I poked my nose into Tisos this morning to have a look at down jackets. The helpful salesman showed me a couple.

A Mountain Equipment Lightline and a Rab Summit, they didn’t have a Rab Neutrino in stock. I’m after something warm, durable and compact for four season bikepacking here and in the US.

The ME jacket felt good and packed smaller but wouldn’t be as warm as the Rab summit. The ME was £180 but had a special offer duffle bag thrown in. The Rab was £200.

Does anyone have any experiences with either of the above or the Neutrino. Owt else I should consider?

Down is fine as long as you can keep it dry. I’ve pretty much moved over to synthetic stuff for everything except trips where it’s sub zero all the time and hence don’t need to worry about rain / damp.

Love my Rab summit but can’t think of a down jacket that would tick all your boxes.

Does it need to be down? Have you considered synthetic? Montane Flux?

As above. Down is great for dry cold conditions. Less so in the UK.

Rab Infinity?

I have a Patagonia Primaloft smock jacket, I can’t remember the model just now. It’s been good over here. I had a couple of freezing nights in Oregon and Washington last year, sub -10c that I suffered in. So something for those rare extremes is what I keen to find. Budget? No more than £200

Ive got one of these, great it is.

http://www.klattermusen.se/produktsida.php?lang=en&ID=1015&sex=2&curr=EUR

I always have a down jacket in my pack in spring/autumn/winter.

If you get a reasonably lightweight one, they pack down well and don’t weigh much.

Works well as something to throw over your sleeping bag if it gets nippy – I used my super light weight summer bag on mountains into autumn by doing this.

If you’re moving around then you wouldn’t be wearing a down jacket anyway, so it’s generally on when you’re sat still for long periods (i.e. when you’ve set up camp). If you plan on sitting around in the rain then yes, synthetic is better, but once i’ve made camp I’m rarely sat in the rain. I’ve yet to get my down jacket wet enough for it to lose heat retaining capability (like my sleeping bag, yes it could get wet, but it probably won’t).

I rarely wear a thick insulated layer when i’m active though, so it only comes out once i’m sat still. If you need a heavy insulated layer when you’re active, and it’s wet, then down probably isn’t the best choice.

Webtogs have the Neutrino for £150 and the Vega for £150

The new Rab jackets have down which has been treated to be hydrophopic, so should handle the wet a bit better.

I found the ME jacketss to be very roomy around the waist, bend over and loads of warm air shoots out round your neck.

Nearly bought a Norrona Lyngen Down jacket on sale last year. they’re quite nice.

Or snythetic might be a better bet, depending.

Stoner: Ive got one of these, great it is.

http://www.klattermusen.se/produktsida.php?lang=en&ID=1015&sex=2&curr=EUR

That means the climbing mouse in Swedish. Didn’t know of this brand actually.

Brother in law has a PHD designs jacket that packs down V small.

Too late to edit post above but: “quite nice” = norrona have a slimmer fit, better for me than Mountain Equipment.

and hydrophobic with a “b”.

McM – you didn’t say what its intended use is
For sitting around a camp or popping down to the shops they’re great but some people sleep wearing them which is not such a great idea as you are compressing the down when you sleep on it, so not as warm as you’d expect. As Peterfile says throwing them over your sleeping bag to provide extra heat is a good trick if it’s cold but its not a long term solution: a 1000g bag + 600g coat is not as warm as the same quality 1300g bag.

Don’t believe the crap that moisture will kill them. Most have a treated pertex style outer fabric so can resist light showers or temporary drizzle and or snow. They don’t fare well when it’s proper rain though.

I guess the best thing is work out your requirements then take it from there. If it’s just to boost your sleeping bag then you might be better off with a new sleeping bag or maybe some primaloft trousers and vest to boost your core temp.
check out this guys blog for lots of cold weather camp gear testing

By the way, both the items you mentioned are available online a lot cheaper than that.

What I’m after is a packable warm jacket for four season bike packing. I intend to use a tent and I’m not really one for sitting out in the rain when I can be undercover so waterproofness isn’t or shouldn’t be an issue. I think at this time of year in Scotland I would route trips to a bothy rather than camp out.

I have a Patagonia primaloft Nano Puff jacket which is great but when the temperatures are a good bit below zero I start to feel the cold. Once my core temperature drops I struggle to get it back. I had a bad experience where I got so cold I fainted once my hands froze while trying stuff my sleeping bag into it’s stuff sack after wrapping up a frozen flysheet. That may have been caused by a post viral weakness but it scared me. I like the possibility of layering a jacket on top of a sleeping bag.

On my forthcoming US trip I hope to do some hiking on Mt St Helens. We might get the chance to try Mt Rainier too, so a really warm jacket would be essential.

So, in summary, versatility is at the core of my needs.

I use a rab generator pullover. plenty packable and plenty warm, but I run hot.

I suppose what you’re after is what everyone wants then, max heat, min pack size, low price. So it has to be down for the warmth/weight ratio. I also reckon a hood is essential too for extra versatility.
I suppose your choice is a big jacket for those very cold occasions or a clever way of layering over your existing bike-packing clothing.
This could layer over your nano puff.
There are lots of big warm down coats on the market but in spring you’ll get a much better deal.

It might be worth waiting for the PHD February sale to see if they have any bargains
Another option is to buy in the US whilst out there cos the prices are lower e.g. a £200 coat could be $200 there so a lot cheaper.

FWIW: I have an ME lightline, Patagonia Down Sweater and a PHD Minimus vest. The Lightline is simply too hot to anything active in down to say -10. It’s a heavy lump to carry all day up a Munro “just in case”. The down sweater is more versatile as it can be a coat, or be a mid-layer. The vest is the most used as I just don’t get that cold unless wild-camping in January on a hill.

If you end up buying in the States, check out Western Mountaineering – really excellent down kit. I’ve tried a couple of their sleeping bags and they really know what they’re doing.

Over here, the Rab Infinity is a good balance of lightness and warmth. Or the Berghaus Ilam with hydrophobic down also. Or for a lighter but surprisingly warm jacket, the Arc’teryx Cerium LT or the Thorium, though I’ve not used the latter.

Top advice ElShalimo, That’s a storming deal on the Rab Infinity. It wins my vote so far.

In Britain PHD are the best down clothing manufacturers IMO . I’ve got a PHD down vest which is perfect for bike packing. It only weighs 150gm and is warm enough for the camp site or bag boosting and is rated to -5c. Mark Beaumont took one on his round the world jaunt. I’ve got a Rab , berghaus and montane down and primaloft jackets . I find the I take a berghaus primaloft jacket and my PHD vest with me on most trips. The primaloft packs to the size of a large grape fruit and the vest to a tennis ball. The whole thing weighs about 550 gms and is 4 season warm if need be. I’ve never been cold with this setup even down to about -10 c .

Check out the half price Haglof’s down jackets at Squarewheels. You can view them on their Ebay site. There’s a few heavily filled down jackets still for sale that might just do the trick. I thought primaloft would be the way to go for you but if you are happy with down, worth a peek.

I should add that I’m talking about sitting about inactive at these temps. It would be far too hot to be physically active wearing both jackets.

+1 for the rab infinty.. ive got the endurance one with the hydrophobic coating. its seen a fair bit of rain and the down hasn’t suffered.. 😀

Christ, that is a good price on the infinity. Paid £150 for mine and thought that was good.

FWIW, my PHD vest is easily the best down item I own. Lofts like ****.

Be careful if buying in the states. They use a different scale for the quality of down used.

I have a North Face Super Diez summit series jacket. Packs away small in its own pocket, 900 fill European quality Goose down and pertex outer so the odd shower wont hurt. Weighs about 14oz. Might be worth a look.

Re different fill power ratings. There is no universal test for this but a general rule of thumb is that the US rating is 100 higher than EU rating. So 900US = 800EU in many cases for the same item. (just think of the Spinal Tap amp)
The higher the rating the better but keep an eye on the down/feather ratio
80/20 means 80% down with the rest feathers. The higher the down proportion the better

There is loads of info and geeky comparisons on the web. PHD have an interesting technical briefings section on their website that discusses this at length

One of the new NorthFace thermoball jackets would be a good option.
They are very thin and light with an equivalent fill to a 600 fill down jacket and rated down to -10C.

They have a windproof outer and are as warm wet as they are cold.
Pack down to be very small and I’ve been wearing mine all winter with a T-shirt and occasional thin fleece and been as warm as I need to be.
They look like they shouldn’t be that warm but are remarkable.

I wouldn’t use a down one for bikepacking as they are hard to look after and not good when wet.

DaveRambo – this is part of the ratings confusion I mentioned above. It’ll be 600fp US and warm to -10C is very subjective.. it probably is if you’re a hot person and running but stand still for 1hr and it will be very different.

Just a heads up if anyone is interested. I’ll have a Mountain Equipment Lightline down jacket for sale in classifieds this evening. It’s about 7 years old, but still in excellent condition (for obvious reasons they don’t get worn very often), only used for going to the pub and work, maybe a camping weekend or two. Recently washed properly in the bath with nikwax down wash and tumble dried on low heat, not worn since washing. Medium size, with hood, orange and black. Current Lightline is £180rrp, as little as £150 if you’re not choosy on colour and/or your size is available. Mine will be £80 posted.

ElShalimo – point taken about the ratings it being subjective.

I spend a lot of Sunday afternoons stood on a cold, windy field watching my daughter play rugby and it’s fine for that.

I guess my main points were
– it’s a lot warmer than it looks.
– it packs up small
– it’s easy to look after as it’s not down

For me all positives for bikepacking – If I was heading out I’d be taking it.

DaveRambo – fair enough and completely true in the UK

McM mentioned some pretty big volcanoes/ mountains where the altitude could mean seriously low temperatures. Given this and the probable need to layer over existing kit, down edges it…..unless he encounters biblical US rain for a month!

How about a Montane Flux. I hate taking mine off. I’m like Kenny in Southpark.

I would say a lightline is overkill for bike packing unless you are planning on doing the iditarod.

For bikepacking you just want something to compliment the clothes you would wear while cycling, I would suggest, you don’t need a hood, a thin beanie or buff that would be worn under the helmet while cycling will perform that duty off the bike, If you are carrying armwarmers for on the bike then sleeves are probably also not required. You just want something as light and packable as possible.

Prob not the right brand name, as you fellas seem to like spending money for the correct badges on your coats 😉 , but Sport Pursuit have some Bailo ones in at half price currently. Look good for £50odd
I promise not to use the money off voucher if you click here to have a look.

-Ultralight mens packable jacket
-Ergonomic fit
-90/10 duck down
-Down direct injection

Very tempted meself

I’m another who doesn’t like to spend £100’s on this stuff.

I got a Karrimor lightweight down jacket from Sports Direct a couple of years ago. Been used for -10c bike packing and kept me comfy combined with bike gear. Cost £25

Fill your boots without emptying your wallet

I went with the Rab infinity. Ordered it the other day,im a bit like a kid waiting for Christmas on its arrival.

http://www.rockrun.com/rab-infinity-jacket/

Jealous! I’m also on the look out for a down jacket, but that’s too big for me 👿

Funny – just clicked on McMoonter’s link – thought ooh, tempting.. then at that precise moment the one person I hate in the office walked in in his Rab looking like a complete arse and I thought ‘Nah’. 😆

McM – it should layer over your nanopuff thingy and be toasty warm