Stay off your trails? Really?

Your 70% of the work figure very clearly shows you haven’t ridden one, don’t understand how they work and don’t know what you are talking about.

A fully electric bike would have to have significantly more power than an e bike to work off road. Power that would damage trails and spoil other people’s enjoyment. Someone tootling about on a 250w e bike, doing most of the work, has zero impact on the trail and other people.

And if you could read properly you’ll note I do see riding as a sport (and, without wanting to Willy wave too much, have almost certainly worked a lot harder and been on the podium of more races than you). But most people don’t. It’s mostly a bit of fun, cocking about in the woods, exploring beautiful areas, seeing things you wouldn’t normally see, spending time with your friends and generally having a nice time. If you don’t see riding like that then you’re only cheating yourself.

Although part of me wishes I’d just written what hungrymonkey wrote 😉

The day it becomes competitive, is the day I turn the bike in to bean cans.

who the **** are you to determine who does and doesn’t ride on public trails on legal bicycles?

I know this might be hard for you to grasp, but I am speaking figuratively. I am trying to get across the fact that I think e-bikes are not good for the sport (and it is a sport) that I love. They make it easier in a way that is un-earned. Nobody has yet managed to come up with a solid defence of them, when being used by able-bodied riders – plenty of people pretending to be offended, nobody with any arguments worth a damn.

It’s not a f***ng sport!

A fully electric bike would have to have significantly more power than an e bike to work off road.

Clearly you are not very familiar with power outputs.
250W is getting very close to the peak power of a recreational rider, and certainly more than they can sustain for 60mins.

It’s not a f***ng sport!

The IOC disagree

And to quote wikipedia:
Mountain biking is the sport of riding bicycles off-road, often over rough terrain, using specially designed mountain bikes. Mountain bikes share similarities with other bikes, but incorporate features designed to enhance durability and performance in rough terrain.

They make it easier in a way that is un-earned

Why does it have to be earned?

Do you save your getting annoyed by an ebike rider overtaking you until after you’ve asked them if they’re able bodied or not?

Franz,

no-one is being offended, no-one is getting arguemntative, apart from you.

There doesn’t need to be an argument for why able bodied people use them, they just use them because they want to and they can.

Mountain biking being a sport… well that’s a whole other debate. Riding down the Ridgeway for a coffee, is that mountain biking ? It’s not a sport. My son is racing XC this weekend (He’s 8), however that IS a sport… because it’s a competition, it’s timed, you have winners…and others…

But Saturday we’ll go to Swinley for practice… .that’s not a sport… that’s a lad and his dad going out to enjoy the forest on bicycles.

And if you could read properly you’ll note I do see riding as a sport (and, without wanting to Willy wave too much, have almost certainly worked a lot harder and been on the podium of more races than you). But most people don’t. It’s mostly a bit of fun, cocking about in the woods, exploring beautiful areas, seeing things you wouldn’t normally see, spending time with your friends and generally having a nice time. If you don’t see riding like that then you’re only cheating yourself

You know literally nothing about me. Please don’t presume to tell me how much better you are than me.

Your second point is a good one. Maybe I am taking it all too seriously. But I still think that e-bikes are taking mountain biking in a worrying direction.

I am trying to get across the fact that I think e-bikes are not good for the sport (and it is a sport) that I love. They make it easier in a way that is un-earned. Nobody has yet managed to come up with a solid defence of them, when being used by able-bodied riders – plenty of people pretending to be offended, nobody with any arguments worth a damn.

I’ll answer this in a sec. but you don’t get my point – why the **** should you give two shits as to what someone chooses to ride on a legally accessible trail, on a bike that legally is allowed to be there. i don’t give two hoots about your ‘sport’ – i give two hoots about people enjoying what they do, without having hand wringers like yourselvef judging them because you don’t like it.

now…

They make it easier in a way that is un-earned.

big deal, why does that matter to you, unless you’ve such a chip on your shoulder about someone passing you somewhere?

Nobody has yet managed to come up with a solid defence of them, when being used by able-bodied riders

Here’s a pretty solid ‘defence’ (although i don’t know why they need ‘defending’) – it’s fun.

i ride bikes (many, many bikes, of varying types – road, cx, gravel, xc, trail, enduro, dh, ebikes), because it’s fun. i don’t really care what you think about what i ride that day. but if i pick an ebike up, i do so because it’s fun.

anyone who rides a mountain bike, who isn’t paid at the top level to do so, is doing it for fun. if they decide that an ebike is fun, and they enjoy it, why the **** shouldn’t they..?

you might have ‘ethical’ beliefs that they shouldn’t be ridden, but they’re perfectly legal, so it’s a pretty null and void argument in my opinion. when you’re **** off to some dirty grot in your bedroom, someone somewhere is probably judging you for watching it. but hey, it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, if it’s legal.

Without your palmares I can’t really judge, but I’m happy to make bets.

What I do know about you is that of all the lovely things that you could say about mountain biking you’ve decided to post your first thing outside the classifieds to rant about people enjoying themselves. You are taking it too seriously.

Hungry monkey – all your points are valid. I do get that they are fun. But so are normal bikes. And the only thing that makes e-bikes MORE fun than normal bikes is that they are drastically easier to ride, because they have motors.

Sport, leisure activity, a quiet bimble in the woods – whatever you want to call it, whatever your motivation is – if you are only getting back into bikes because an e-bike is X amount easier to ride because of the electrical engine, I just think that is a bit of a shame.

drastically easier to ride

So, clearly, you’ve not used one.

Hungry monkey – all your points are valid. I do get that they are fun. But so are normal bikes. And the only thing that makes e-bikes MORE fun than normal bikes is that they are drastically easier to ride, because they have motors.

now, i’ve never said they are ‘more’ fun – it’s a different fun. i’d say that approx 5% of my rides are on ebikes, they’re another bike in the mix.

if you are only getting back into bikes because an e-bike is X amount easier to ride because of the electrical engine, I just think that is a bit of a shame.

and what i’m saying is that someone’s choice to ride one is nothing to do with you. and if said person is getting back in to riding on an ebike, when they’d not get back in to it on a normal bike, i’d say that’s a GOOD thing. also, i’d say that your feelings towards them amount to more than ‘it being a shame’.

So, clearly, you’ve not used one.

I have, and yes it makes the puffing between trail heads, and the climbs less of a ball ache.. and tbh, i like a light feel.. the one i rode (a 6 grand haibike) felt too heavy handling wise compared to my bike.. not surprising when its (approx) 20kg vs the 10kg of my bike..

anyone who rides a mountain bike, who isn’t paid at the top level to do so, is doing it for fun. i

i’m not en e-biker.. but thats not true. fun yes , but fitness too.. and socialising.

the one “e-bike” guy i say hello to round here (and can jokingly heckle) says he misses being able to ride with people. i’ve been chatting with him when people are giving PROPER if looks could kill looks.

but he has his fun.. i’ve shown him to trails he doesnt know, but he’s had to leave me when theres a 30 min climb for me ahead that he can do in 10. he covers serious ground BUT there are people round here who cover that kind of ground (30+ miles) without assistance.

i respect that he’s having fun. but its NOT a solution if your goal is cycling fitness. as I said before, context and personal motivations are king.

keep up with your mates – fine.. but demoralising them or getting bored waiting for them? or them not wanting to ride with you because of that? buyer beware! expecing to switch back to a normal bike ever and realise you’ve cheated yourself by not using it AS WELL.

(e.g Denis99 sounds like he’s got it sorted – using it when he’s tired from the normal bike NOT as a crutch. as i’ve said before..)

btw the OP last replied 3 pages ago with…

I was just about to type that in, go out on my own until I’m back into it.
I do miss riding

So I guess he may have formed his own conclusion..

i’m not en e-biker.. but thats not true. fun yes , but fitness too.. and socialising.

If i wanted to train, i’d go out on a road bike – much more efficient for training. if i wanted to socialise, i’d go to the pub…

I’d say very few people choose to mountain bike, if they don’t enjoy it, and therefore the main reason they mtb (as opposed to, say, road ride and go to the pub) is because it’s fun.

someone’s choice to ride one is nothing to do with you. and if said person is getting back in to riding on an ebike, when they’d not get back in to it on a normal bike, i’d say that’s a GOOD thing. also, i’d say that your feelings towards them amount to more than ‘it being a shame’.

What it boils down to, for me, is whether e-bikes will become the norm out on the trails. If they keep getting exponentially as popular as they have in the last couple of years, they might end up doing that. And yes, that would be more than a shame.

What have I done 😐

As long as they don’t negatively impact you, and they’re 250W e-bikes, I really don’t see the big deal

The more people cycling the better

for me, is whether e-bikes will become the norm out on the trails. If they keep getting exponentially as popular as they have in the last couple of years, they might end up doing that. And yes, that would be more than a shame.

Just like fat bikes

Oh.

already seen more e-bikes than fat bikes and more regular use of e-bikes..

someone i know is going to for a ride tomorrow with 3 people on e-bikes, on his normal bike. he’s pretty fit, will be interesting to hear back next week.

If they keep getting exponentially as popular as they have in the last couple of years, they might end up doing that. And yes, that would be more than a shame.

why would that be a shame? it’s just people (legally) riding what is (legally) classed as a bike.

nobody’ll force you to do so, so there’s no issue, is there?

It is a non mtb and unscientific data point (probably unrelated to the current debate) but on my commute the e-bikers seem disproportionately represented by complete knobbers.

What see is riding characterised by close passing manoeuvres, aggressive barging in the ASB and swapping from filtering outside a line of traffic to inside without observation. Basically the behaviour matches the worst that is seen of motor traffic encroaching on cycling safety and a “you can’t touch me because I’m on a bike just like you” arrogance.

Maybe my attention is just drawn to the objectionable individuals and I have concluded that objectionable individuals are drawn to e-bikes. Derestriction? “none of your business, grandpa!”

My stereotypical derestricted e-bike commuter is wearing their normal business attire in the safe knowledge that they’re not going to sweat. They won’t be there on a rainy day as that would mean protecting yourself from road spray.

The final summing up is a narcissistic fair weather dilettante brandishing a corrosive self-entitlement. The concept of personal compromise has been rejected.

Now if I encounter an e-mountain bike exhibiting similar tendencies… Not saying. Just thinking out loud.

Euro – Member
How about the critical folk write a list of reasons why they ride a mountain bike? Then beside each reason put the negative affect using an ebike has.

I’m sure there is the odd nutjob who only cycle uphills purely for fitness. They ride alone too, so don’t miss the fun and banter of just being out with mates. They walk down hills and across flats as there’s no fitness benefit using gravity to aid them. They don’t mess about on jumps, berms and drops – working on their bike skills. No need for that crap as pure, undiluted, glorious fitness trumps all. They have no adventure in their lives and don’t just go for a gentle ride to explore the land and admire the wonderful scenery. What possible benefit could that softie crap have on them?

Seeing as no one else has bitten yet, I will…

Variously, I like
– Having a machine that requires no energy source but me, and the simplicity this brings.
– Being able to carry the bike when things get too steep (One of my bikes is already at the limit of what I’d do this with but it’s worth it down the other side).
– Getting some fresh air in the countryside.
– Blasting down the hills.
– Social stuff.
– Keeping fit and healthy.
– Occasional racing.
– Changing bits to get just the right build for the intended purpose.
– Optimising the bike for a particular purpose.

so yeah, if it comes to needing one, I’ll take an e bike (by then I probably won’t be riding down stuff that requires a push up), but for now I’ll stick with other bikes. It does mean for longer rides I have to make compromises between burliness and pedalability, but that’s fine, I like obsessing over these things. And I do think there’s a big difference between optimising a bike (whether through reduced weight, adding suspension, or optimising the aero) and adding power – the HPV records wouldn’t be so impressive if they were set with electric assistance, for example.

It is a non mtb and unscientific data point (probably unrelated to the current debate) but on my commute the e-bikers seem disproportionately represented by complete knobbers.

Quite the opposite for me. Especially the tit this morning with earphones in weaving around who couldnt hear me trying to get by on the cycle path.

oldtalent – Member
It is a non mtb and unscientific data point (probably unrelated to the current debate) but on my commute the e-bikers seem disproportionately represented by complete knobbers.
Quite the opposite for me. Especially the tit this morning with earphones in weaving around who couldnt hear me trying to get by on the cycle path.

Surely for any subgenres of 2 wheeled fun, the one to which the writer does not belong is the defacto set of nobbers?

ajantom – Member
But why? It’s a lot of money for something that you don’t need (obviously most of us don’t really need any of our bikes, but you know what I mean) Why the need for electric assist if you can ride a normal bike. Admit it, I bet you feel that you’re cheating just a little bit when you’re on it

Afew reasons, probably why more people are getting ebikes.
Firstly, I have a bit of pain and strength issues with my left thigh after riding around Afan. Ride from my house to the trails, usually 30 miles in total with about 3,000 ft of climbing.
the next day I wouldn’t be able to ride due to my lack of strength.
Being retired now, I can go for a ride on the ebike quite easily.

Secondly
My wife can ride the ebike and I can ride the normal bike, this way we can both get out and enjoy the ride together.

Thirdly.
Its nice to be able to go further and explore some off piste without having to slog up some of the steeper climbs.

Fourthly
I don’t feel like its cheating, but it does feel good to ride like i was some 40 years ago. Nice cadence uphill and the climbs become very different when you have a degree of speed, as opposed to my slogging away.

I’m struggling to see why people with E bikes are even bothering to reply to some of the stuff on here.
If you want to ride on that alone is good enough reason and it’s f all to do with anyone else.

Recently heard about a family of 3 in Swinley. Dad was overweight but struggling along on a good old fashioned manual bike

Mother, also overweight, was riding an electric bike.

Child under 12, massively overweight, riding an e-bike

Do other people find it staggering that a fat kid is given an electric bike to get fit/enjoy the countryside??

Well this thread is Giving me de ja vu
So many opinions from people that have not had a go on an e bike but have decided they hate them

The same as around 6 years ago, when I was one of the first people
To post threads about fat bikes. People who hadn’t seen one, hadn’t ridden one had already made
Their (narrow) minds up. Now many of you have one, have ridden one and have had fun on one

And Although some e bike owners have only that bike
All this crap about not having earnt it! I work so in earn and by whatever bike I want to ride

So although I’ve got a caad fat1, stooge, pugsley, spot ralleye, now I’ve also got an E
Bike I’m not a mtber any more ?!?

Bloody good article this – add a little balance to the discussion

Over a Beer: Why Ebikes Are the Spawn of Satan (mostly)

Really ? Just read it. The guy has no problems with e bikes as long as you are
Commuting on them! But doesn’t like them off road. What a prick !

So what about when I commute 15 miles through the woods to work Does that make me the spawn of the devil or not. I’m so confused !

boltonjon, you’ve proclaimed numerous times on front page articles about e bikes that you are going to leave this site because it shows too much support for e bikes. Is it not time you took your ill informed opinions elsewhere?

I see no overweight kids on bikes round here. I’d rather see them on an e-bike, at least starting to get fit, than doing no exercise at all.

Ultimately ebikes are selfish, So long as I have my fun who cares about the environmental impact of my bloated contraption and its batteries, right?

Whatever spin you want to put on it, an ebike has a larger environmental footprint than a conventional bike…from the manufacture and disposal of the batteries to trail damage.

Of course they are fun, but legal and moral are two different things.

Fwiw,…I was at Drumlanrig castle today riding and popped in for a chat with Rik, and he doesn’t want bloated ebikes anywhere near the natural trails there.

Of course they are fun

The only part of your post that wasn’t utter horse shit.

Is it not time you took your ill informed opinions elsewhere?

Fully informed pal and completely entitled to my opinion, as are you – half the fun of this forum

An extract from one of today’s articles “dodgy Chinese ePeds that threatened to eat Interbike 2016 whole”

Maybe even STW staff are getting a little worried about the whole e-bike craze…

Dumbbot

You mean the environmentally friendly internal combustion engines that roll up at all the trail centres across the UK with mountain bikes in tow……

Not more trail damage than an normal bike, in fact some of the fastest riders uphill are probably causing more erosion.

Who is Rik? Is he some sort of police God who will dictate who rides where and when?

It’s just riding a bike and having some fun, perhaps we need to have some form of ration on an individual’s fun these days.