just been properly screwed over - employment content

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just been properly screwed over - employment content

93 posts & 45 voices | Started 10 months ago by alfabus | Latest reply from dangerousbeans

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alfabus - Member

I work for a big software house, X.

My pay is rubbish (compared to my peers and the market as a whole it is about 30-40% adrift).

I have been complaining about pay for years, and have been through every process possible to get a rise. No joy, despite excellent performance reviews and even a promotion this year (still waiting to see what extra money I'll get for the promotion).

I have just moved from London to Cheltenham, to a different office of the same company. Despite hinting at it, they haven't paid me any relocation expenses.

I went for an interview with a different company, Y, who liked me a lot and on Monday offered me a job for 55% more pay, plus they will pay the relocation expenses incurred last month.

Brilliant, thinks I; but I don't particularly dislike my company or job, so I emailed them to say I have a job offer and am thinking of handing in my notice - do they want to make a counter offer?

They didn't make a counter offer... they said their hands were tied and that I should wait to see the results of my promotion pay review. Then they moved on to threatening to contact Y to get my job offer revoked (the two companies work for the same customer and have an anti-poaching agreement - FWIW I was not poached, I approached them, and have never met any of their staff outside my interview).

I hadn't formally accepted the job offer, because I was waiting for some HR signoff on the relocation package they were offering.

This morning I got an email from Y saying "We were previously unaware of who you worked for, and have decided to withdraw our offer... blah blah".

Basically, someone in X has phoned someone in Y and leaned on them to withdraw the offer.

So I am stuck at X on shitty pay and I'm apparently not allowed to get a different job!

I demanded a meeting with some senior people, and they basically said they will help me try to get a payrise (yeah, right), but that there is no way they will let me work for Y.

Bastards.

What should I do?

Dave

Posted 10 months ago #
BoardinBob - Member

Legal advice would be my recommendation. Awful situation to be in

Posted 10 months ago #
alfabus - Member

I don't see that they have done anything outside the law though... they have 'an informal arrangement', but it is Y who have withdrawn the offer - they are perfectly within their rights to do this for whatever reason they choose.

Posted 10 months ago #
andyl - Member

why did you name the other company? doh!

Posted 10 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

1) how could 'Y' not have been aware of who you worked for- did you not submit a cv?

2) the person who made the job offer may not have been aware of the 'non-poachign agreement'

3) even if you go back to 'Y' they're unlikely to issue an offer now.

4) they cannot stop you workign for 'Y' as that's restraint of trade. 'Y' don't have to employ you though.

5) get another job with 'Z' sharpish.

Posted 10 months ago #
5thElefant - Member

Words fail me. What made you think it was a good idea to tell your employer who the offer came from?

Posted 10 months ago #
vinnyeh - Member

That's really shocking. Like said above, get legal advice- did nobody look at your cv?

Oh, and what to do after that? - go contracting- more money, less shit.

Posted 10 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

learn from it. I doubt there is anything much you can do - the mistake was to tell your current company who the new job offer was with.

they of course are telling porkies - the people who offered you the job unless you hid your current employer

Posted 10 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

I'd be thinking long and hard about quitting

Posted 10 months ago #
ridethelakes - Member

Just find another job that isn't connected to your current one.

Doesn't sound like Company X will ever give you a pay rise and it sounds like your worth is 55% more to at least one other company so just go elsewhere.

Posted 10 months ago #
cb - Member

Y is gone -forget about it, you shot yourself in the foot there. Stay at X whilst looking for alternative employment, which sounds feasible given your experience with Y. Forget legal avenues - even if you have a case, its far too stressful.

Why you would even contemplate staying at X in the first place is beyond me. They behave badly and you take it - perhaps you deserve each other? Maybe consider contract work if your are in the IT field - try a few things to find out that there is life outside of X!

Posted 10 months ago #
gonefishin - Member

We were previously unaware of who you worked for, and have decided to withdraw our offer... blah blah".

Sounds to me like an unfair restriction on trade. Proving it might be a different matter.

they are perfectly within their rights to do this for whatever reason they choose.

I doubt that they can withdraw an offer for any reason, they can't withdraw an offer on the basis of someones gender, race or sexual orientation for example. Proper legal advice would be your best bet as would getting a new job. Next time don't try to wangle a counter offer just resign and keep schtum about where you are going.

Posted 10 months ago #
brassneck - Member

Feel for you (I was in a similar situation) but I didn't name any other companies or told them of any offers. I simply stated to my (then new) boss that my responsibilities were well above my pay grade and I was actively seeking employment outside the company. It got sorted, but to be honest it sounds like you're working for a bunch of t*ssers.

'Previously unaware..' I take it they read your CV?? Sound just as bad.

Plenty of work out there (I presume you're a programmer) - find something else, move on. I don't think fighting the tide there will get you anything other than additional stress.

Posted 10 months ago #
winstonsmith - Member

minimal work and maximal new job seeking sounds like the way forward to me

Posted 10 months ago #
andyl - Member

and yup, after the way they have treated you why did you even bother trying to haggle with X? Where you trying to get 60%? If you were then you just played a bad hand and lost!

You also need to dig out your contract and check about working for competitors within X months. Although I do know of cases were the contract doesnt stand if you work in a field that is quite restricted and you need to make a living.

Posted 10 months ago #
allthepies - Member

offered me a job for 55% more pay, plus they will pay the relocation expenses incurred last month.

Posted 10 months ago #
aracer - Member

I don't particularly dislike my company

I'm struggling to understand why.

Posted 10 months ago #
ourmaninthenorth - Member

OK, not going to get sanctimonious about what I'd have done differently. We all have different situations.

I hadn't formally accepted the job offer, because I was waiting for some HR signoff on the relocation package they were offering

This has probably done you as far as any breach of contract claim against company Y. I suspect that, if you were still, as you say, in negotiations on package, the contract hadn't been fully formed.

Basically, someone in X has phoned someone in Y and leaned on them to withdraw the offer.

You're probably into quite a tight and technical area of employment law here - seeking advice from a decent employment lawyer (ie at a proper, not high street, law firm) will give you an answer. It may be that you need to walk away and claim some sort of constructive dismissal.

I wonder also if there's some sort of tortious claim you might bring in damages for the loss of opportunity you would have had if you'd been in a position to formally accept the other role. This feels a bit more nebulous, and so would need some sensible legal advice from a commercial litigator. Definitely way outside my sphere.

My advice: save spending money on legal fees. Find another job with someone else. Bite their hand off.

Good luck.

EDIT: if they are competitors, then there may well be something more serious in their actions in terms of anti-competitive behaviour. Might be worth asking a competition lawyer if there's an angle you can run here. Won't get you anything, but might drop X and Y in the s--t.

Posted 10 months ago #
Papa_Lazarou - Member

LEAVE YOUR CURRENT JOB

then get back to the other firm, tell them u don't work for anyone and are they still interested. If not, get a job with someone else.

Posted 10 months ago #
uplink - Member

Despite hinting at it, they haven't paid me any relocation expenses

Have you thought of an assertiveness course?

Seriously, tell them, don't hint

Posted 10 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

I hadn't formally accepted the job offer, because I was waiting for some HR signoff on the relocation package they were offering.

Had you indicated to them at all that you were accepting the offer? Had they actually offered you the job, or was it conditional on something else (satisfactory references perhaps?)

good stuff here:

http://www.xperthr.co.uk/faqs/topics/2,16/making-job-offers.aspx?articleid=57511&mode=open#57511

Get a solicitor!

Posted 10 months ago #
MSP - Member

You also need to dig out your contract and check about working for competitors within X months. Although I do know of cases were the contract doesnt stand if you work in a field that is quite restricted and you need to make a living.

A HR manager once told me that clause, and the pay back training costs within x years of a course, are totally unenforceable legally, but most companies put it in the contract and get away with it because it is so rarely challenged by a leaving employee.

Posted 10 months ago #
andyl - Member

quit and make it clear you have had enough and going travelling....

change your name

Call up Y...

Posted 10 months ago #
richc - Member

Time for a new job, and next time don't tell them who you are going too.

Posted 10 months ago #
joolsburger - Member

Phone the HR director at the company who offered you a job.

Tell them you are leaving whatever happens and that there must be a way of securing employment with them as you'll only be going elsewhere, work it out and do it.

J

Posted 10 months ago #
stick_man - Member

Sounds like rather than genuinely wanting to take the new job at Y you were using it as leverage to get more pay & expenses from your current job.

This suggests you'd either prefer to work at company X despite it's shortcomings, or perhaps you are anxious about moving jobs for some reason.

Posted 10 months ago #
Jamie - Member

Words fail me. What made you think it was a good idea to tell your employer who the offer came from?

This.

....but sympathy for the shit situation.

Posted 10 months ago #
alfabus - Member

Hindsight is 20:20 and all that. I should have kept quiet.

Don't think I can keep working for them now though. I will be definitely be looking for other jobs; the trouble is that most of the big players in this town are in on the same agreement.

I never thought they would actually phone up and get them to cancel my offer!

Can't really afford to walk at the moment - got a new, expensive mortgage to pay for.

As for assertiveness and telling people to pay me more; this isn't like working in a small company. You are hard pressed to find anyone go will take responsibility for anything, let alone pay and benefits.

Posted 10 months ago #
xiphon - Member

Rule 1 of job hunting - do not tell your current employer you are even thinking about it.

Informing your current employer X of a job offer from company Y - spectacular FAIL!

Posted 10 months ago #
ourmaninthenorth - Member

A HR manager once told me that clause, and the pay back training costs within x years of a course, are totally unenforceable legally

Basically bollox. But what would you expect from a barrack room employment lawyer....

Posted 10 months ago #
ourmaninthenorth - Member

the trouble is that most of the big players in this town are in on the same agreement.

Don't tell them the same thing..!

Posted 10 months ago #
binners - Member

My cousin ended up in pretty much exactly the same position last year. Only slightly worse. He accepted the job with Y and resigned from X.

X then found out that he was going to Y and pointed out that contractually (read that small print) he was forbidden to do so. He sought legal advice and called their bluff. Never underestimate how malicious HR departments and management can be - and yours sound very similar. BE VERY CAREFUL!

X sued him for breech of contract. Y then immediately revoked their offer. He went to court, racked up a stack of legal fees, and lost. All in, it cost him about 20 grand including damages paid to X (again, all in the small print), and he didn't work for 6 months. Nearly went mad due to the stress.

Get some proper legal advice before you do anything!!! There will be people a lot more devious than you will have drawn up that employment contract. Be careful. Oh... and good luck

Posted 10 months ago #
uplink - Member

As for assertiveness and telling people to pay me more

I was referring to the relocation expenses they owe you not trying to get a raise

Posted 10 months ago #
joolsburger - Member

If you approached them it's not poaching pick up the phone and have a word. I'd have thought you could talk your way out of this. However your spectacular lack of discretion may be why they have withdrawn the offer.

Posted 10 months ago #
alfabus - Member

update:

one of the senior people who I met with this morning has requested a meeting with me at 3 because he has spoken to someone even higher up and has some feedback for me.

Posted 10 months ago #

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