Boring boring, sorry! 😀

I’m new to this, never been bothered before, but all my riding for the next 2 months is going to be turbo training post surgery so numbers is the only thing I’ve got!

Haven’t properly maxed out on an FTP test yet (arm still in a sling, wife’s comfy saddle and sitting upright for now) but had a virtual cycle up Alped’Huez a couple of nights ago.

I found that bmp in the low 160s felt like a comfortable effort, easy breathing, very sustainable – maybe all day, certainly for hours.

Above 170 was harder, definitely breathing hard. 180-183 (max recorded, but wasn’t aiming on setting a max) was in and out of anaerobic (I’m basing this on lactic burn in the legs) depending on how hard I was breathing. I don’t know how long I could have kept up a 180+ effort, but I’ve gone harder for longer in cross races and got the whole blood in the back of the throat, exercise-induced asthma thing going on.

Going on the basic 220-age HR zones on the android app – which does actually give 183, I spent an hour and 8 mins in Zone 5, and another 13 mins in Z4.

BKool trainer zoning said 50% time in Z6 (?), 37% in Z5, 11% in Z4. Clearly different zoning, but similar story.

Top zones are supposed to be unsustainable, anaerobic, short effort stuff right? Does this mean my actual max HR is probably quite some way above the 183, or that I’ve got quite high aerobic capacity, so my zones are compressed up the scale?

Or more of one than the other?

Thanks very much for any hints, tips, facts and opinions!

The main thing it means is that 220-age is useless.
You need to do a 30 min FTP test and record HR for the last 20 mins of it.
HR is pretty weird, and is highly variable from person to person, and even for yourself depending on stuff like fatigue/coffee etc.

In general you are right that top zones are supposed to be anaerobic, but if its only a 5 zone system then it’ll record Z5 all the way from LTHR+1, so in theory up to 59 min efforts.

Without a power meter the best thing to do is use your HRM as a point of reference against perceived exertion.

Without a power meter the best thing to do is use your HRM as a point of reference against perceived exertion.

i’m also interested in this a but.. i’m using strava and a HRM, no power meter. strava will not give an estimated FTP value without a power meter being used.

i bought the HRM because i was i was over-exerting on some climbs and wanted to understand better. originally i was logging/reviewing after a ride. a conversation led me to some (non-professional) advice that was basically slow down/stop if past 160. (i don’t know where he pulled this figure, but he’s 10+ years older than me, but was riding 10 years ago..)

strava claims my heart rate max is 190. thats 10 above 220-40 (my age) which would be 180.

now the calculation for LT (lactate threshold) is 85% of Max HR. going by strava’s figures that boils down to 161.. and if i spend too long above 160 i’m done in fairly quickly. so he was right on the money with 160. I just didn’t understand why until now.

Personally I’ve found HR pretty useless for training, (the problem of determining your actual max HR being one of the reasons). Presumably your trainer can use virtual power with Trainerroad/Golden Cheetah? Just use that instead.

220 minus is a basic and yes, not great. Plus IMO, zones are sport specific (from my tri background)

I have tested max on (1) perceived effort basis and (2) full on testing with sports scientist

IME – (1) gave the better result.

I can judge the boundary between Z2 and Z3 – at its simplest, its the point at which I cannot talk easily when running. It is nearly always +/- 2 bpm away from the level generated by (1) ie 151bpm. Its very consistent. From this you can easily calc the other zones.

I have ignored results from (2) – the levels are too high for me to sustain but have raced and trained around (1). I use the Karvonen formula (ie incorporating resting HR) and set target zones depending on intensity of training/length of race involved. I also adjust (downwards) for bike and then again for swim due to weight-bearing effects.

Its trendy to knock HR methods but they work for me.

Oh and for KISS read John L Parkers Heart Rate Training book. So simple – avoid Z3!

now the calculation for LT (lactate threshold) is 85% of Max HR. going by strava’s figures that boils down to 161.. and if i spend too long above 160 i’m done in fairly quickly. so he was right on the money with 160.

Basing LTHR off MHR is totally useless. If I followed that formula my LTHR would be 159, however its actually 172.

(the problem of determining your actual max HR being one of the reasons)

Total non-issue as MHR is useless anyway.

Presumably your trainer can use virtual power

Also quite useless, i’m on my 3rd ‘identical’ trainer (lifetime warranty – yay!), and all 3 have had different resistance curves to each other, and also have a wildly different curve before they ‘warm up’ which can be anything up to 45 mins depending on ambient temperature and power output.

HRMs also vary apparently!? things like fitbit are notoriously dodgy!

(i’m using a wahoo tickr).

all i can say is.. it hasn’t been useless for me. backing off around 160 has stopped wiping me out and month on month (not week on week!) i’m definitely taking longer to hit that mark and therefore surviving longer. so maybe my LT is higher. it would give the same result (as i’d still be easeing off before my LT) but historical data shows.. i need a lot of rest if i push beyond 160 for too long.

what does your “actually its..” value come from?

Best way to find your heart rate zones, is to firstly ignore the calculation 220- age.
Secondly actually physically take yourself to your max.

Find minimum (base) heart rate, by wearing heart rate monitor when you first wake up in the morning over
3-4 mornings and take an average.

For maximum, warm up on turbo for 10 minutes, then ride at as higher pace as you can sustain for 5 minutes (to fatigue yourself), then bring back down to a gentle spin for 10 minutes, then go all out at a pace as high as you can sustain for 20 minutes, somewhere in there should be your max reading.

If you are doing lots of turbo work, i find the Sufferfest vids good, they actually do one for setting HR/ FTP called “Rubber Glove”

what does your “actually its..” value come from?

See post #2 in thread:

You need to do a 30 min FTP test and record HR for the last 20 mins of it.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/04/determining-your-lthr.html

Grand. Thanks all, I was half expecting TL;DR at best!

I’ll not worry too much about it until I get the LTHR test done.

Cheers for the link, fifeandy!

In the meantime – just run a few times and note the HR that equates to not being able to speak easily. and work from there.