Hob Nob - [b][u]it's not about how much time you spend on the bike, it's how you enjoy the time on the bike.[/u][/b]
A 4 minute run down a DH track is more fun than 30mins uphill on a road bike.... to me anyway.
So I don't mind sitting in an uplift vehicle for 30mins to get to the top of the hill - I accept that's part of the sport I love.
My 222 probably gets used only 1/8th of the time - the remaining 7/8th is on my Patriot. Still, through it's infrequent use, it will last for years to come.
A cheap proper DH bike is a joyous thing to own, was riding mine (an aged Patriot 7+ with Boxxers) this weekend and had forgotten just how brilliant it is. Was riding the same trails a couple of weeks ago on my Heckler with 140mm forks and it is a _whole_ different world. Your riding skills and confidence will grow on the new bike and will make you faster on the 5.
Get an old bike that hasn't been too thrashed, use it a few times a year and love every second. If you don't race it'll last forever with a bit of occasional maintenance, if it's not for you sell it at no loss.
Easy decision.
Incidentally - I Know I shouldnt - but my Foes RS7 is prob going to be up for sale this week as Im off to Oz, Perfect UK DH bike without being a 10" monster.
Your riding skills and confidence will grow on the new bike and will make you faster on the 5.
Looking into basically what I'm hoping to achieve by getting a bigger bike, that's essentially it. I was quite properly worried on the Five for the first time in ages in Morzine (even after riding it in Spain, Italian Alps, Austrian Alps and on shorter DH trails in the UK) but I was also enjoying the riding and want to be better at it, which can only benefit my regular riding.
Sounds like it might be time to peruse ebay...
I spent loads on my tr450. I'll ride it at triscombe, cwmdown, fod, gawton, spain, alps and anywhere else. As others said my other bikes will get used more, but who cares. I've said repeatedly that justifying mtb is pointless, its for fun. If you want a dh bike, buy one.
dammit,
you're getting to me. might have to look into it...
Incidentally - I Know I shouldnt - but my Foes RS7 is prob going to be up for sale this week as Im off to Oz, Perfect UK DH bike without being a 10" monster.
Do go on. 🙂
New Patriot is perfect.
Your riding skills and confidence will grow on the new bike and will make you faster on the 5.
They won't. Most people who ride/race DH will tell you the opposite actually.
Ride the little bike, get quick, get to the limits (and beyond) far more easily, jump on the DH bike, realise riding at the same pace is nowhere near the limit on the bigger bike, go even faster.
If I want to improve on the little bike, I take that out & ride DH on it for the day. Sadly, once you realise what you can actually do & what they can put up with, you do start to question the need for a full on DH bike.
Or maybe i'm just getting old.
They won't. Most people who ride/race DH will tell you the opposite actually.
Hmm.
I know when I moved from a HT to a susser (and similarly from a XC susser to a Patriot when working in the Alps in 2003) it increased my confidence massively, and consequently my riding.
Not using it everyday I'd expect (hope?) to have a similar process again.
I suppose the next step after that will be an MX bike... 😕
pick up a good second hand bike on ebay...
id sell my commy supreme for the right price.
1.5 years old just had a major service
Was the Alpine that much better on the open stuff?
Than the 'Ginsters' (the intense-branded genesis proto, you know Andy and his labels..), yes - not a 5. Loulou left the 5 behind and ab/used orange's test bike. But I'd expect the Alpine was also a fair bit better than a 5. Anyway.. look fwd to seeing the pimp-beater..
I was thinking much the same, decided not to get one (so far) for a few reasons.
1) If I don't use a bike often, I don't get used to how it handles, so the first bit of every ride gets wasted on refamiliarising. If you've got 8 goes on an uplift wagon or 4 goes pushing to the top of a hill it's a shame to waste any of them getting used to the bike
2) Similiarly it always takes me a few rides to get a bike set up how I like, fiddling with parts and spring rates and sometimes geometry and such.
3) I have a really, really good 6 inch trail bike. I can't afford a really, really good DH bike. And the compromise of parts and condition of going out and buying a smashed up old 222 or Bighit would be a shame.
So, I just use my normal bike. I'd sooner be at the top of the hill on a first class bike I know and trust and which I have working exactly how I want, rather than firing off down challenging trails on a bike I've not ridden since last year. But YMMV. Modern big trail bikes are stupidly good.
NW - I've got 8 bikes (road/race BMX/DJ BMX/rigid/XC HT/DJ HT/DH/mini DH) and the second I get on each I'm used to them but I do switch bike fairly often (I'll often ride 3 bikes in the one day) I can also set-up a bike to almost exactly how I want it very quickly without even riding it. sometimes I don't ride my race DH bike for 6 months (I've ridden it 3 times this year)
you've overthinked your decision
To be fair, I am somewhat interested in a DH bike just out of curiosity. Would love to know what it's like to be fully suited up with a full on bike 🙂
If I had the money I would buy one of these
http://www.last-bikes.com/products/complete-bikes/herb-am.html
To be fair, I am somewhat interested in a DH bike just out of curiosity. Would love to know what it's like to be fully suited up with a full on bike
Put simply, it's [b]brilliant[/b] fun. Obviously you can ride a DH course on anything (29" fixed/rigid/with a basket(, should you wish, but the proper tool of choice is a DH bike.
For anyone who thinks that getting a secondhand bike means getting something trashed, just think how many 223s and 224s have been bought by people who found out they really didn't have the time to ride them, and who've consequently done the square root of no miles on them. Such bikes cost almost exactly the same as a trashed bike, i.e. almost nothing. Certainly £1k will get you an absolutely excellent condition DH bike, that's totally usable. Maybe it's not cutting edge, maybe it's not as light as you'd want, but for amateur use, it'll be exactly what you need. And it's really, really hard to damage these; the most I've done in 2 weeks of hammering trails in the Alps is a re-tension of the rear wheel and a fork service.
GW - Memberyou've overthinked your decision
Maybe you're right there... but some people can jump from bike to bike better than others. I can switch easily between bikes I know well but it takes me time to gel with anything different.
Big element of skill/confidence in this too I think, at my level I can do without any niggling issues on difficult trails. But I've tried swapping around like you say and it doesn't work well for me, I'm still slower and less controlled at the end of an uplift day than I would have been on my own bike.
Talking of switching bikes - ride a road bike for 6 months like me then jump on a Patriot. It feels bloody weird. Like hugging a spacehopper.
how far round the world did you make it in those 6 months? and good for you posting so frequently from your bike and managing not to willy wave about it 😉
I didn't go anywhere, I spent 6 months on a turbo trainer.
All I can say is "do it"
Put simply, it's brilliant fun. Obviously you can ride a DH course on anything (29" fixed/rigid/with a basket(, should you wish, but the proper tool of choice is a DH bike.
Riding a DH couse severeley underbiked will do you, the trail and the bike no favours and the trail fairies will be angered. (Unless you have some very special skills)
I have 3 case studies of Downhill bike ownership.
1.) Bought a DHI cheap in May 2006, ran it specifically to train for and use on my first trip to the Alps. Excellent bike, let down only by my limited (at the time) mechanical understanding. Certainlly learned more about going fast than I would have had I taken my coiler. Sold the bike for a profit in August on my return
2.) Bought a well specced Big Hit with 888'sin Winter 2007, Ran it until spring this year. Simple bike easy to ride, taught me some lessons in bike setup and maintenance (changed all of the bearings etc. at home) did 3 alps trips and about 10 days at the DH track on it, didn't really improve my riding, but it was very reliable and pretty much bombproof.
3)Swapped the majority of the component's from the Big Hit to and SX trail with 55's. Even more fun to ride in the alps, think it'll be great on the local DH track too, can see me doing much"trail riding on it though. Ghetto fabulous low, slack and stable UK DH bike. Glad I had the big bikes first though.
Some points.
If in doubt go for the bigger travel bike.
DH bikes can go pretty much anywhere in the Portes Du Soliel, if you add a bit of propedal, tyre pressure and MTFU.
Make sure your downhill bike is robust, has good brakes, the size and shock spring are correct, the suspension has been dialled in and the brake levers and bars are very in the perfect position for your hands, everything else after that is jewlery.
Buying a downhill bike needn't cost you very much if you buy smart and don't go crazy tarting it up, used bikes don't devalue very much over a year or so, certainlly not as much as the cost of hiring some unknown, missprung shed of a bike on horrid tyres for a week...
oliverd1981 - MemberRiding a DH couse severeley underbiked will do you, the trail and the bike no favours and the trail fairies will be angered. (Unless you have some very special skills)
Don't agree with any of these. It can be great fun, it won't hurt the bike unless you really overdo it or are clumsy (I dinged up one of the wheels in my Soul at Fort William fairly badly frinstance, but that was clumsiness), it doesn't hurt the trail at all, and the trail fairies don't seem at all interested either way. Oh and clearly since I can do it, you don't need special skills.
ghetto dh bikes 😉
Oh. I said "it doesn't hurt the trail at all," should have said "doesn't hurt the trail more than usual". Too late for an edit
sspesh sx? commencal mini dh? Would maybe be awesome for uk dh fr stuff and good for bigger stuff abroad. Only a thought tho
A proper dh race bike is a wonderful thing and there are plenty bargains out there. I have an SX trail and a Glory dh, the SX never gets ridden. The dh bike gets used maybe 20 times a year and it is always a hoot. In theory the SX can be ridden up hill but it is so heavy i just push it.
Haven't fallen in love much with my SX either, seems to be neither one thing nor t'other.
oliverd1981 - MemberRiding a DH couse severeley underbiked will do you, the trail and the bike no favours and the trail fairies will be angered. (Unless you have some very special skills)
Don't agree with any of these.
I would say that your DH tracks are too easy, but then you mentioned the Fort... I'm not saying you can't do DH on a hardtail, but it is fairlly brutal and the extra braking will cut up the track more. It's not an approach that should be encouraged to the majority.
DH bikes are a great blast, and although you *can* ride DH trails on pretty much anything, to get the most out of them a proper DH bike is worth it. Saying that, I recently ditched my 224 (and my XC bike), bought a 5. With a decent shock and forks and proper wheels it's great for DH and I'm taking it to the alps - and it is also ok for mincing around the woods and trail centres. Not a great climber but that's the fault of the engine, not the bike.
Not as good as a proper DH bike in the big stuff but then I'm not as young as I used to be; as much as I like to think I'll be nailing the chatel gap and setting records on les crozets, I'm old and fat and have lost my balls and it hurts when I fall off, so a DH bike is wasted on me 🙂
It's not just the head angle of proper dh bikes that makes the difference, wheel base is important too, the travel etc all play a part. I use mine a lot all year round, racing, riding and just playing around and love every second of it. By the right bike for 1000-1500 quid if you can afford troo, it won't cost you that much and even with minimal use the benefits when you are riding it will more than make it worth it.
They won't. Most people who ride/race DH will tell you the opposite actually.
All the folks I know who ride/race dh a lot will tell you that time on the dh bike is critical to performance on it and that it does filter back to other types of riding too. Just practicsing on the xc/am bike isn't quick enough to make you really fast on a big bike.
All the folks I know who ride/race dh a lot will tell you that time on the dh bike is critical to performance on it and that it does filter back to other types of riding too. Just practicsing on the xc/am bike isn't quick enough to make you really fast on a big bike.
A friend of mine only rode his DH at national races and did the rest of his training on the road / XC / gym. Saying that, he was a fit as a fit fiddle and I guess if you're racing nationals the incentive to improve quickly is there in spades...
I should also add that he's Welsh, so blessed at birth with godly riding skills. 😉
Last time I went I was on a 2004 Heckler and this time I've been told to take something with more travel. It goes against all that I like on a bike but then my mincing a 7inch travel bike along singletrack here really does feel stupid/dull.
So I'm taking a 7inch travel Specialized SX (a good compromise I think rather than a full DH bike for someone like my riding ability). A sort of 'UK DH' frame and I'm looking for 170 or 180 (max) single crown forks to go on. I couldn't do Boxxers etc as I'd just feel like a fake 😆
I'm standing by the fact that riding a big bike has improved my small bike riding, I'm not entirely sure why but I ride better lines, keep off the brakes more and have learnt to trust the front end more.
May be due to the way I ride the big bike, titting about more as I'm generally less worried about crashing when padded up and only five minutes from the car. Not that I'm a crasher. Certainly wouldn't push the bike as hard/take the same risks when out in a Welsh Valley miles from anywhere. You could do this on a smaller bike, but I don't.
Switching between bikes feels odd for a few minutes, but it's easy.
I won't tempt you further up the tree, but an enduro (motorised) bike does the same but more so!
I'm standing by the fact that riding a big bike has improved my small bike riding
Same here.
It allowed me to explore terrain that I was too scared to try before. Now I know the terrain, I can do it on small bikes.
I'd be tempted to just hire a bike bike out there. In Les Arcs there were loads of big travel coil sprung monsters for around €70 per day. I think a day or two on one of those and the rest on your five would be a good compromise. I wished for a little more travel up front on my Heckler but truth be told the bike was not the limiting factor.
I'd be tempted to just hire a bike bike out there. In Les Arcs there were loads of big travel coil sprung monsters for around €70 per day.
With a season of abuse.
I'm an ex-mechanic and confessed bike snob - I'd spend half the day fettling and the other half moaning. 😉
Lots of different opinions here, as forcefully expressed as you'd expect on STW.
But I think if you've got an itch for a DH bike and you can afford to scratch it then why not?
I've got a 180mm freeride bike that I was struggling to click with until I had a three-week holiday with it in the Alps just now.
Happily I've now found the trails that it suits perfectly - but unfortunately there's not a great deal of lift-accessed switchbacky, technical singletrack or 30 minute "freeride" runs with 1000m+ vertical drop in the UK.
So I'm building up a proper DH bike (with an eye on the resale value) to scratch the itch that I still seem to have anyway.
🙂
Looking on the classifieds now. Love the idea of an old Patriot (the '08 is a gorgeous looking bike), but figure realistically that already owning a Five, I may as well take the plunge good and proper and go for a full rig.
Are you going for a 224 then?
I know of a 15" frame for sale, drop me an email if interested.
do not think of the time riding. think of the extra stength and fitness gained from the push up and the extra grins during and after. 🙂
Really wish folks would stop using the term ''UK downhill bike'' :evil:. As if downhills here in the UK were some pale and unworthy poor relation of the 'proper' gnarr outside of the UK.
We have steep, we have roots and ruts, we have rocks, we have braking bumps, we have high speed flat-out. We just don't have comparable length of run. But length of run doesn't come into the arguement. 2-3 minutes is more than enough to start feeling the effects of a decent DH run if you're trying hard enough.
And for those who believe that somewhere in the 5-7" travel range somehow constitutes this mythical 'ideal UK DH bike', a DH bike is about more than travel, whether it's 6, 7, 8 or even 10 inches. It's about ultimate stability and ultimate geometry and feeling like you have a piece of equipment singularly designed for the task in hand with no compromises. A feeling you can achieve easily on local UK DH trails as well as the national level tracks.
Are you going for a 224 then?I know of a 15" frame for sale, drop me an email if interested.
I'd realistically look a little larger as I'm 6ft.
I appear to be buying a ti hardtail frame as well... 😯
The DH will have to wait for the new year. 🙁
pmj in les arcs the hire bikes were in good nick bar the bent seat
brakes and gears were all sweet - they were commencals supreme 8s ...
Certainly didnt get the seal of approval from the hirer though as his bike frame snapped while climbing he had to hire and the downhill bike did not make the downhills any better than on his five-esque bike.
if you havnt had a dh bike before dont be under the illusion youll ride it anywhere .... they are a complete PIG to go anywhere other than down ...
if you havnt had a dh bike before dont be under the illusion youll ride it anywhere .... they are a complete PIG to go anywhere other than down ...
I know. First time I rode one I thought it had a flat tyre as I scooted along to the top of the run - turns out it was just 3" of sag and a super-tacky tyre. 😉
