A short explanation: the CDC is the US Government’s Centre for Disease Control and Prevention. They have set standards for Lyme Disease testing and treatment since they first recognised it in the US (at Old Lyme, Connecticut). The following linky shows serious criticism of the CDC. It is long, but is worth the effort, it gets to LD about half way…

CDC Scientists “Directed to Do Things We Know Aren’t Right”

The UK health authority has followed the CDC’s lead in LD.

The Lyme Disease seems to go under the radar in terms of the damage it can cause to people for whatever reasons. I think it is due to the difficulty in detecting or identifying it until it becomes too late. I was watching so many Youtube clips regarding this disease where all point to the difficulty in detecting the cause after the disease is seen as “cured”.

I also looked at the way ticks “take a ride” on people by waiting (ambush) at tip of grass or taller plant. One particular scary Youtube clip was the scientist walking in some of the taller bushes and he managed to get at least 10 ticks on his body after a short while.

If you are in a grassland or bushes try to avoid brushing the “tall” grass or bush if you can and especially areas full of animals.

There should more research etc into this disease as it is spreading.

A colleague caught the Lyme disease and nearly died from it. He was never the same again even after he “recovered” from it.

Thanks sog, shall take a read.

The Lyme Disease seems to go under the radar in terms of the damage it can cause to people for whatever reasons.

chewkw – Money. Vested interests.

chewkw – senior people who have dug themselves into holes, and are still digging.

the CDC is the US Government’s Centre for Disease Control and Prevention

Not according to Urban Dictionary its not 🙂

Apparently I have “traces” or indications of lymes disease in some blood tests – my missus thinks it explains a LOT of things…. me I think I am just difficult.

The post Lymes disease for everyone is very different because of the way the virus/bacteria/parasites (whatever you call it) that will morph to hide themselves.

The normal antibiotic will only kill off some of them virus/bacteria/parasites while some still remain in your body. It is the ones that are still in your system that will cause your life to be miserable and worst case scenario “pretend” to be seen as other illness so that you are diagnosed for other illness which is not really there.

I have the feeling that this disease is like parasite trying to turn you into some sort of host or drone to help them replicate in others. Hence, there are some people passing their illness to their children.

Bear in mind, if this is a parasite illness it will attempt to control you.

From the Lyme disease medical experts they have indicated that all Lyme disease will morph into something very different from individual to individual. One common antibiotic will not cure you and currently some of the bacteria etc have managed to evade being detected.

People who caught Lyme disease may have very different symptoms that come and go for many years without realising the root cause of their problem.

It is still unsure if people who caught Lyme disease can be completed cured at this moment.

A short explanation: the CDC is the US Government’s Centre for Disease Control and Prevention. They have set standards for Lyme Disease testing and treatment since they first recognised it in the US (at Old Lyme, Connecticut). The following linky shows serious criticism of the CDC. It is long, but is worth the effort, it gets to LD about half way…

CDC Scientists “Directed to Do Things We Know Aren’t Right”

The UK health authority has followed the CDC’s lead in LD.

That was a good find slowoldgit, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Nothing surprises me any more, there’s too many with power who’re being financially rewarded for their intransigence.

PS Any tips for dealing with insomnia?

There’s what I learned working shifts-on-ships: be careful about coffee, sunlight resetting one’s body clock, sticking to a routine. Since then don’t let it get to you: hot drink, stay warm, read something you’re comfortable with.

Oddly I tried Ovaltine and it seemed to cause me to wake early. I suspect the chocolate content, for I don’t have it otherwise, being a stimulant of sorts.

Background noises don’t bother me, but if they did I’d try having gentle music playing. It works for small children ISTR.

(edit) The link comes from a LD support group on FB, I understand you don’t like the idea of FB, but I’ll suggest you need a contact there for thyroid issues.

It is still unsure if people who caught Lyme disease can be completed cured at this moment.

Depends what your definition of cure is. If you mean symptom free, then yes, it is absolutely possible. Even indefinitely. However, it may be that there are persisters that your immune system keeps in check. It’s still not clear.

Any tips for dealing with insomnia?

If you are happy to use pharmaceuticals, then Amitriptyline works wonders for sleep and fibromyalgia, even at low doses.

Otherwise, Melatonin or 5htp.

Master herbalist Stephen Buhner recommends Ashwagandha too http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/symptoms/herb-for-insomnia/

I heard recently that the GP’s in Callander nr Stirling have all become recognised as experts in this area due to the high levels of infection.

Interesting OP (and subsequent posts Chewk). Thanks.

A colleague caught the Lyme disease and nearly died from it. He was never the same again even after he “recovered” from it.

Care to elaborate? What were the long term implications?

One for those in Scotland: a couple of folk at the University of the Highlands & Islands are doing quite a bit of work on the background to the infected tick and human populations.
Anecdotally, there seems to be a lot of it around so raising awareness and asking folk to do the checking has to be better than getting infected.

http://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/CheckforTicks1/

Speaking of Buhner, this is a very insightful talk regarding current challenges with Lyme disease, hosted by Daniel Vitalis. I respect Buhner hugely for his work – endlessly researching and treating thousands over the years.

http://www.danielvitalis.com/rewild-yourself-podcast/zombie-ticks-and-the-lyme-wars

Absolutely worth a listen if you have an interest in the disease. Some entertaining moments too.

I’ve had years of treatment and still I’m not well

I can manage to get to work. Travelling can be a problem. Most weekends are spent recovering from the week. It can quite easily get you down.

I can manage to get to work. Travelling can be a problem. Most weekends are spent recovering from the week. It can quite easily get you down.

That sounds pretty horrendous and much like my own experience when I was misdiagnosed for 4 years. It becomes about just getting through the day. Sleep is a release.

Do you mind me asking…Have you tried a full course of multi agent antibiotics? i.e. not just a mono therapy of Doxycycline? Any herbal approaches?

Most weekends are spent recovering from the week. It can quite easily get you down.

I’ve been there too. Stick at it, there’s pressure building for change.

MCPH – I believe it can mess with the victim’s heart. Obviously I don’t know about the individual referred to.

One scientist got booted from the CDC for a conflict of interest, the rest is abject BS – this SPIDER group has not entered dialogue with mainstream media – the only reference to it is in conspiracory and alternative medicine websites.

Currently loling my balls off at the suggestion of treating lymes with herbs.

For Tom_W1987

Parsley

HTH

😉

Just out of interest OP, how long have you had lymes and what current treatement are you having from your GP?

lyme s

Parsley

Hngggggggggg……..must resist….must not take the piss….mu…..and this my friends…..is why Brexit happened.

#posttruthsilliness

😆

xx

😉

Currently loling my balls off at the suggestion of treating lymes with herbs.

Many pharmaceuticals are based around herbal therapies.

Example – Artemisinin was used as a primary cure for malaria for YEARS. The WHO has recommended artemisinin combination therapies (ACT) be the first-line therapy.

Artemisinin is isolated from the plant, sweet wormwood.

You’ve just made yourself look a bit ignorant I’m afraid 😉

P.S. It’s “Lyme Disease” not Lymes. Or Borellia if you want to use the more appropriate term.

Note isolated…..meaning that it’s produced in known amounts and concentrations and prescribed at clinically relevant doses. None of which you can be sure of when munching down on your herbs.

Justifying herbal remedies by stating that some real medicines (actually loads are) are derived from them, shows real ignorance of the scientific method and drug development.

Nah, no “munching” going on here.

If you have any passing interest in Lyme disease or treatments and haven’t just popped in to take the piss, I would recommend reading the book “Healing Lyme”.

All of it is backed by peer-reviewed research, actual solid science and evidence of successful herbal treatment with thousands of patients either combined with antibiotics or not. In many cases, people have been healed where antibiotics have failed.

Would I replace antibiotics with herbs alone? No. But it doesn’t make it less efficacious.

2015 Ed.

I’ll check the book out, but I could get randomly generated tosh published in a crap peer reviewed journal. Publications dont make something true.

You dont have any pharmacovigilance data on mixing these herbs with antibiotics – so suggesting these things could actually harm someone.

I’ll check the book out, but I could get randomly generated tosh published in a crap peer reviewed journal. Publications dont make something true.

Agreed.

I’ll let you make your own mind up. It’s worth a read though, whether you buy into the concept of non pharma therapy or not.

Why is not a suprise to me at all that he “majored” at Berkley in the 60’s lol. The place that brought us such wonderful escapades like killing fully grown elephants with massive doses of LSD.

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=676&st=0&sk=t&sd=a;

The heart as an organ of perception

Molecular self-organization

The use of direct perception in diagnosis and healing

Earth-centered Spirituality and Ceremony

Cultural Expressions of Nature Spirituality

Cross-cultural Contemplative Spirituality

I love stereotypes, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.

Yep, a hippy. I’d judge him by his work though.

I mean, what else did you expect a herbalist to look like? 😆

Book, cover, etc

makecoldplayhistory – Member
Care to elaborate? What were the long term implications?

Fatigue. He cannot work long hour. If I am not mistaken also headache but definitely fatigue.

I think he got the bull eye red circle bite and was out of work for I think 3 months or more. Then struggled to get up to speed when he got back but somehow he managed to work until his retirement 5 years ago.

I have not heard of Lyme disease or tick borne disease at all prior to his case and I thought he was just either making it up or he was just allergic to something …

Not sure about the long term implications but according to the Youtube medical experts it will vary according to individuals. Apparently the antibiotic cannot remove/target all the bacteria from Lyme disease as it has the potential to “hide”. Hence, doctors who are not specialised in Lyme disease will always diagnose it as something else.

Apparently the antibiotic cannot remove/target all the bacteria from Lyme disease as it has the potential to “hide”.

That’s more or less the case.

There are varying forms of Lyme Borrelia that have been identified depending upon their environment. When under stress from antibiotics, they can create encysted forms that are much more resistant. In this form they become mostly dormant, but can’t be eradicated as easily by many tetracyclines such as Doxycyline. Therefore other antibiotics such as Flagyl or Fasigyn have to be employed that can break through these cysts. Unfortunately these are much harder on the body and more expensive, hence why they are not employed as first-line options.

However, use these for long enough and you will potentially eradicate the Borrelia. Different antibiotics have differing abilities to penetrate tissue and so on. Like any organism, Borrelia try to locate themselves where they feel safest where some antibiotics may not be able to penetrate sufficiently to eradicate the last of the Borrelia – one example is across the blood brain barrier.

Not everyone’s immune system is strong enough or primed to kill these last Borrelia, so in these persons they re-appear from their encysted forms and it starts all over again.

This is the point where herbs can come in very useful, as they can be tolerated for much longer periods of time, if not indefinitely. This allows those who could not recover from antibiotics, due to intolerance or side effects to keep a maintenance dose going forward. Alternatively, patients could use them for longer (months to years) to kill the last of the Borrelia, something that would leave them in a sorry state if they were on antibiotics for that time.

In the end, if your immune system is compromised, which often happens with chronic lyme, it becomes a struggle to recover.

There is obviously far more science to it, but that’s an overview in layman’s terms.

flipiddy – Member
Not everyone’s immune system is strong enough or primed to kill these last Borellia, so in these persons they re-appear from their encysted forms and it starts all over again.

Lyme Borellia <= that’s one of the culprit as it can attach to your cell or something like that.

This scare the shite out of me as I listened to the patient recalling symptoms reappearing after so many years because the root cause has not been eradicated.

This is the point where herbs can come in very useful, as they can be tolerated for much longer periods of time, if not indefinitely.

The question is what herbs? Where from? Who has such knowledge?

I remember trimming yew hedges and bagging up the cuttings to be picked up by a truck. They were used to make tamoxifen, I believe.

The question is what herbs? Where from? Who has such knowledge?

Buhner has everything you need to know really. If you have Lyme or know someone who has been touched by Lyme, really do buy his book. It’s a good read – once finished, if you’re struggling to source any of the rarer herbs drop me an email. I can point you towards reputable vendors.

Cowden is another one, everything is packaged by Nutramedix, easy to source, but it is a lot more expensive.

They vary in approach, but success rates are more or less the same between both protocols from what I’ve seen of online polls.

I would say that these should be considered complementary or last resort options to antibiotics in case they have failed. First and foremost should be a trip to a “Lyme literate” doctor (of which there are not many in the UK). Sensible safety warning over.

There’s what I learned working shifts-on-ships: be careful about coffee, sunlight resetting one’s body clock, sticking to a routine. Since then don’t let it get to you: hot drink, stay warm, read something you’re comfortable with.

Oddly I tried Ovaltine and it seemed to cause me to wake early. I suspect the chocolate content, for I don’t have it otherwise, being a stimulant of sorts.

Background noises don’t bother me, but if they did I’d try having gentle music playing. It works for small children ISTR.

(edit) The link comes from a LD support group on FB, I understand you don’t like the idea of FB, but I’ll suggest you need a contact there for thyroid issues.

Thanks sog. Have often wondered about going to bed as soon as darkness falls and getting up at first light.

I know, I should join the Lyme fb group. Shall think about it some more! Thyroid issues all dialled but it’s the chronic (as defined by private doctor) Lyme that’s the problem. This hasn’t happened recently, I’ve definitely had this for a good few years although unable to pinpoint the exact year.

Thanks to flipiddy for some very informative posts.