he wanted to capitalize on the brand he's created and sell some cheapo Chinese Shand branded stuff to increase the margins. Seems to be how lots of the big guys do it with a strong fan base and loyal customers. Not sure it'll work for Shand though. The passionate cycling community is quite small and those interested in a custom bike frame are even smaller.
Shand's on this forum, I'd love for him to voice his opinion and possibly explain the direction he's taking. I'm sure someones made him aware of this thread.
If you want to see this business model turned up to 11 then take a look at the likes of Ritte. Cheaper frames with even more upcharge. Paint jobs sell bikes people 🙂
