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March against a big supermarket being built in Marple...
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Posted 9 months ago #
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Then you havethe special needs customers, who thinks that the local shop meat and veg is better than the local supermarket, its all the same cow pig and veg, or does theirs come from a lab.
WTF is that supposed to mean? Methinks you can't even begin to substantiate that statement.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Yep, that's an interesting article. I note it was written a couple of years ago, and there is thus far not a Tesco in place. Indeed Tesco withdrew their application after a year of battling with the locals....
thats good to hear, I was really just referencing the experiences of Norfolk County Council.
Posted 9 months ago # -
If people don't buy more stuff, how is the supermarket selling more stuff?
I fail to understand how the concept that supermarkets don't create more jobs, including when they are open 24 hours, is so hard for some people to get their heads round.
If a Tesco decides to open 24 hours they might well "sell" more than their competitors, but people aren't "buying" more. Someone who normally buys say 4 bog rolls a week, isn't suddenly going think, "ah, Tesco is now open 24 hours, which means I can increase my weekly supply of bog rolls to 6".
People buy what they need to buy in terms perishable goods. It doesn't matter whether it's in local shops or in out of town supermarkets, or whether the supermarket is open 14 hours or 24 hours.
And as previously stated, supermarkets use considerable less staff in relation to the volume of goods processed and sold than small local shops. That is the entire basis of the supermarket business model and how they manage to make vast profits despite selling much cheaper. As can be exemplified by the founder of Tesco Jack Cohen's credo, "stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap".
There's lots of good arguments in favour of supermarkets, but "they create jobs" isn't one of them. Supermarkets destroy jobs through increased efficiency.
Posted 9 months ago # -
spacemonkey - Member
Then you havethe special needs customers, who thinks that the local shop meat and veg is better than the local supermarket, its all the same cow pig and veg, or does theirs come from a lab.
WTF is that supposed to mean? Methinks you can't even begin to substantiate that statement.
Posted 9 hours ago # Report-Post
Certain types of people eg ones who think theyre special and have special needs that most have,like to think and are able to afford the higher prices of the local shops, and then broadcast the fact to any idiot who actually cares where they shop, that they shop local, and pay over the ods to keep a local shop in a profit as opposed to a supermarket that has cheaper prices and better stock levels, as well as usually being open latter.
EG local Netto, tomatoes, 25p a tin, local shop, 1.10 a tin, same tin, can of coke 25p supermarket, local shop 70p.
Posted 9 months ago # -
If a Tesco decides to open 24 hours they might well "sell" more than their competitors, but people aren't "buying" more. Someone who normally buys say 4 bog rolls a week, isn't suddenly going think, "ah, Tesco is now open 24 hours, which means I can increase my weekly supply of bog rolls to 6".
People buy what they need to buy in terms perishable goods. It doesn't matter whether it's in local shops or in out of town supermarkets, or whether the supermarket is open 14 hours or 24 hours.
I think this is a bit of a simplistic view TBH. If the opportunity to buy something else, other than eat what you already planned and bought arises then some folk are going to take it. I suspect that the increase in the amount of food thrown away is also related to the increased opportunities to buy more. Opening 24/7 is part of that.
There's lots of good arguments in favour of supermarkets, but "they create jobs" isn't one of them. Supermarkets destroy jobs through increased efficiency.
True - which is usually (in part) passed on to the customer in the shape of lower prices.
The theory that they will hike the prices once the small shop competition has been forced our of business has yet to be proven - I think.
Posted 9 months ago # -
What does make me laugh is when everybody moans and protests against the retailers - not many people ever seem to whinge about the guy who got the planning permission and sold them the land....
Out of interest if I was selling land that say Tesco was buying, would I actually know that I was selling it to Tesco, or would they be using an agent to make the process somewhat less transparent?
Posted 9 months ago # -
Out of interest if I was selling land that say Tesco was buying, would I actually know that I was selling it to Tesco, or would they be using an agent to make the process somewhat less transparent?
Yes, my mother is good friends with a farmer called "tesco pete". He new exactly who he was selling his land to and what is was going to be used for. Needless to say he's a bit loaded now.
Posted 9 months ago # -
I suspect that the increase in the amount of food thrown away is also related to the increased opportunities to buy more. Opening 24/7 is part of that.
Eh ?
Are you really saying that some people buy less food because a shop might shut at say 10pm, whereas if the shop was open 24 hours they would pop down at 3am and buy some food, which they will later throw away ?
So food purchase is based on how many hours a shop is opened ? Is this reflected by increased obesity when shops extend their opening hours ? And have you actually got some established research to back up your claims - or is this something which you've decided for yourself ?
I have seen no evidence that the quantity of food, cleaning products, coffee, catfood, etc, people purchase, is based on whether shops are open 24 hours or not.
I think this is a bit of a simplistic view TBH.
I think my view is a tad more realistic and true to life than yours TBH.
Posted 9 months ago # -
It all makes sense now. I realise that local shops are in the business of adding value to my shopping experience. I love the experience of buying a tin of beans for 96p at my local shop while being served by some surly old miser, but hate getting the same tin for 56p in Tesco, being served my a lovely, polite student who is not there to rip me off.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Are you really saying that some people buy less food because a shop might shut at say 10pm, whereas if the shop was open 24 hours they would pop down at 3am and buy some food, which they will later throw away ?
No, that is not what I am saying or what I typed. I'm saying folk might buy more because the opportunity is there because the SM is open all night. And because they have that opportunity some of the food they previously bought may become spoiled and have to be thrown away.
Have you never looked in the fridge / cupboard and thought I don't fancy any of that, I'll nip down the shop for something I do fancy?
I have seen no evidence that the quantity of food, cleaning products, coffee, catfood, etc, people purchase, is based on whether shops are open 24 hours or not.
Neither have I, but SMs wouldn't stay open longer if it didn't make good business sense.
Posted 9 months ago # -
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Posted 9 months ago # -
Gary glitter plus 1, and they give you clubcard points as well.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Out of interest if I was selling land that say Tesco was buying, would I actually know that I was selling it to Tesco, or would they be using an agent to make the process somewhat less transparent?
It depends. There are a number of possible scenarios:
1. The retailer, let's use Tesco as an example, buys your land. Even they have their own development arm - Spenhill Ltd - but it wouldn't be difficult for you to find out that it was Tesco.
2. A developer buys the land speculatively, knowing they can get planning approval for a retail unit, but with no firm tenant or eventual buyer. This would be the most difficult scenario in which to predict the eventual tenant, especially if it's a one off development company.
3. A developer buys the land already having an agreement with a retailer in place. Some developers do much of the same work with the same retailer. A little bit of googling can tell you a lot in this instance.
Posted 9 months ago # -
ah spenhill.. named from when tesco bought hillards in the 80's. these developers etc usually pay well over the odds for opportunities. my family's business had agreed to buy a business lock stock employees the lot for 3.5m and keep it as a going concern. on behalf of tesco someone turned up offered almost 3 times that for the land alone.. job done.
Posted 9 months ago # -
There are a number of possible scenarios:
Posted 9 months ago # -
An elderly man and woman were having a full-on argument about this outside the tea room at Roman Lakes this afternoon
I bought another carton of orange juice just so I could spectate for longer.
Posted 9 months ago # -
SMs wouldn't stay open longer if it didn't make good business sense.
Well of course they stay longer because it makes good business sense. But how does that equate into automatically assuming that they have "created" more jobs ?
Supermarkets are non-labour intensive retail outlets - that is central to the whole philosophy behind them. And until today at least, I thought everyone understood that.
Have you never looked in the fridge / cupboard and thought I don't fancy any of that, I'll nip down the shop for something I do fancy?
What, the local shop ?
I've certainly never thought at 3 in the morning, "I think I'll nip down to Tesco and do a load of shopping which I don't really need".
I distinctly remember when my Tesco went 24 hours, and no I didn't suddenly start buying more stuff, I carried buying exactly the same amount of sugar, catfood, bog paper, etc.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Of course people "buy more" when facilities are open at different hours!
The perfect example of course, being the Kebab shop - if it wasn't open, you'd stagger home from the pub, think about cooking some food but instead just fall asleep on the sofa - however with the kebab shop there, offering a world of meaty goodness - you naturally get the urge buy a kebab, its called impulse, and it works.
Do you see many kebab shops open 9am-5pm round your way Ernie?
Next thing you'll be telling us that supermarkets don't need to put chocolate bars near the checkout, because if you wanted to buy a chocolate bar, you'd go to the chocolate aisle and get one...
Posted 9 months ago # -
Well of course they stay longer because it makes good business sense. But how does that equate into automatically assuming that they have "created" more jobs ?
I'm not arguing the jobs creation line.
Supermarkets are non-labour intensive retail outlets - that is central to the whole philosophy behind them. And until today at least, I thought everyone understood that.
As, I said, I'm not arguing the jobs creation line. Why do you think I am?
I've certainly never thought at 3 in the morning, "I think I'll nip down to Tesco and do a load of shopping which I don't really need".
Doesn't need to be a load of shopping . Could just be a couple of things - which may replace stuff already bought.
Posted 9 months ago # -
I take it that ernie doesn't do much in the way of unsocial hours at work; having a Tesco open 24hrs can be useful when your local hospital doesn't have any kind of canteen overnight...
Or perhaps he goes to bed early.
Posted 9 months ago # -
So crikey, you eat more, use more bog paper, buy more pet food, etc, just because Tesco is open 24 hours ? How bizarre. And it certainly shoots my argument to pieces.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Having 4 kids at home between the ages of 19 and 24, I can assure you that 24hr supermarkets sell lots of food in the middle of the night that wouldn't have been bought otherwise -
Particularly pizzas, burgers and curry, I often get to clean up the fallout before their mother surfaces and we're all in trouble for the rest of the weekend
Posted 9 months ago # -
I'm not arguing the jobs creation line.
That was the only point I was making. Someone offered supermarkets being opened 24 hours as an example of how they "create" jobs.
Personally I like supermarkets, I particularly like Tesco, including the fact that mine is open 24 hours. But I am not going to pretend that supermarkets "create" jobs, they don't. In fact supermarkets do the opposite - they destroy jobs. Of course whether that's good or bad is another issue.
Posted 9 months ago # -
So crikey, you eat more, use more bog paper, buy more pet food, etc, just because Tesco is open 24 hours ? How bizarre. And it certainly shoots my argument to pieces
I can't help but think you are being obtuse.
No, I don't use more, or buy more just because they are open 24 hours......but what I do use or buy, I buy from the place that is open when I need it to be...
If, for the sake of argument, we accept that there is a finite amount of money available to be spent on such things, what becomes important is where that money is spent; open for 24 hours and you become the most obvious place to have said money spent within.
See?
Posted 9 months ago # -
Convenience and cost wins the argument for me. Ofc we'll all be in trouble if the supermarket chains stop competing against each other and drive up prices but can't see that happening any time soon in a big way (yeah I know the recently got caught at it :p ). If there was a local butcher close to me I'd still choose to buy meat there but there isn't which is a shame but I can live with that for the added convenience that having a large supermarket brings.
As for jobs, I'd expect them to be fairly neutral vs local shops. As for pay, you can't tell me local shops pay staff much more than minimum wage (assuming it's not family run and any profits are put into wages).
The Internet is killing the high street anyway and will continue to do so, local artisan shops will survive but random greengrocers won't and why should they? They're offering something that not many people want or are prepared to pay for, that's not a good business model.
Posted 9 months ago #
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