This had me pretty wound up ..
Bit of a story, but here goes ..
I ordered a set of carbon wheels off ebay the other week. When they arrived I realised the hub would not fit my new 11speed cassette.
Only option was to buy an 11speed hub and swap them over.
Decided to get a local shop in Risca to build it. Last Saturday I took in the rim, hub, spokes and nipples .. and fella said he would build it for £25 .. sweet!
He phones me Monday, and says the non driveside spokes are couple mill too short. He said he will have to order me longer spokes. This will cost me £2 each for the 12 new ones.
I asked him what spokes .. cos I have never paid more than £1 for a spoke ... DTswiss spokes he says.
Fair enough I think. Twice as expensive as I can get them online .. but LBS prices eh!!
Wednesday I ring him up to see if its ready. Spokes not in yet, but he will ring me later to let me know ... no phone call comes later.
I ring him Thursday. Spokes still not in he says. He will ring me later to let me know. Does not ring me again later to let me know..
I ring him Friday. Spokes in he says. Only problem is that the red nipples I gave him do not fit the new DTswiss spokes he fitting .. do I mind if he fits silver nipples ... just fit them I say, spoke colour no big deal to me.
Finally I pick up wheel. Looks nice. £49 altogether ( £25 build & £24 for the 12 new DTswiss spokes ).
When I get in I fit rim tape. I notice a couple of threads showing on the non drive side spokes .. the spokes he said were the DTswiss ones he had to order ..
On closer look I can see all spokes, including the ones he said were DTswiss, were the mac spokes I had given him .. the flange were all clearly marked with an M ... not the DTswiss emblem.
He had charged me £24 extra .. and used the spokes I had given him. The only thing he had changed were the spoke nipples in an attempt to dupe me into thinking he had swapped spokes.
Went to his shop first thing this morning.
Soon as he opened his door I was there.
He looked at me, and the look on his face told me he knew why I was there.
I asked him what he was playing at by trying to con me. He tried to say he had charged me £24 for changing the 12 nipples on non drive side ... so I reminded him he had said he swapped them cos they didnt fit the new DTswiss spokes he was supposed to have fitted.
He had no answer. Just started mumbling something about he had made a mix up.
I got a refund. But what madness for him to even try such a blatant con job.
I dont imagine for one second I am the 1st person he has tried to thief off.
As for the shops name .. all I will say is that it sounds similar to Fartin Gashfield Bikles 😉
you got your red nips back ?
Mistakes do happen, and you've got a refund so he's acknowledged that there was a mistake, the shop in question has a lot of happy customers including myself as it's my local
Hardly seems a genuine mistake ..
How does he charge £24 extra when he knows he has only changed 12 spoke nipples?
And more so after he told me he had put 12 DTswiss spokes on .. and used ones I had provided??
If this is a mistake you too could/would make LOCO .. then I shall continue to give you a wide berth.
😆 I get people to build my wheels for me as i don't have time, cheer up the suns out 😀
Yep know the guy myself worked with on the tour of Britain when he was the mech to the welsh squad top bloke all round .
You got a refund maybe it was just a mix up.
It's always the eBay crap that causes grief .
I'm with you, mooman. It appears to be blatant dishonesty, and I'm glad you caught it.
Doesnt sound like an honest mistske to me. Why did you not ask for your original spokes back when you picked up your wheel though ?
Who knows ?
But he isn't here to defend himself is he ?
so are the carbon wheels any good
where you riding with them this weekend?
+1 nonk, not something he's likely to have done on purpose knowing him.
maybe he ordered the spokes, found they were wrongly sized, rebuilt with your old ones anyway (not sure about the nips though, unless the silver ones are longer and were an initial attempt to correct a too-short DT problem - or shorter to correct a too-long problem where the nipple runs right down the thread on the spoke)
possibly a mistake [b][u]IF[/u][/b] it wasn't him that built the wheel and the builder didn't mention the change of plan - can't really see another way this could be an error
Not knowing him that is a blatant attempt to twist your nipples and charge you for the pleasure.
I remember the heady days where Watsontony was defended initially as well.
Doesn't sound very honest mistake to me.
This had me pretty wound up ..
Sorry but LOL!!!
Brightened up a wet day
Doesn't sound very honest mistake to me
50/50 either way in my opinion.
What PatriotPro said ^^^
asterix - Memberso are the carbon wheels any good
where you riding with them this weekend?
Yes - look good enough.
Still on winter bike. So wont be using them for awhile yet.
bam74 - MemberDoesnt sound like an honest mistske to me. Why did you not ask for your original spokes back when you picked up your wheel though ?
I didnt ask for them back because I forgot .. effects of working nightshift this week.
scaredypants - Member
maybe he ordered the spokes, found they were wrongly sized, rebuilt with your old ones anyway (not sure about the nips though, unless the silver ones are longer and were an initial attempt to correct a too-short DT problem - or shorter to correct a too-long problem where the nipple runs right down the thread on the spoke)
possibly a mistake IF it wasn't him that built the wheel and the builder didn't mention the change of plan - can't really see another way this could be an error
He is the wheel builder. I too was hoping it would be a mistake with mechanic in back etc.
Blatant attempt to con.
If the threads are showing it might be worth taking a peek under the rim tape to see if those spokes actually go into the nipple heads or are stopping short (unsupported nipples are a lot weaker)
We would all like to think the our lbs are the pinnacle of honesty but they can be just as dishonest as anyone. I had this sort of thing happen to me not long back, i took my bike in for a full service and had all new drive train parts fitted while it was in, they called me while working on it to tell me the bb was goosed and also the headset, I told them to replace the bb and put a Chris King replacement headset in, they did a great job and I came away happy. Then three weeks later I managed to get a new frame for a cracking price and asked them to swap everything over for me, this time I got a call saying the bb was nackered and needed replacing??? When I questioned him about it and told him I'd only ridden the bike once he changed his mind! You could say it was a mistake or you could say he was trying it on? It'll cost him in the long run though cos I won't go there again!
Edit: obviously I didn't buy them enough biscuits?
jimification - MemberIf the threads are showing it might be worth taking a peek under the rim tape to see if those spokes actually go into the nipple heads or are stopping short (unsupported nipples are a lot weaker)
Good call. Will check them.
The problem I have now is that I will have to take wheel to another shop to have wheel looked over because I have no faith/trust in the workmanship of the wheelbuilder.
Last thing I want is for the wheel to fold on a descent because the LBS wanted to thief a little extra money off me instead of putting the correct spokes on that I had paid for.
£2 a spoke IS too much. Ours are 80p for plain gauge and £1.19 double butted including nipples.
£2 a spoke IS too much. Ours are 80p for plain gauge and £1.19 double butted including nipples.
Totally depends on the spoke PP. You should know this by now! 😉
Anything bladed is going to be £2+ minimum, quite probably a fair bit more. Then there's the fact the shop has to order in a size it wouldn't normally use, probably in a box of 72... And...
Well... Losing the point here!
I'd say given the fact you've got your money back, what's the issue? Honest mistakes do happen, you're no worse off. You ever worked in an LBS where in general, the guys in there have to sell bikes, build bikes, fix bikes, order stock, book stock in, put stock on display, box stuff for dispatch, take stuff down the PO for dispatch, face up, sweep the floor, make the tea AND be nice to customers all at the same time!!!
Sometimes, things get innocently missed or forgotten.
I'd say chalk it up to experience, and just be wary next time. Obviously if he tried it on again, then you know where you stand, but I'd say given that you got your money back so readily it sounded like an honest mistake. I'm sure he felt a bit of a prat because of it, and next time you go in there with a packet of biscuits he'll probably stick the kettle on and give you 10% off your next purchase by way of an apology... Maybe...
Or am I living in a dream world where everybody has got something better to do than get on their high horse and rant about the insignificant things that are (or have been) easily fixed? 😕
How come you didn't realise this when you collected the wheel and the LBS didn't return the spokes you gave him? I'd have thought it would have been picked up then as an issue.
Could well be a misunderstanding. Benefit of the doubt once? It's a bit of a jump from that to pretty much naming the shop and saying
"I dont imagine for one second I am the 1st person he has tried to thief off."
Mistakes do happen of course.
The fact I was waiting from Monday for the different spokes .. the fact i had phoned Wedn/Thurs/Friday and spoke replacement was main point of delay.
How then does he overlook replacing them ?
Yes - i should have given wheel a thorough look over in shop. I honestly didnt expect him to have not replaced them ... Who would ??
He had no other option but to refund me. There was no doubt at all he hadnt replaced spokes.
But once bitten etc.
Will avoid the place like the plague.
Sounds to me like you've caught them trying it on and are well within your rights to be very annoyed. Not sure I agree with the "honest mistake" take from some on here, sound pretty clearcut from (admittedly 1 side of) the story I've heard.
Totally depends on the spoke PP. You should know this by now!Anything bladed is going to be £2+ minimum, quite probably a fair bit more. Then there's the fact the shop has to order in a size it wouldn't normally use, probably in a box of 72... And...
Yeah. I do. No mention of this one being bladed though! He just says "DT Swiss" so I quoted prices for DT Swiss spokes..... 🙂
I know how to listen to a customer...... 😉
A packet of biscuits?
Is handing over of specified amount of money for service/products not enough?
Does anyone actually do this?
Just to clarify - spokes would have been aero type.
He did not mention if they were to be aero-lite/aero-comp/aero-speed .. only said DTswiss spokes.
Not that it matters any. Because he didnt fit them.
So if he'd fitted the Dt swiss spokes surely he would have given you your spokes back that you supplied when you collected the wheel ??? Therefore knowing he'd used the other spokes
Stick to skenes son. no nonsense and they won't spend the first 10 minutes telling you how crap everything is that they don't sell.
you got old stock dt spokes then peter .....
unless they have come down in price significantly since i left the trade your shop is selling at trade. or possibly even below.
I can only guess that the people who are offering excuses for what happened are people in the bike trade?
In which case .. surely these people should be trying to remove the bad apples that are giving their profession a bad name.
What difference does it make that I forgot to ask for spokes back?
At the same time I did not recieve a receipt off him either ..
He knew and I knew the situation ... thats all that mattered in my eyes.
If I had gone there today and he refused to refund me. Which he could have. Then sure I would have been even more pissed ... but for me the main reason to go back was to let him know I had rumbled him.
To tell him face to face I knew he had conned me and I would not be giving him the opportunity to do so again.
Bicycle businesses don't go around trying to get rid of the bad apple's. They just mind their own business and try and do their own thing in the bike trade.
It's not like Tesco V Sainsbury's. They don't have the time to go out of their way to peeve off their competitors. They've got flippin wheels to build!
I can understand why the OP is annoyed, but it sounds to me like a mix-up on behalf of the shopkeeper. I guess I find it hard to believe that the proprietor of an established business would risk damage to his reputation for £24.
He tried to bum u
Well if you had asked for your spokes back when you picked up the wheel ....and he'd obviously used them ...you could have tackled him there and then ...save you time and rumbled him straight away .....just sayin !!
you got old stock dt spokes then peter .....
Do spokes have a sell by date? I think not.
In any case, that shop hasn't been open 2 years yet, so no. And the DB price is for a new box I opened a couple of weeks ago.... 🙂
No we know that they're bladed spokes, which the OP doesn't mention, £2 is reasonable.. 🙂
i wish people would stop banging on about mistakes happen.
the bloke said spokes weren't suitable then used them with the cover story that he'd bought additional spokes and nipples. he even used differently coloured nipples to give the impression that what he claimed was what had happened.
the lesson here is buyer beware and know your stuff even if you don't have the skills to, for example, build a wheel. I would advise that even if you can't do it you make sure they know that you know your stuff.
I'm with Collinnstifee, there's little scope for confusion given the series of conversations that was had with the man who was doing the actual work.
Of course, we're only hearing half of the story and no way of judging whether it's the true half. As has been said, it seems a lot of trouble to go to just for £24 given the relative ease of confirming whether the work was completed or not - markings on spokes, requests for old spokes, etc.
One possible story could be that the shop had all of the right intentions to fit the right spokes, was struggling to get them, got fed up with a nagging customer so just rebuilt the wheel to get him off his back. By then, it would have been a difficult situation to own up to so kept the story going. Definitely dishonest but in part a situation created by the OP's constant chasing.
We shall never truly know but it seems fair to assume a degree of caution should be taken when dealing with this shop.
Well, i did think from the op's post it did seem a pretty clear cut case of an attempted fraud, but then i read this;
I'd say given the fact you've got your money back, what's the issue? Honest mistakes do happen, you're no worse off. You ever worked in an LBS where in general, the guys in there have to sell bikes, build bikes, fix bikes, order stock, book stock in, put stock on display, box stuff for dispatch, take stuff down the PO for dispatch, face up, sweep the floor, make the tea AND be nice to customers all at the same time!!!
Now I'm thinking of setting up a charity for the special souls that nobly staff our lbs's.
STW'er outraged by trifleing little issue shocker!!! 🙄
oh, another "shocker" headline. I agree with kevevs.
STW'er outraged by trifleing little issue shocker!!!
Yeah, why do people get so annoyed when they get charged for stuff that wasn't done ?
Oh, no, hang on, it's actually pretty obvious why isn't it 🙄
(If you disagree, please send me £45 via PayPal gift, I just mowed your lawn and painted your front door, they still look the same, but I did do them. Honest)
Lol at nealglover, do these muppets really need it breaking down...
Obviously they do. Bless em 😉
Where's my £45 !!!!
I'm not doing this fake work for bloody charity you know.
It took me bloody ages to pretend to mow your lawn and paint your front door. And you haven't even got the decency to pay me for not doing it.
Some people !
To everyone who's saying "honest mistake", I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell...
Smell_it +1
You mean to say if you work in a LBS you actually have to do something to get your monthly pay packet...
The injustice of it!!
Whilst I have some sympathy for the OP, if I was the shop owner I'd be a little peeved at being asked to do the spannering on a bunch of new components bought elsewhere. If you are too cack-handed to do the work yourself you should be prepared to pay a little more (in this case for the new hub and spokes) and buy them at the shop that is getting you out of a self inflicted hole to allow them to make a living wage. Or learn to do the work yourself.
If the LBS of the country could form themselves a little union and collectively only work on internet bought components after payment of an "internet levy" or after the major online chains paid them a retainer, the riders on this country would quickly become better mechanics or learn the value of a local service.
Convert if he didn't want to do the job he should have simply said no.
convert stop trolling its way too obvious
as funky said besides they were charging labour which I am sure earnt net profit for the shop
Convert if he didn't want to do the job he should have simply said no.
Probably should have- if they all did collectively it might make us (the buying public) rethink our choices. I'm not saying we should just hand over our cash unthinkingly but imo buying all the components to do the job elsewhere from an online retailer but without the wherewithal to do the job yourself and then to take them to a place that sells the very same products is a bit cheeky.
This does not give the shop owner/ wheelbuilder carte-blanche to rip you off but maybe goes a little way to understand why they might want to.
If the LBS of the country could form themselves a little union and collectively only work on internet bought components after payment of an "internet levy" or after the major online chains paid them a retainer, the riders on this country would quickly become better mechanics or learn the value of a local service.
Survival if the fittest. Isn't it. One of my LBS exists solely to sell the best bikes ever made (whoever they're contracted to stock at present) and charge a fortune over halfords/the Internet for tubes and lube.
I'm not really sure if I know where to stand on the LBS versus the rest of the world debate..
On the one hand a lot of enthusiasts slag off their LBS, and the LBS is undoubtedly losing some profit on high end boutique parts and equipment to the internet shops..
On the other hand the LBS seems in general to be the one area of retail where the customer is never right, and they're sooo flippin' busy doing a roaring trade that they don't have time to provide an acceptable level of service..
and in other news I popped into my LBS yesterday afternoon, to collect one of my bikes and a wheel that they were also building for me, and they had saved me the last piece of Victoria sponge that they had specifically put to one side for me...
LBS win as far as I'm concerned
Don't get me wrong.. I quite like the folk in my LBS, and I would say that getting on for 50% of the staff there are almost approaching something like personable.. 😀
Assuming the OPs story is true then what the shop did is totally outrageous and probably downright illegal too . I wonder if the people trying to excuse this behaviour would be so charitable if the shop in question was Dave Hinde ?
Knowing both the op and shop, there is definatly more to this 'story' than has been posted here. Straight accusing them of theft and naming them is disgusting. With the op's history.
That's at least three people that know the lbs. I that case get them, on give their side, let them defend themselves/clear their name.
I can only guess that the people who are offering excuses for what happened are people in the bike trade?In which case .. surely these people should be trying to remove the bad apples that are giving their profession a bad name.
I've worked in the bike trade for years, as many on here know. (Don't anymore)
But I had a similar incident happen to me when I worked in a sports shop just after leaving school.
A chap came in late on a friday, after the latest Pete Sampras racket that had just arrived that morning desperate to play with it that evening. So I grabbed the racket out of the box showed him it. He then asked if he could have it strung in the top of the range string at a certain tension.
I said no probs, cut the strings out whilst chatting to him and restrung the racket. He paid for the string and racket left capped to bits.
The next morning he called to say the racket had been strung in the same strings as original. (He was right, but at the time this was an unusual string to factory standard) Kicking off that we had ripped him off. We apologised and gave him the refund of string.
I genuinely never thought to check and my intentions where to get the customer out the door with what he wanted for his match that evening.
I'm not defending the shop entirely or saying the OP is completely wrong, as I wasn't there and only have an internet rant to go off. I'm just saying there is a good chance it was a mistake.
The glass is always either half full or half empty.
convert - Member
Convert if he didn't want to do the job he should have simply said no.
Probably should have- if they all did collectively it might make us (the buying public) rethink our choices. I'm not saying we should just hand over our cash unthinkingly but imo buying all the components to do the job elsewhere from an online retailer but without the wherewithal to do the job yourself and then to take them to a place that sells the very same products is a bit cheeky.
This does not give the shop owner/ wheelbuilder carte-blanche to rip you off but maybe goes a little way to understand why they might want to.
What an utter load of bollox. Should a car garage turn down work if I asked them to bleed my brakes if I didnt buy the car from them?
Why would any business turn down work because the parts didn't come from them.
It's why they charge labour. Some shops will even do free fitting on stuff bought from them.
Infact labour on bike repairs is probably the most profitable thing not parts.
If a rear mech has a retail of £85 pretty sure the bike shop will only be making £35 profit at the most.
Think about it before you come on trolling.
Knowing both the op and shop, there is definatly more to this 'story' than has been posted here. Straight accusing them of theft and naming them is disgusting. With the op's history.
Any chance that you could let the shop know so that we can get their side of the story.
Also can you give us a quick summary of the OP's history?
For those claiming it was an honest mistake - the builder called the OP to say his spokes were too short. Which was clearly untrue, as he went ahead and used them in the end. Dubious.
He was either lying about that, or at best did a shoddy job with the wrong sized spokes, and compounded it by charging for new spokes on top.
Can someone reveal the name of the shop so i know to avoid.
I think the OP did mention them in a coded message but I have no idea what that was.
Getting annoyed with people moaning about customers buying parts on the Internet then asking LBS p do other work.
The LBS's should be glad of any work. I suspect all the people complaining about it are in the trade.
Perhaps the guy was just having a bad week, has stuff going on in his head outside work, or was overly busy. Maybe give him the benefit of doubt this time?
We can all **** up at work from time to time.
Infact labour on bike repairs is probably the most profitable thing not parts.
LOL
Why would any business turn down work because the parts didn't come from them.
It's why they charge labour. Some shops will even do free fitting on stuff bought from them.
If you buy the parts from the shop, the shop makes the profit on the parts, and the profit on the labour. If you bring parts bought online, the shop only makes the profit on the labour. But the time taken is the same, the shop still has to pay rent, rates, wages, heating and lighting. So the shop makes less money.
Add to that, often people who pay less for parts want to pay less for labour too. Not always, but it's a common complaint.
If you buy the parts from the shop, the shop makes the profit on the parts, and the profit on the labour. If you bring parts bought online, the shop only makes the profit on the labour. But the time taken is the same, the shop still has to pay rent, rates, wages, heating and lighting. So the shop makes less money.
So I bought my bike from my LBS but I've since moved to a different area.
Will the new shop turn down servicing work on my bike as it will clearly effect their ability to pay the rent and the lighting bill if they service a bike that wasn't bought there 😉
As it happens, the new shop offers free fitting if you buy the parts from them.
So would they be better off not doing that work and accepting my servicing work instead ?
Dunno - I'm just suggesting why some shops might not be happy fitting parts bought online. I'm not a normal bike shop - I know how I make money, I have no idea how a normal shop does it 😉
Dunno
Me neither, it was hypothetical really (I haven't moved house, and I do my own servicing generally 😉 )
BruceWee - MemberKnowing both the op and shop, there is definatly more to this 'story' than has been posted here. Straight accusing them of theft and naming them is disgusting. With the op's history.
Any chance that you could let the shop know so that we can get their side of the story.
Also can you give us a quick summary of the OP's history?
Yep - I would be very interested too 😉
Maybe Shepleg would like to remind me who he is too - seeing as he knows me ..
An update ... Shepleg is Simon Powdrill ... aka LoCo ... as in the guy on page one who came to the LBS defence ..
Why post under a different user account though ...
Yep ... I can guess 😳
And just for the record. I have never met Simon Powdrill/Loco/Shepleg
What [i]about[/i] the OP's history?
I know the OP, and can not imagine him making something up or embellishing a story with a view to denigrating anyone's livelihood.
Infact labour on bike repairs is probably the most profitable thing not parts.
LOL
Why LOL?
Tell me, how much goes into the bank on £100 labour and how much on £100 of parts? 🙂
Thanks SaxonRider.
Its pretty clear where Shepleg/Loco/Simon Powdrill is coming from.
ps,
Are you one of the 2 Toms?
Nope. I'm 'The Flying Doctor'. Remember?
Tell me, how much goes into the bank on £100 labour and how much on £100 of parts?
Not apples and apples though is it?
New gear cable £1.99, fitting £10?
New Hope BB £70, fitting £10, (or more likely free if you bought it from the shop rather than for £10 less on CRC). The BB probably made more than £10 margin.
Guess it probably depends on the shop as a town center shop in a big city probably does more gear cables, brake pads and punctures.
Local higher end shops maybe a greater proportion of money in components? £100 labour would build a bike from components, there's more money in the components (the frame alone even?) surely?
SaxonRider - MemberNope. I'm 'The Flying Doctor'. Remember?
Of course. I hope with your very busy schedule you are finding time to ride?
An update ... Shepleg is Simon Powdrill ... aka LoCo ... as in the guy on page one who came to the LBS defence
If that's true, that is a bit of a shame'er.
He tried to bum u
mooman - MemberOf course. I hope with your very busy schedule you are finding time to ride?
I am, but mostly on the road to work. I have ridden with my older boys a few times, and will be out again this week. But nothing compared to what you are doing!
Not apples and apples though is it?
Be picky if you like, but that's how I'm comparing it, yes. Parts you have to buy. Labour you don't, you're paying the staff anyway. Simples. 🙂