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Halal Meat

60 posts & 32 voices | Started 2 years ago by trailmonkey | Latest reply from trailmonkey

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richc - Member

anyone on here watch the kill it, cook it, eat it program. After watching that I am a committed meatatrian.

The animals didn't suffer, and to tell the truth within fractions of a seconds they were stunned and wouldn't have known what was going on.

Yes they to wait in line, however how it was handled was humane and minimized stress on the animals, and I was surprised at just how much the butcher could tell from the carcass about how it was killed (ie: if it has been over stunned, if they had killed it quickly etc).

Even some of the more reasonable vegetarians/vegans mentioned that *if* that is how all slaughterhouses function then if the animals had to be killed for food, than that is how it should be done.

Posted 2 years ago #
enfht - Member

No, I simply threw in the racist insult to sound more offensive.

Which is exactly the same trap RudeBoy fell into getting him banned.

This post is an obvious troll, however...

If I were a hostage in Iraq and about to meet my maker at the end of a blade I would definitely want to be pre-stunned.
I once, very-stupidly, watched an Al-Qaeda beheading video and it's not quick or painless. Halal is medieval.

I think it's hilarious how various celebrity chefs have drummed animal welfare down our necks whilst totally side stepping halal and similar methods of slaughter.

Posted 2 years ago #
backhander - Member

I've killed allsorts, some with my hands. Never for fun (or sport) mind and I certainly didn't enjoy it. Always in the quickest way possible.
I wish I could go veggie.

Posted 2 years ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

Are you saying that ........

I'm saying that I don't know.

The thought of slowly becoming weaker as the life drains away from my body as I bleed, doesn't sound particularly more horrific than a bullet lodged in my brain.

Personally, I think I would rather be aware that I was dying than it happening instantly without my knowledge. After all, dying is a big deal - it only happens once in your lifetime, so I don't think I would want to miss it.

Of course none of this applies to animals.

Posted 2 years ago #
BigDummy - Member

How on earth does "medical science" measure how much it hurts to be shot dead? I share ernie's scepticism.

If you ask people (and presumably cows) "shot, bled or neither?" you're going to get a very heavy take-up for "neither".

If you ask factory farmed cows "shot or bled?" there must be a considerable risk that they are going to reply "WTF is this, some sort of sick joke? I've been kept for 2 years in a barn full of shit being fed hormones and bran and wading around ankle deep in slurry. Do you think I give a monkey's toss one way or the other? I have no certain beliefs about what death feels like, or even involves in a metaphysical sense, so just get on with it. Do whatever suits you best and stop being such a self-righteous hypocritical fanny! Moo."

Posted 2 years ago #
BoardinBob - Member

I'm a meat eater. I f*cking love it. I'm also acutely aware that the animals didn't die in their sleep on a huge silk pillow.

Putting myself in the position of the animal I can't say I have a real clear preference between being hung upside down and having my throat slit or being hung upside down, electrocuted, then having my throat slit.

As was mentioned above, unless you're a vegan, you can't really complain about any particular method of killing animals as they're all pretty brutal.

The other night I had a blazing row with the wife, who's suddenly decided she's vegatarian and was disgusted at scenes on the Jamie Oliver programme. I told her to go into her wardrobe and throw out all her boots, shoes, belts and bags if she feels so strongly about the ethical treatment of animals.

Then I punched her in the ovaries.

Posted 2 years ago #
surfer - Member

How on earth does "medical science" measure how much it hurts to be shot dead? I share ernie's scepticism.

Medical science tells us pain is none existent in the shooting scenario I painted. Or are you saying you suspect there may be a degree of pain involved?
One thing is for sure bleeding to death would cause at least the physiological stress I mentioned and almost certainly physical pain also.

The rest of your post is immaterial as my point is addressed specifically at Ernie's comment relating to his own choice.

Posted 2 years ago #
kimbers - Member

Then I punched her in the ovaries.
did you stun her with an electric charge first?

Posted 2 years ago #
BigDummy - Member

Medical science tells us

So you've said. How does it actually know? I'm genuinely curious. Getting people to fill out the questionnaire must be pretty tricky.

Posted 2 years ago #
hels - Member

Groan. More shite copied straight from the BNP website. "my mother-in-law said + made up racist slur with some other issues thrown in to justify debate". Be more cynical please people !!

Posted 2 years ago #
surfer - Member

Medical science tells us

So you've said. How does it actually know? I'm genuinely curious. Getting people to fill out the questionnaire must be pretty tricky.

Given the grim choice I know which one I would choose. Look on the bright side with your skepticism and Ernie's choice you could at least fill out the questionnaire while you waited!

Posted 2 years ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

.....Ernie's comment relating to his own choice.

Yes, but let's no forget that I said I wasn't sure what would be preferable.

Although ....... I'm reminded of that famous quote from Che Guevara (and the last words he ever uttered) :

"I know you are here to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man."

.

So on reflection ........... I'll go for the bullet

.......... will I be allowed a 'last cigar' please ?

Posted 2 years ago #
enfht - Member

Maybe they should have slit Che's throat then and let him slowly bleed to death

Posted 2 years ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

More shite copied straight from the BNP

Eh ? am I reading that wrong, or are you suggesting that trailmonkey is a racist/BNP supporter ?

You'll struggle to find someone more anti-BNP than trailmonkey.

Posted 2 years ago #
nickc - Member

Don't eat that much meat anyway, but I can't imagine that Halal is much worse than trad. methods of butchery.

About the pain though, I can remember Alex Zanardi saying of the crash that amputated both his legs above the knee and resulted in almost fatal loss of blood, that he felt little or no pain, which is about the only thing I can think of that comes close to bleeding to death

Posted 2 years ago #
juan - Member

Then I punched her in the ovaries.

Class...

Posted 2 years ago #
barnsleymitch - Member

Is that like 'kicking her back doors in' ?

Posted 2 years ago #
trailmonkey - Member

Groan. More shite copied straight from the BNP website. "my mother-in-law said + made up racist slur with some other issues thrown in to justify debate". Be more cynical please people !!

If by that you are insinuating that I am from the BNP then you really couldn't be a whole lot further from the truth. The story is 100% real and my question that there may be more to the situation than at first seems, is genuine.
Your attempt to look wise has in fact made you look as narrow minded as the type of people that you hope to condemn. Good work.

As for those with something above key stage 2 to contribute, I think I agree with Che. If it was any big deal to worry about animal welfare then a rich tradition of factory farm produce should be enough to keep her out of all the major supermarkets. On the question of whether Halal slaughter is less humane than stunning, I feel that it is but let's face is, at that point death is probably an end to the suffering.

Posted 2 years ago #
PeterPoddy - Member

I see where the OP is coming from. He's not too bothered about the boycotting of Asda, just that Halal meat might not be slaughtered humanely, yes?

To that end I pretty much agree with him. I wouldn't eat it on principal either.
I've stopped buying as much intensively farmed meat as I can already since I learned how it was treated. I'm not bothered what the 'reality' of it is, but I've made my choice

(and I've caught killed and eaten my own fish, and helped gut birds my dad shot too)

Posted 2 years ago #
IvanDobski - Member

Is there any sort of Halal farming system or does anything go up untill the point of slaughter?

Posted 2 years ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

Is there any sort of Halal farming system

I've always known that cruelty to animals is considered 'sinful' to Muslims (although it doesn't mean of course that it doesn't go on) but it would appear that this extends to 'factory farming' :

Islamic law says that in order for meat to be considered halal, very specific procedures must be followed. Muhammad forbade “the beating or the branding of animals” and also forbade “cutting off animals' tails and other mutilations.” A person must recite the name of Allah over the animal before it is killed, and the animal's throat must be cut in order to ensure a quick and relatively painless death. Factory farms, which employ all varieties of inhumane methods for raising and slaughtering animals, do not comply with these standards. Furthermore, Muslims are not permitted to eat carnivorous animals, yet many factory farms feed animal remains to livestock.

http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j28/islamic-veg.asp

Posted 2 years ago #
joolsburger - Member

Race isn't the issue here, stupidity is. Believing that some omnipotent being somehow commanded that unless your dinner bled to death it's somehow unclean is frankly an attitude that belongs in the dark ages.

Religion. is. such. crap.

Posted 2 years ago #
Flaperon - Member

Sorry, but if stunning the animal makes the slaughter that little bit less unpleasant, then not doing it because [God / Allah / Tooth Fairy/ Flying Spaghetti Monster] is unacceptable.

If I knew I was going to have my throat cut, I'd be happier with a stun gun first than someone chanting "Allah!" and waving the knife around in front of me.

Posted 2 years ago #
aP - Member

A chef friend of mine buys halal meat as she reckons that the quality of the meat is the best she can buy. Makes you think, eh?
I think that most people in the UK have little idea how the small plastic wrapped pieces of "quality" protein with added salt and water get onto the supermarket shelves and are usually pretty disturbed by any mention of the industrial processes involved.

Posted 2 years ago #
trailmonkey - Member

In fairness aP, the best quality meat in that area may well be from a halal source. The best quality meat in my area may be from a catholic owned slaughter house or butcher. Doesn't really prove much.

Posted 2 years ago #