sjs frame couple fitment perhaps :d
frontal impact - maybe the wheel got stuck inbetween the 2 roots he was riding over 
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Kona Frame - Can you still ride this??
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Posted 2 years ago #
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Here you go -
For those that don't know I rode into a parked car. Same effect as this crash. Bike comes to dead stop, rider over bars. Something a lot smaller than a car can have you over the bars, even the right sized dip in the floor can do it.
IDENTICAL method of frame failure to the Kona above: As the wheel/forks are pushed backwards they have a LOT of leverage on the head tube which buckles the tubes upwards (My TT was pulled apart on it's upper surface too) Carry on like this a bit more and, hey presto, the frame looks like the Kona above and the welds are ripped apart. I'll hazzard a guess that the Kona is tougher round the head tube (Gussets, bigger tubing?) than at the DT/BB and TT/ST welds, hence that's why those gave out first.
There is NO WAY ON EARTH the welds failed first. If they had, the tubes would still be straight
weld went the bike could have landed any side up causing the two tubes to ben like that.
There is no way you could bend those tubes like that without BIG leverage, especially BOTH of them!It's crash damage. Get over it. Suck it up. MTFU. Get the chequebook out. Stop making excuses. End of story.
Sorry kid, but dems da breaks...
Posted 2 years ago # -
States were cheaper for frame than UK hence buying there"
Nope its cause there wasnt 1 left in the uk in his size to buy ..... he phoned every dealer on the paligap list ....was offered a 2007 one at RRP mind ....Was not aware of that!!
2007 at RRP, that is pretty shocking!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Glad its not my bike...
Still the damage into a parked car and that riding over a route, to me should be the pictures the other way around!
Race frame should be able to withstand small trail impacts. Parked car on the other hand, not sure if thats in the design specification!
Posted 2 years ago # -
2007 at RRP, that is pretty shocking!
Mark ill give you 2 guesses who offered him that
Posted 2 years ago # -
Top tube/seat tube weld looks like it hung on for quite a while!
How big is this mate of yours?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Double post
Posted 2 years ago # -
Replacement frame at cost sounds pretty good to me, bearing in mind you're talking about crash damage. If
youyour friend doesn't feel confident riding a Scandium Kona frame after their crash, they can always sell it on.From the blurry pic, it looks like a large frontal impact which bent the top and down tubes at the butting and then snapped the welds.
Bearing in mind your friend bought the frame in the US, they have little to no consumer protection over here - see BERR link above - as it wasn't bought here. Frankly, you're lucky Paligap has offered your friend crash replacement. See here: overseas rights advice.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I don't know about Kona, but I've got an Orbea Alma with a lifetime warranty. So far, so good, but they stipulate that the frame is NOT covered if it breaks while being raced.
I haven't read the whole thread so maybe have missed something, but I would guess that it might be the same with Kona. You race, you invalidate the warranty. Next time take the number off!
Posted 2 years ago # -
PeterPoddy - that looks exactly like my old KHS Team frame - I rode into a 6" tall Landrover wheelrut and bent the downtube exactly like that. I told KHS' importer in the UK what had happened, and they offered me a crash replacement, which I figured was more than fair enough. This would have been in about '96.
Posted 2 years ago # -
There is NO WAY ON EARTH the welds failed first. If they had, the tubes would still be straight
I too have revised my opinion. It's clear to me that the bends and weld failures would have occured at approximately the same time. Although this hardly matters as it was a frontal impact big enough to bend the front end that did it.
IME you can have crashes that seems slow/low impact that do as much damage as the big ones. Light frames break. I go over the bars a fair bit without frame damage...on my Heckler!
Posted 2 years ago # -
PeterPoddy - that looks exactly like my old KHS Team frame - I rode into a 6" tall Landrover wheelrut and bent the downtube exactly like that. I told KHS' importer in the UK what had happened, and they offered me a crash replacement, which I figured was more than fair enough. This would have been in about '96.
Yeah, Sanderson offered me crash replacement too, but I'd already ordered my 853 Inbred.
How big is this mate of yours?
Yes that had occoured to me as well.
Race frame should be able to withstand small trail impacts
It's not the small impact that counts. It's come to a dead stop somehow and like I've already said it doesn't have to be very much of an obstacle to achieve said dead stop. You'd be amazed at the tiny root that had me over the bars at CyB.....
Posted 2 years ago # -
12 stone whippet - was in 4th at the scottish champs on the last lap at the time so its fair to say he was fairly light/fit
Posted 2 years ago # -
12stone is light now. Cool. Made me feel better today anyhow.
Posted 2 years ago # -
12stone is light now.
Sorry brant but from normal people point of view, 12 St is big Posted 2 years ago # -
it is when your above 6 foot
and im sticking to it .... im 12 stone at 6 foot 3 ....
Posted 2 years ago # -
12st isn't whippet light, 9st is! And 4th at the Scottish Champs in Vets?
Is an odd failure given the description of the incident, but it might have been the culmination of a few crashes or such. Nice of Kona to offer a crash replacement, especially since their warranty states void if raced.
Posted 2 years ago # -
(Mr M-C, former metallurgist posting)
as other respondents have said there is no way a bending force could have been applied to the tubes if the welds failed first. As Brant commented look at the amount of bending on the top tube-the top tube weld has held on for dear life long after the down tube has bent to the extent that its weld has failed.
Ive seen frames fail in a similar manner in what look fairly innocuous situations, you dont need a huge amount of speed or a massive impact to apply a massive bending moment that will break a frame. Last one I saw was on a trailquest type event where the riders front wheel stopped dead in a drainage rut at the side of the trail.
Breaking bikes and bits sucks but I'd say that blurry, badly composed pic is an advert FOR Kona's weld quality.
Posted 2 years ago # -
How can warranty be void if raced. Its sold as a race frame!
Thats why I think crash replacement offered.
Shuld have bought carbon...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Mr M-C,
Thanks for that explanation. Far better than my ramblings, and now I see what Brant meant too.
Posted 2 years ago # -
MS, maybe the crash replacement was offered because it was crash damage.
Shuld have bought carbon...
...because carbon frames don't break?
Posted 2 years ago # -
warranty specifically says void if raced.
they can sell you a race frame with a warranty but if you race it no warranty.
Posted 2 years ago # -
How can warranty be void if raced. Its sold as a race frame!
I think you're confusing an express warranty by the manufacturer with an implied warranty, such as the "fit for purpose" definition that gets bandied about a lot.
If the warranty is defined by the manufacturer then they can impose whatever limitations they like, you pays your money and you takes your choice. Some manufacturers offer really comprehensive warranties.
I remember that when Banshee started up, some models in their line-up had a "if you break it, we will warranty it" policy. However these were not XC race frames.If you're arguing that a lightweight race frame isn't "fit for purpose" if it can't withstand what looks like quite a meaty frontal impact, I'm not sure you're correct.
Posted 2 years ago # -
MS, maybe the crash replacement was offered because it was crash damage
Read the whole thread.
Thats the thing, basically everyone has said on here something along the lines of "meaty frontal impact" from the damage.
But what if it was not? Big Impact = Big Damage (Usually)
Small Imapct = Big Damage ( Not usually)
supose its just sods law really. He was unlucky
Posted 2 years ago # -
But what if it was not?
12 stone, fast rider, crash sent him over the bars... hmmm, not seeing much in your posts to support this hypothesis to be honest.
Posted 2 years ago # -
This thread has just made me really paranoid as we had a big frontal impact on the tandem the other day - misjudged a foot high rock step and hit it hard enough to bottom the fork with a clang rather than hopping over it. No cracks or bends in the frame - phew. Crank n fail in being strong shock
Posted 2 years ago # -
TJ, be afraid, VERY afraid.
At least you'll be wearing a helmet when it does let go won't you?
Posted 2 years ago # -
step back a bit - a frame folds when you hit a root?
I certainly wouldn't want to ride a frame that did that
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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step back a bit - a frame folds when you hit a root?
No. A frame folds when it comes to a dead stop suddenly, which happenes to be caused by a root, and chucks the rider over the bars.
Keep up at the back!
Posted 2 years ago # -
I smacked one of Brant's finest into a downed tree a few years back, didn't hit that hard but bust the down tube. I thought a half price crash replacement was bloody good value TBH and bit Brant's arm off for it, didn't even cross my mind that the frame might not be "fit for purpose" stuff bikes into things and they sometimes break...
Posted 2 years ago # -
No. A frame folds when it comes to a dead stop suddenly,.
SOMEONE IS TO BLAAAME!!
crap rider by the sounds of itPosted 2 years ago # -
Shuld have bought carbon...
That is very dangerous advice. If the carbon does fail, you then get splinters in your body, and because these are barbed they migrate towards the heart. You'll end up having whole limbs amputated just to save your life. That doesn't happen with aluminium.
Posted 2 years ago # -
C'mon people, what are you on about, just because it's a race frame doesn't mean that it makes it ok to snap like that!
I've ridden flat out into tree stumps, roots, trees, logs etc at various times over the last 10 years, the bike stops dead, I go over the bars. It's always been on light XC bikes, and none of them have folded in half!
Unless this was a truly mammoth impact that shouldn't have happened IMO.
This thread has achieved one thing, I would never touch a scandium Kona with a barge pole!
Posted 2 years ago # -
njee spot on!
This thread has achieved one thing, I would never touch a scandium Kona with a barge pole!
Agree!!!
The impact does not justify the damage IMO. yes there was an impact but from a route on the trail. If every spill ended in a frame snapping like that then what would be the point in getting a race bike. I race a carbon bike, no problems so far (touch wood). Will look out for thos submarine splinters!!
And if people say crap rider, you can just prove your point in results...
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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