outcome of this he said/she said could be interesting…

http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/?public_id=43108

prosecution case reported earier v v briefly
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/court-hears-how-london-taxi-driver-used-car-as-weapon-against-cyclist-205561

Daniel Wentworth, 52, is accused of deliberately driving into cyclist James Williams, using his car ‘as a weapon’ as they crossed Southwark Bridge in central London….. Wentworth said after he accidentally pulled out in front of the cyclist, Mr Williams launched a torrent of foul-mouthed abuse, screaming: ‘What do you think you are f***ing doing?’

Is it possible that both of those things are true?

Edit: And I bet that’s what it will come down to. The defence will try to convince the jury that the cyclist swore/threatened the taxi driver. That will be enough to distract from the “using his car ‘as a weapon'” accusation and the driver will go free because the cyclist wasn’t a meek little angel who took nearly being run over in the good homour that the cabbie intended it. Whether or not he actually did use the car as a weapon will end up as an irrelevance.

Bloody cyclists…

I think this case is a perfect example of why the law tends to frown on

“Sticks and stones”

more than

“words”

One will break your bones, the other never hurt you.

I had a random ‘you fuuuucking caaaaaaant’, from a cabbie outside Euston just b4 Xmas as he had to wait an extra 10 seconds for me to pass so he could turn into the taxi rank

I suspect all that sitting on their arses and red faced ranting does wonders for their blood pressure

One will break your bones, the other never hurt you.

Unless you make an ill-advised joke about blowing up Robin Hood Airport.

Whereas I had a cyclist blast through the red lights at Bank today just in front of me as I was crossing…

Is it possible that both of those things are true?

Maybe, but someone swore at me the other day too, however I didn’t then assault them with a weapon to teach them a lesson.

The cyclist my have been the biggest prick in the world, hurling abuse and insulting his mother for all we know, but that doesn’t excuse the response does it?

If this had been a drink-spilling queue bump in a pup and the now thirsty party had let some choice words out you wouldn’t expect the other guy to come at you with a knife would you?

The fact he’s a cyclist is irrelevant, could jsut have easily been a pedestrian, or another car driver.

One person drove his car at another person, this is not acceptable behaviour.

Whereas I had a cyclist blast through the red lights at Bank today just in front of me as I was crossing…

Right. And…?

Is it possible that both of those things are true?

Maybe, but someone swore at me the other day too, however I didn’t then assault them with a weapon to teach them a lesson.

The cyclist my have been the biggest prick in the world, hurling abuse and insulting his mother for all we know, but that doesn’t excuse the response does it?
No, that’s exactly my point. It’ll end up being an argument over whether or not the cyclist swore or shouted or made a gesture at the driver. When actually all of those things are irrelevant. If you call someone a c***/t*at/w**ker/n**cheese/c*ckgoblin/spunktrumpet and then get upset when they say the same thing back then you’re not going to get much sympathy. But if someone nearly runs you over and you get (quite fairly, IMO) annoyed by that, you shouldn’t then be attacked with the best part of two tons of steel. and the attack shouldn’t ever be justified by “but he said a naughty word”.

Sadly, I think that’s where the trial will go, but it shouldn’t. It’s like the Helen Measures case. Driving at speed, on the wrong side of the road, round a blind bend. Hit an oncoming cyclist so hard she was thrown into an adjacent field. And the defence turned it into the cyclist’s fault because she was ‘inexperienced’.

@bails, apologies if it didn’t come across right, I was using a portion of your comments to respond to the others.

I get what you’re saying and I’m (optimistically) hoping you’re wrong, I just wanted to clarify why it’s so bad that it even comes into the discussion, hence my comments agreeing with you about it being irrelevant

Ah, I’m with you now. I didn’t want anyone to think I was a STW cyclist hater 😉

For the sake of balance, the vast majority of taxi drivers I’ve encountered on my London cycle commutes have been brilliant. As a rule, they’ve given me adequate room, they’ve let me out of junctions and I cannot recall a single incident whereby one has ever put me at risk.

However, a significant proportion of London bus drivers appear to harbor murderous tendencies.

Some depressing court cases on there!
http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/online_archive/?name=cyclist&sa=Search#results

“… delivery driver deliberately knocked a woman cyclist off her bike after she flicked two fingers at him, a court heard today (MON). Dennis Baker, 67, was captured on his own onboard CCTV beeping his horn at Alison Kempster and groaning ‘Come on get out of the bloody way.’ Annoyed by her V-sign response, Baker then pulled up alongside the cyclist and edged closer and closer to her until she fell off into the road”

I have to go through red lights every morning on my way to work on my bike as they only turn green when a car approaches!!!

I have to go through red lights every morning on my way to work on my bike as they only turn green when a car approaches!!!

Are you referring to the ones that sense the cars approaching using magnetic strips? My bike triggers those on the bus/cycle lanes around here, just take primary position so you ride over the strips.

Right. And…?

just saying, resentment against cyclists isn’t going to reduce when halfwits do this – he was going full pelt.

If the walk light is green I expect to be able to walk across in reasonable safety.

just saying, resentment against cyclists isn’t going to reduce when halfwits do this – he was going full pelt.

Do you honestly think that if all cyclists obeyed the law, resentment would disappear?

He doesn’t say disappear does he ? He says reduce.

light is green I expect to be able to walk across in reasonable safety.

I agree completely.

just saying, resentment against cyclists isn’t going to reduce when halfwits do this – he was going full pelt.

But what’s that got to do with a case of (allegedly) a driver nearly hitting a cyclist, the cyclist responding with a swear and the driver then chasing the cyclist down while trying to run him down with his taxi?

Would you reply on that thread about a forumer’s stolen land rover saying “well, the other day I saw a driver breaking the speed limit. Just saying”? It’s an irrelevance, and some kind of weird attempt at victim blaming and collective punishment rolled into one.

Report them to the council as being faulty. I do that and it does eventually work – got an e-mail update yesterday:

https://e-services.worcestershire.gov.uk/OnlineReporting/QuickStatusCheckqs.aspx?id=6688407&Type=HIGHREPORT

(can anybody else see that?)

It is weird when people do that isn’t it, reflect a prejudice against an entire group based on the behaviour of individuals who nobody else in the group has any control over.

I mean I saw a pedestrian drop a piece of litter the other day, it’s no wonder cyclists want to run them down on crossings, until they stop behaving like that it’s not goin to get any better is it?

How ridiculous does that sound? ^

Indeed – I should know better than to read that. A larger fine for damaging the bodywork of a car than for nearly killing somebody and permanently crippling her.

I have to go through red lights every morning on my way to work on my bike as they only turn green when a car approaches!!!

That’s quite legal actually, since the lights aren’t at that point in time operating in accordance with the relevant blah blah, they’re technically not traffic lights at all, just a red bulb on a stick and you aren’t committing any offence by riding past them.

IANAL if you hadn’t guessed.

I mean I saw a pedestrian drop a piece of litter the other day, it’s no wonder cyclists want to run them down on crossings, until they stop behaving like that it’s not goin to get any better is it?

If a significant number of pedestrians were chucking litter around then resentment towards them would increase.

Every time a cyclist jumps a light they are contributing to the overall number of RLJs and helping to screw it up for all the non-RLJers. Same with pavement riding and lack of lights.

If a significant number of pedestrians were chucking litter around then resentment towards them would increase.

Read that back and think about what you’ve just written.

I know it’s hard for some of us to admit when we’ve made pillocks of ourselves, but I’d stop digging if I were you.

a significant proportion of London bus drivers appear to harbor murderous tendencies

Yep, I’d have to agree with that

Get yourself into a good visible position, make eye contact with the driver and they still steer towards you intent on squeezing you out of the way / to death

I see cyclists ride stupidly and jump red lights
I see drivers drive dangerously and run red lights
I see pedestrians cross without looking and drop litter

You know what I resent? The people that do those things!

I do not resent other people that don’t do those things but happen to have chosen a similar mode of transport

I certainly don’t use past poor behaviour of other people to try and justify unacceptable behaviour to entirely different people.

I have to go through red lights every morning on my way to work on my bike as they only turn green when a car approaches!!!

don’t see many cars though do you? what about the horses and carts they have round them thar parts marra?

Cycling and cyclists do seem to bring out the absolute worst in angry and irrational people…

I daren’t read any of the comments in newspaper articles that appear about this story – it’s depressing.

The only time I’m abused and have total strangers deliberately try and harm me is when I’m on my bike.

As someone in the comments of a cycling story in the Guardian said last week, cyclists have become the general dumping ground for all kinds of general resentments and hatreds that people have… hence the utter irrationality and bonkersness of the anti-cycling arguments like the one up there ^^

My experience in recent months is that the great British public are, overall, beginning to get there and basically be a bit more grown up about it, but I really am looking forward to the day when I can go for a bike ride without someone at some point either shouting abuse or coming close to putting me in hospital

I do not resent other people that don’t do those things but happen to have chosen a similar mode of transport

You’ll not get far on this here t’internet thingy with that kind of level headed attitude.

Whereas I had a cyclist blast through the red lights at Bank today just in front of me as I was crossing…

If only he’d gone a touch slower…

If only he’d gone a touch slower…

And run Turnerguy over I presume. Your point being anybody who suggests cyclists can be bell ends deserves to be physically harmed ?

No. Just Turnerguy.

harrumph

http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/?news_id=43127

A cyclist-hating delivery driver who knocked a woman off her bike after she flicked two fingers at him has been ordered to pay £1,000 compensation to his victim. – See more at: http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/?news_id=43127#sthash.6BddqYfD.dpuf

A cyclist-hating delivery driver who knocked a woman off her bike after she flicked two fingers at him has been ordered to pay £1,000 compensation to his victim. – See more at: http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/?news_id=43127#sthash.6BddqYfD.dpuf

Good job his driving wasn’t dangerous though, he could have hurt someone!

Wow, even with video it seems impossible to convict for dangerous driving. Is there something specific about that charge that makes it difficult to stick?

I see cyclists ride stupidly and jump red lights
I see drivers drive dangerously and run red lights
I see pedestrians cross without looking and drop litter

You know what I resent? The people that do those things!

Me too, but only one of those three groups has ever put me in mortal danger…

I wasn’t even going to touch on that aspect of it ransos, reminding people that when driving cars/vans/lorries that they have a higher duty of care to more vulnerable road users never seems to go down well, normally met with irrelevant frothing about some bloke they saw once who jumped a red light…

Me too, but only one of those three groups has ever put me in mortal danger…

most cars I see going through a red light are just after the light change whereas I often see cyclists going through lights that have been changed for a period of time.

In other words I don’t see cars going through lights whilst the green walk sign is lit, but often do for cyclists.

If a cyclist has slowed down and picks his way through so as not to endanger pedestrians then that’s not quite so bad, but when aggressive idiots just carry on at full speed then that is a big issue. If they hit someone elderly and caused them to fall and break a hip then that is almost a fatal injury – the stats for survival of old people after such a break are not good.

most cars people driving cars I see going through a red light are just after the light change whereas I often see cyclists going through lights that have been changed for a period of time.

please try not to distract from the fact it is people doing this, not a ‘car’ or a non-personified group, it is people. It may only seem like a subtle change of words to you but the subconcious effect of referring to ‘cars’ doing bad things or having accidents is very damaging.

Not to mention that the vast majority of people who ride bikes also drive cars, the inverse is not true. That kind of behaviour is more to do with the person than their mode of travel at the time you witness it.

If they hit someone elderly and caused them to fall and break a hip then that is almost a fatal injury – the stats for survival of old people after such a break are not good.

You really don’t want to get into a stats war about injuries caused by people driving cars vs people riding bikes, or even people punching/knocking down other people, it will not come out in your
favour.

but when aggressive idiots just carry on at full speed then that is a big issue

And nobody would disagree with you, it is an issue, it should be addressed, and I have been known to have words with people when I’ve seen them doing stuff like that, but it has absolutely no relevance to this case at all, it is not justification to tar other people with that brush.

You seem to want all other cyclists to somehow be responsible for the behaviour of people like this and use it as a mitigating factor for animosity towards the whole perceived group.
Do you feel responsible for drunk drivers? do you feel responsible for the behaviour or this taxi driver? Should I hold some animosity towards you because this taxi driver deliberately drove his car at someone?