b a c o n: a bike for riding in mountains then? What a novel idea! 
Looks spot on for somewhere like Aston.
Bike Forum
Downhill bikes. Tell me about them...
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Posted 10 months ago #
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I've just got back from my alps trip and am now thinking about swapping my Turner RFX for a slacker angled frame too. I'd like the frame to be a bit smaller and slacker. Travel wise 160/180mm. I'm having doubts though as I'm worried I'll just be stuck with a bike I won't ride. Suggestions on frames would be very much appreciated.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Ahem, I've just decided to sell my Lapierre Froggy as it happens Andy.
It has a smallish frame and 180mm travel front and rear...
Drop me an email if it may be of interest - otherwise I'm sorry for the spam!
Posted 10 months ago # -
Otherwise an Alpine or the new Patriot?
*awakes flaming*
Posted 10 months ago # -
Sorry you're just not right there. Be more specific...if we're talking about DH bikes then we're talking about downhill trails. I'm thinking Fort William, Glencoe, Dunkeld, Nant G, Llangollen, even tracks the likes of Alwinton and parts of Innerliethen...
i'm not talking about dh bikes vs play bikes. I'm talking about dh bikes vs 'mini dh bikes' - which to my mind have the same angles, give or take, but 7-8" rear travel instead of ~10. The alps and Canada have far more repetetive braking bumps, some of which get pretty big, and I find they're generally 'faster' (ie average speed over the course) compared to the UK coursed. I find a big travel bike helps, whereas the UK tracks I've never found 7" of travel wanting
Posted 10 months ago # -
i'm not talking about dh bikes vs play bikes. I'm talking about dh bikes vs 'mini dh bikes' - which to my mind have the same angles, give or take, but 7-8" rear travel instead of ~10
Most DH bikes have settled around the 8" mark though, bar the odd exceptions?
I struggle to see the point of a Mini DH/Freeride bike, when a decent 160mm bike will do it just as well, weigh a shed load less, and you can ride it on anything that doesn't just point downwards.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Most DH bikes have settled around the 8" mark though, bar the odd exceptions?
I struggle to see the point of a Mini DH/Freeride bike, when a decent 160mm bike will do it just as well, weigh a shed load less, and you can ride it on anything that doesn't just point downwards.
well a lot of the manufacturers who offer a mini dh bike (at around 8" travel, like orange, santa cruz, intense) also offer a full dh race bike with 10" travel. They normally have similar angles, but are a bit smaller and cheaper than the big models.
I do see an advantage of the bikes existing. A driver 8 for example rides very differently do a bullet, despite only having 1.1" difference in travel. The bullet would ride along/up hill better, but the driver would kick its arse down a slope
Posted 10 months ago # -
Wasn't the driver a bit of a flop? Never actualy seen one outside the LBS window display and the Dirt review reckoned their V10 with a stiffer spring made a better 8" bike.
The latest buzz-word seems to be super-enduro bikes, so whereas a 150mm bike is now 'enduro', you now need a 170mm bike for the Mega!
Posted 10 months ago # -
I'm talking about dh bikes vs 'mini dh bikes' - which to my mind have the same angles, give or take
False. Angles are not the same they are different! Please tell me of a mini-dh bike with the same angles as a current DH bike**
but 7-8" rear travel instead of ~10
False again. 8" is the teritory of DH bikes, full stop. Again, which mini-DH bikes have 8" travel?**
well a lot of the manufacturers who offer a mini dh bike (at around 8" travel, like orange, santa cruz, intense) also offer a full dh race bike with 10" travel. They normally have similar angles, but are a bit smaller and cheaper than the big models.
Ehh? I'm totally lost now, i think you're getting mixed up. Again await to be educated as to which mini-DH bikes are being offered by SC, Intense or Orange with 8inches of travel??
And 10" is really only the preserve of SC (V10) and Intense(M6/M9) on the VPP platform and even these also now come adjustable down to 8".**caveat that Transition now offer a proper mini-DH bike in the TR250, an awesome frame that might actually offer all the things you are talking about (blend of travel, angles and geometry) in a 'non-Dh specific' package. But this is a recent addition to the frame market and the only real contender for this that I can think of - so is currently the exception to the rule.
Posted 10 months ago # -
to me mini DH bikes should have less than 6" travel (way less if I'm honest)but should retain DH geometry and strength so I happen to have a 4.5" travel mini DH bike with a 65deg HA and 12.6" BB and an 8" DH bike with a 64.5deg HA and 13.6 BB height.
False. Angles are not the same they are different! Please tell me of a mini-dh bike with the same angles as a current DH bike**
I only know of one current strong, short travel frame that will work out to similar geometry to mine with a 5" fork.. and guess what? it's just the current incarnation of what I have. it's a shame no one seems to understand why short travel bikes like these can ride so well.The way I ride I'd actually prefer to have a 7" fork and shorter shock on my proper DH bike giving around 7.25" travel, a slightly slacker H/A and lower BB but haven't seen a suitable shorter shock and no one makes a decent 7" dual crown fork but even with 7" F&R it wouldn't be a mini DH bike.
Posted 10 months ago # -
GW - I totally agree with you. My next bike is liklely to be something along these lines if i can justify the indulgence on top of my TR450 and Enduro. Point is though, there are few offerings out there which fit this bill and as you say it is likely the perfect bike to achieve all of this this would be something around 5" and with burly tubing and a slack HA / low BB from the factory - but increased with an aftermarket mod such as a shortened shock / offset bushings / offset cups (or a comonation of these). The mini-DH bikes people have alluded to on this thread are in most cases actually FR bikes (7") or possibly even heavy trail/enduro bikes.
Posted 10 months ago # -
LOL @ 'mini downhill bikes'
Oh what crap the marketing departments spew out these days!
What happens when a bike was regarded as a 'long travel downhill bike', yet compared to modern bikes, only has 150mm of travel, classing it as a 'mini downhill bike' ?
Posted 10 months ago # -
I only know of one current strong, short travel frame that will work out to similar geometry to mine with a 5" fork.. and guess what? it's just the current incarnation of what I have. it's a shame no one seems to understand why short travel bikes like these can ride so well.
Blood?
Slack head angle, 5" at the back but capable of taking a 160mm fork nae bother...
Posted 10 months ago # -
Xiphon - if you are taking about back when 150mm rear travel was the norm for a DH raced bike, most of those frames would be no use as a mini-DH bike as the frames were heavier than an 8" frame is now, the suspension quality was often poor and the geometry was often not great. (think higher BBs and steeper HAs)
PJ - No not a Blood, a Blood's HA would be about 67deg with a 5" fork.. (I wouldn't really want a 160mm single crown when I'd be happy with 170mm on my "proper" DH bike)
Posted 10 months ago # -
My Patriot LT rides quite nicely with 150mm 36s up front... suspension is simple but effective..... geo is pretty dialled too..... and it's quite light.
Anywhere I ride on the 222, I will also ride on the Patriot...nearly as quick... so yes, I'd class it as a 'mini downhill bike' by that standard... just have to take a slightly different line choice sometimes...
Perhaps Orange were way ahead of their time?
Posted 10 months ago # -
no one makes a decent 7" dual crown fork
I've got a mint ~7" 2003 Boxxer World Cup I will probably be selling in a few months time if you're interested
Posted 10 months ago # -
2004 Boxxer Teams over here - 7" of buttery smooth lovelyness.
Posted 10 months ago # -
uk trails are generally smoother (fort bill maybe excepted) and less vicious on a bike than stuff in the alps\canada though.
Not really, bikes tend to get hammered more in the Alps etc because you are generally on a holiday, cramming several weeks riding back home into a few days.
Posted 10 months ago # -
Currently in a very wet morzine, on my mark 1 nomad and can,t say it holds me back on any trail. I,m no superstar rider but can keep up with most full on dhillers on pleney and the like. I think the differences is I can only do about 4 runs before I,m shaken to bits and have to have a rest whereas I bet they can keep going. Only a few sections have I really wished for a bigger fork and slacker angles. That said if I had the money and space I would buy an old dh frame and swap the parts over once a year
Posted 10 months ago # -
I've already got a couple of older sets of 7" DC DH forks lying doing nothing. WTFs your point?
Xiphon - Does your LTs Geometry look as sorted as this one's?
Perhaps Orange were way ahead of their time?
Seems we still haven't reached the time "they" were thinking of
Posted 10 months ago # -
I think Orange design bikes for the 'fun' side of riding.
I know Steve Wade rides most days in Switzerland over the summer and in Spain during the winter, in places where there is no uplift. That's why bikes like the Patriot exist and why the 224 will actually climb (albeit slowly) if you whack a long post in it.
Posted 10 months ago # -
the bb height on that LT looks impressive - no pedal strikes there!. like my old patriot. proper fun bike.
Posted 10 months ago # -
I've already got a couple of older sets of 7" DC DH forks lying doing nothing. WTFs your point?
Dunno, sort of sounded like you were after a set of 7" DC forks and complaining none were available so I offered a solution.
Posted 10 months ago #
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