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Hi fi – "clean" mains
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jondFree Member
>and it'll sound like shit
I think it's come on a long way – saw some figures on something recently and was surprised it was something less than 0.1% thd.
~0.01%:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1358802
http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/40-06/class_d.pdf(No, I'm not gonna get into an argument about 'it's not all thd') – this stuff's primarily aimed at being efficient – high power and compact/low dissipation, or portable)
AdamTFull MemberAlso, I wasn't refering to PWM being ok for hifi per se, I was refering to it being OK for me to get my head around. But then it's not uncommon for people to get the wrong end of the stick on an internet forum 🙂
Jon, have you actually listened to PWM with your own ears eh? I would have thought the low freq attenuation of your facial hair and standing waves created round your sandals would cause sufficient cross-coupling combobulation to affect both the highlights and soundstage. 😉
2unfit2rideFree Membersimonfbarnes – Member
Listening to the sound of the sound would be entirely beside the point.
Balls, for the first time ever I have to agree with SFB, ****, **** & **** 🙁
simonfbarnesFree Member>and it'll sound like shit
I think it's come on a long way – saw some figures on something recently and was surprised it was something less than 0.1% thd.
I meant the motor :o)
I recall Clive Sinclair selling a PWM hifi amp back in about 1970 🙂
BlackhoundFull MemberA bit OT but a few years ago I had a seperate spur for my hi-fi with round pin plugs installed. Cost ~£300, pretty cheap for a hi-fi upgrade. Happy enough (Linn / Naim set up)
jondFree Member>I meant the motor :o)
I thought you probably were 😉
Dunno if you remember Elektor magazine back in the 70s/80s, they couldn't seem to get past a half year without feeling obliged to lob in a class D amp !Yer cheek git Ads 😉
I may have the
a) beard
b) CAMRA membership
c) recumbent
– but sandals really *are* a no-go zone !In any case, anything will sounds like sh*t if you lob Pantera thru' it on 11 🙂
cynic-alFree MemberThanks for the informative comments – I think I "get it" now.
SFB keep listening to the sound! I'll keep improving mine.
simonfbarnesFree MemberSFB keep listening to the sound!
I used the word music intentionally! Sound is frequency, amplitude and phase, music is emotion and impact.
mudsharkFree MemberSome people use car batteries, apparently Rolls Royce ones are the best – well they would be right?!
simonfbarnesFree Memberapparently Rolls Royce ones are the best
…with the finest K-Y jelly on the terminals, none of that downmarket vaseline shite!
joolsburgerFree MemberIt's worth putting a supressor on a fridge or boiler if it's putting a big click through your speakers, all the rest of it is worthless IMHO.
Most interference is airbourne RF, not down the mains and almost every decent bit of kit has appropriate mains filtering built in.
My mobile and cordless phones are a nightmare with my hifi but mains has never been an issue, I think it's marketing guys, I really do.
Clearaudio/ Lavardin/ Audio Physic in case you wondered.
MrWoppitFree MemberIf you are using reference-level Hi Fidelity equipment that is designed to work to it's maximum ability by using a "clean" electricity supply, then it's better to make sure that it has exactly that, IME. A power supply box takes the spiky and uneven mains supply, smooths it to a regular wave form and then presents it to the equipment (CD player, Pre-amp etc).
Using equipment designed to run better with a Power Supply Unit without one, is like putting road slicks on a Mountain Bike.
MrWoppitFree MemberWhat, so it performs better?
Don't understand your question. How would a Mountain Bike with slicks on "perform better"?
simonfbarnesFree Memberthat is designed to work to it's maximum ability by using a "clean" electricity supply,
also known as 'broken'
coming soon:
1) cars without steering or suspension designed for optimal straight, flat roads
2) keyboards with no backspace or delete keys for error-free typists
3) external bottom brackets for mud free environmentsI_did_dabFree MemberSerious answer – top marks to the bloke above who recommended an UPS.
We have an NMR instrument in our labs which uses a lot of high spec amplifiers and is particularly fussy about its mains supply. An UPS was recommended by the manufacturer to do the job.zokesFree MemberAm I the only person to spot the irony of someone called 'Cynic-al' asking this question, but hoping that the cynics stay away?
simonfbarnesFree MemberWe have an NMR instrument in our labs which uses a lot of high spec amplifiers
stand by for neutron-mediated hifi 🙂
Am I the only person to spot the irony of someone called 'Cynic-al' asking this question, but hoping that the cynics stay away?
we did that yesterday 🙂 He's cynical about cynicism, favouring subjective credulity (as well he might)
honeybadgerFree MemberI'm new here and just wanted advice on bikes as I'm getting back into bikes but saw your post. I know there are crazy levels this can be taken but I use a Music Works socket block. I didn't do blindfold test or anything but came highly recommended by people i respect and I think sounds good. My turntable is a Linn LP12/Lingo with a Naim Aro arm and Kontrapunkt B cartridge and my overall system sounds as good as i need it to. Mates who work in studios say it sounds like when they are cutting music live, so that's high praise…
crikeyFree MemberMy mates who work in a bike shop told me my bike is the bestest they've ever sold.
I'm still waiting to find out if any of this high end stuff is used by people who've had their hearing tested on a regular basis.
Given that hearing loss with age is a recognised phenomenon, and that exposure to loud music is one of the ways that hearing loss can occur, how can you all be sure that you've not bought stuff that you can't hear?
I_did_dabFree MemberI did once read a letter in a hi-fi mag from someone who claimed to work at the national grid and said that his hi-fi sounded better when the supply was coming from a nuclear power plant rather than coal. Spoof or sad, I was never sure…
MrWoppitFree Memberalso known as 'broken'
coming soon:
1) cars without steering or suspension designed for optimal straight, flat roads
2) keyboards with no backspace or delete keys for error-free typists
3) external bottom brackets for mud free environmentsThe problem with trying to cram more than one functionality (ie: power amp/power supply/DAC/laser etc) into one box is that the performance quality of each will suffer. The whole point of (ideally) producing one box-per-function HiFi is that the end performance is optimised…
Your first analogy is actually very good – if what you are doing is trying to deliver a musical audio signal to the ear as true as possible to the sound source – ie: drive in a straight line, you do indeed not need any "steering" or "suspension". Or if you prefer – graphic equalisers or balance controls!
DelFull Memberand i bet it gives you a real VFM feeling when a stereo comes in lots of boxes…
crikeyFree MemberSlaps head….
It's not actually about the music!
I get it now!
The parallels with mountain biking are uncanny, the idea that the bike is more important than the actual riding…
I must be getting slow in my old age…
MrWoppitFree MemberSlaps head….
It's not actually about the music!
Bizarre conclusion – the technology is all about delivering the music better… Presumably you think it's all just about the technology, for some reason?
simonfbarnesFree Membersounded better when the supply was coming from a nuclear power plant rather than coal
you need to be sure the control rods are boron or the sound stage goes to hell 🙁
crikeyFree Memberthe technology is all about delivering the music better…
Sure it is fella, sure it is… 🙄
…that's why in the whole recent hi-fi threads the only reference to music was to a squeaky drum pedal.
Anyway, as you were.
MrWoppitFree MemberNot really – that was just an example of the delivery of the original sound source with accuracy and it's occasional drawbacks, if I remember correctly.
Sure it is fella, sure it is…
No need to patronise, thanks…
chuffnutsFull MemberI'm not getting into the mains/cables argument, I know what I hear. As someone who has made a living in this industry for 12 years I can recommend a Vertex AQ Jaya filter, the difference it made to my kit was staggering for the price and unlike other filters it didn't stifle dynamics. I have in my time time tried many different filters from DIY to PS Audio and Burmester (the best but £8k+), the Vertex is really very good value.
ooOOooFree MemberI think your high-end hearing goes when you get older, so why do these old fart reviewers bother buying tweeters?!
chuffnutsFull MemberI think your high-end hearing goes when you get older, so why do these old fart reviewers bother buying tweeters?!
Agreed, most just 'feel' their way to a review conclusion….helped by how friendly they are with the supplier of course!
simonfbarnesFree MemberOld but good:
P.W.B. Special One Drop Liquid possesses a most extraordinary property. The human senses, in common with the requirements of all living material including trees and all other green plants, have evolved the requirements for forward facing light energy.Light, in common with most energies within Nature, readily forms an inverse pattern of itself when encountering an obstacle. Light is particularly modified when encountering a transparent obstacle. The human senses will not function correctly when confronted with an energy pattern which faces away from the senses.
The daily dietary requirement of salt and sugar is the chemical requirement that the body requires to manipulate the energy patterns absorbed by our bodies. To demonstrate the inverse pattern formation on objects which fill the modern environment, simply place salt on one face and sugar on another face of the object. Stimulate your sense of hearing by listening to music, then remove the salt and sugar. The effect on the senses is usually quite profound. The effect is particularly noticeable if the faces of a NON playing Compact Disc or vinyl record is manipulated by placing salt (in a small bag) on one face and sugar (in a small bag) on the other face.
All green plant material has it's own variation of salt and sugar in order for it to correctly manipulate sunlight. If a small bag containing sugar is attached to the upper surface of a leaf within your listening territory, including the garden, a noticeable beneficial effect will take place with your sense of hearing. A small bag containing salt can be attached to the underside of the leaf with the same beneficial effect.
P.W.B. Special One Drop Liquid can replace, with an increased effect, salt and sugar applied to the faces of an object, including to the faces of green plant life. The Special One Drop Liquid admits only forward facing light energy.
All Compact Discs should have a drop of the Special One Drop Liquid applied to both sides and spread across the surface using a finger tip. The surface can be dried with a cloth or a paper tissue. Vinyl records should have a drop of the Liquid applied to the particular area on the record which has the run off groove on both sides of the disc. The outside faces of the disc sleeve or disc housing should also be treated.
To ascertain the effect of the One Drop Liquid on any object, it is only necessary to initially stand the small bottle containing the Liquid on the face of the object. ALL transparent material within a listening room, including glass windows, clock faces, wrist watch faces, TV screens, the lenses of eye glasses etc. and display windows on equipment should all be treated. It is only necessary to apply one drop of the Liquid to the corner of a glass window for the beneficial effect to be heard.
The One Drop Liquid is particularly effective if applied to the rear of a photograph and to the glass face of a photographic frame. Artificial light, in the form of electrical light bulbs, has a particularly detrimental effect upon the sense of hearing and the glass of an electric light bulb should be treated.
The P.W.B. Special One Drop Liquid can be applied over all previously applied P.W.B. Foils
****************
The P.W.B. Special One Drop Liquid is supplied in a small 15ml bottle which is capable of applying the Liquid in single drop quantities.
ooOOooFree MemberVertex AQ Jaya-
Background hash and grunge is significantly reduced
Wow, that's a whole new aspect to my music that I'd never worried about before! I feel like when the toothpaste people started worrying me about "acid erosion".
CountZeroFull MemberWow, Crimson monoblocks, didn't think there was anyone around even knew what they were. Don't use mine since the control board on my Logic DM101 went tits-up, but maybe one day I'll get it fixed and start playing my old vinyl again. I used mains plugs with components installed to smooth spikes and surges, which I used to have some problems with. Never bothered about fancy cables, just used 30A solid core mains cable. Bugger to bend 'round tight corners, mind.
JCLFree MemberPassive mains devices are BS. Active regeneration works but you pay for it.
chuffnutsFull MemberPassive mains devices are BS. Active regeneration works but you pay for it.
Because?
MrWoppitFree MemberAh yes, PWB. Peter Belt is still around, somewhere. Last I heard, he was recommending having a picture of a dog on the coffee table whilst listening – although apparently pictures of black labradors worked best… 😯
Still waiting for an explanation of "VFM", by the way…
iamtheresurrectionFull MemberI can understand how a mains conditioner *might* effect something like a valve, but a digital front end or amp full of transistors? What are we thinking could happen with clean/dirty mains?
EDIT: Actually, I can't understand. But I could imagine… 😉
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