Well, sort of.

Like many here I have a nice summer roadie that I love to ride, it is fast, stiff and looks lovely. I also have a winter roadie, a PX Kaffenback that is heavy, with full guards, disk brakes and big tyres.

A thought has occurred recently, I simply don’t like riding the Kaff on the road. I’d always put it down to the conditions I rode it in (wet, wind, etc.) but I’ve taken my summer bike out in similar climes recently and enjoyed it still.

So my intention is this:
Remove the guards from the kaff, fit a CX chainset and use it for towpath/fire road pootling that I’m increasingly doing with the wife.
Use the current summer bike as a winter bike.
Buy a new posh summer bike.

Basically STW, please help me justify my desire for a new summer roadie.

Permission granted.

You could of course just ride that bike all year round

I bet you could ride a towpath path your current chain set

Don’t come to me to vindicated you n+1 problem

I realize my views will be in the minority

your new winter bike will definitely still be wanting guards though

You’ll still hate it. I propose donate it (provided it’s an XL) to me. This will give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside, honest.

chakaping, thank you.
ampthill, if I’d have wanted rational, sensible thoughts like that I would not have posted on STW.
legend, I’m not so sure. I rarely ride in groups so it is only me who gets wet and, whilst I’ve always been a huge advocate of guards, the last few rides have left me wondering if I really do need them.
sandwicheater, they are XL’s actually. Sadly, they won’t be donated though.

What is it that you don’t like about the Kaff?

I run an >X< with a similar build – specifics currently XKing knobblies but my ‘skinnies’ are 28mm Conti GPs. It is much nicer on road with the 28’s, and altering the gearing from Cotic’s default ‘weekday’ build of compact double with touring 11-32 cassette to a more normal CX ratio set at 36/46 (Stronglight rings on the existing crank) and a 12-28 out back has made it much more rideable allround.

The bottom line with any half decent cross bike is the geometry though. They’re slacker than regular roadies, and that’s going to have a big impact on riding position and allround handling.

Possibly one of the new crop of light, nice and reasonably c2w-friendly CX bikes might be an alternative?

include more off-road stuff in your winter road-rides, make use of / have fun with, the Kaffenback’s gnarliness.

Ditched my winter bike this year. Last year I persevered with it only to get back on my better bike and get knee pain and hip pain for a few weeks while I adjusted back. Just can’t see the point of riding something that’s not as enjoyable just to save a bit of wear and tear. Have put winter tyres on cheaper wheels and am prepared to change BB and headset in the spring and give it a new set of allen screws if needed. At the mo have decided against mudguards but may be tempted later on.

What is it that you don’t like about the Kaff?

In no particular order:

Fit. It’s too upright and not long enough despite having a 130mm slammed stem.
Weight. Lots of it, it’s really heavy.
Feel. It’s just feels dead, no zip at all, just feels dull to ride.

Now, none of these are huge deals and I suspect some of number 2 and 3 would be fixed with a new pair of wheels. But I am reluctant to spend money on it at the moment.

I’m all for nice winter bikes. I do nearly the same mileage in the winter as the summer so why would I want to ride a piece of junk? Plus I use it for audax and I don’t really want to be sitting on a slow/heavy ride for 600k 😉

Mines a Chinese carbon frame (FM028), Ulegra Di2, nice handbuilts, a dynamo and full guards.

Use the current summer bike as a winter bike.
Buy a new posh summer bike.

I rarely ride in groups so it is only me who gets wet

ride current summer bike through this winter with minimal winterisation (fatter tyres, ass-saver type mudguard).

If its shagged by the summer, use it as justification to buy a new summer bike. If it cleans up nicely with minimal expense…buy a new summer bike anyway 🙂

I ride a winter bike because I already owned it (first road bike I got when I was 16, so its now 26yrs old and a scary amount of it is original), its heavy, has crap brakes and downtube friction shifters 😯 . Difference is I get a perverse pleasure from riding it, and enjoy how amazing my summer bike feels in comparison.

Sounds like you don’t like the geometry compared with the roadie. Slacker head angle? Or is it just heft?

My winter and commuter is a steel fixed Paddy Waggon with carbon fork and bits and custom wheels and full guards. It is a very different ride to my race and nice road bikes, but the geometry is straight out of the road bike school (73 degree head angle). The fact that it weighs only 9 kilos makes it even nicer to ride, but even when it weighed 11, it was still very pleasant.

Try singlespeeding it, a few lighter parts – wheels and tyres is always a good start, with some lighter inner tubes (latex for me), and you may find it comes alive. It won’t ride like your nice bike, but there is no reason why it shouldn’t be a nice ride.

I ride a kaffenback to commute also.
Agree it is (a lot) heavier than my summer road bike. But it is so much more stable on wet and slippery roads. The disc brakes are brilliant (but yes – heavy).
Looking to upgrade the disc wheels to a lighter set to make it feel a bit more spritely. Other than that – the extra kilo on frame and forks over something in alloy isn’t really that much.

^^ this I’d agree with, it’s probably more the weight and heft to get the thing going that’s putting you off, that and the angles..

Anyhoos, ride your “summer” roadie right through, it’s what it’s meant to do, it’s a bike you need to ride it hard in all shitty weather to enjoy the summer..

Coversely, I bought a Genesis Equilbrium with 9 speed sora at the end of autumn, slung some guards on it, changed the cassette to an 11-30 Tiagra one from the stock 12-27 and it’s bloody ace, I actually think I prefer it to my Carbon TCR (granted I haven’t ridden it since August).

It weighs a frikkin ton (probably just under 11kgs with guards and cages) but the ride is so nice and smooth, it may well’ve turned my head in the direction of a posh steel bike that I can ride all year instead of having two.

ampthill, if I’d have wanted rational, sensible thoughts like that I would not have posted on STW.

This made me chuckle

legend, I’m not so sure. I rarely ride in groups so it is only me who gets wet and, whilst I’ve always been a huge advocate of guards, the last few rides have left me wondering if I really do need them.

Head out in the next monsoon that comes through. There really is nothing quite like a 2 hour long, freezing cold enema with repeated face shots 😉

sell the kaff
sell the winter trainer

buy a kinesis pro6, choose the right tyres and it will do pretty much all the riding in all the places you need to go on it

mudguards prolong the life of the bike and drivechain – and keep your feet and rse dry

The biggest revelation for me for year round riding was getting mudguards. If you use the bike every day in crap weather without them you will realize how absolutely covered in crud you and your bike get. This significantly adds to bike wear IMHO. It also makes winter riding far more unpleasant. Get a new bike by all means, but for me a winter bike needs ‘guards.

lunge – Member
Use the current summer bike as a winter bike.

1. It’s a road bike, the rider is a roadie.
2. Up to you, if I see you on a winter ride I will refuse to ride behind your non-existent/crappy mudguards, and I will laugh at your corroding, expensive, fancy parts, puncture-prone stupid tyres etc.
3. If you’re on your own and without mudguards I will laugh even harder at your more-quickly-corroding, expensive, fancy parts, puncture-prone stupid tyres etc.

😛

legend – Member
There really is nothing quite like a 2 hour long, freezing cold enema with repeated face shots

Erm this is a cycling thread?

Is there any merit in the notion that riding a heavier bike over the winter is better training? I kind of like the idea that hauling my 12kg CX bike up a hill every day is turning me into some kind of PowerHaus but I’m prepared to accept the fact that this idea might be based on nonsense.

OP – the point of a winter bike is that it should be nicer and more sustainable to ride in crappy conditions. If you can acheive that with a nice summer bike and a tolerance of cold water enemas then why on earth shouldn’t you?

Don’t know what your summer road bike is, but the 72 degree head angle on the Kaffenback will make it slow handling – tourer-esque. I think you want something a little faster handling. Weight helps, but heavier bikes with good geometry will ride more nicely than light bikes with poor geometry (my track bike on the road, for example!).

I had a kaffenback and a change of wheelset made a huge difference to the feel of the bike. However, I don’t think its going to get you where you want to get to.

If you dont have a requirement for mudguards and discs (and I did) – then I would use the summer bike or get the PX London road or something, which should be a lot lighter and feel nipper.

The genesis range is quite nice as well, and run more road based geometry so will feel nicer.

All other things being the same – going from a steel disc frame to alloy disc frame isn’t the answer (for me). Saves a kilo in weight – but I don’t think that’s going to be game changing. A fully winterized disc road bike with full mudguards and fatter winter tyres is going to be heavy(er).
Riding in rubbish weather with flint strewn roads – I appreciate decent braking, puncture proofing, dry backside and a cheaper drive-train to grind away.

sell both bikes

get a hydraulic disc-brake road bike that will take at least 25c tires, and get some mudguards

consistent stopping power in all conditions and no wear / tear to wheels from braking

11 speed Shimano 105 or even Ultegra are not expensive to replace as things wear, as long as you clean and lube it should not be an issue

problem solved 😉

So, further thought means it turns out I now need a new bike AND a set of wheels.

New plan is this:
Keffenback gets a new CX size crankset and a spare set of wheels. One with 28mm road tyres for very wet commutes, one with 32mm cross tyre for off-road stuff. Guards come off for CX type stuff and back on for commuting.
Current summer bikes gets used for most of my commuting (anything when its not heavily raining) along with most normal winter mileage.
New road bike is a proper summer bike and may get used for an occasional sunny commute.

Or…
Buy a cheap cross bike for toe path pootling and off road fun.
Keep Kaff as it is and exclusively use it for the filthiest of commutes and occasional very wet weekend rides
Current summer bike becomes a spring/autumn bike. Basically, this will get the most use as I’ll commute on it and ride wet weekend rides.
New summer bike. A sunny days, sunday best bike.

And so N+1 becomes N+2…

Sounds like quite a bit of faffage. On a cold wet morning do you really want to be swapping wheels and putting guards on a filthy bike that’s been used off road, all the while boiling away in your commuting gear?

Just swap the Kaff for something like a Kinesis 4S (or that Whyte if you feel you need discs.) Do you not need racks on your commuter?

Either that or just get some winter wheels and race blades for the summer bike.

mrblobby, no need for a rack as I commute 3 days per week. Monday I take a weeks of clothes in, ride Tuesday to Thursday, Friday back on the train and take the dirties home. It’s a 40 mile each way commute and I don’t have the fitness to do 5 days anyway. It does however mean that which ever bike I commute on I spend a lot of time riding, hence I want to enjoy riding it.

If you don’t like the Kaffenback just get rid.

Put some clip on guards (or proper guards if it’ll take them) on your existing bike and see how you get on this winter.

If that works out, bingo!

If not, there’s a reasonable selection of winter specific road bikes with more sporty geometry which will weigh much less than your Kaffenback.

It’s a 40 mile each way commute

8)

thats a long time to spend in the saddle of a bike you dont like.

Put some clip on guards (or proper guards if it’ll take them) on your existing bike and see how you get on this winter.

basically what I said earlier, but more so given the miles youre doing. Winterize, ride, and see what its like come spring. Save the money from all your faffage options (why do you need a CX chainset for tow path pootling?!) for a spring overhaul, or to put towards a new sunday best (have you worked out how much youre saving not taking train/car?).

I only have one road bike, it gets used all year.

It’s carbon, so not worried about frame corrosion. The idea seems to be that the 10sp drivetrain ‘won’t last long’ in winter, but it’s lasted 8 years and the chain needs changing far less often than the MTBs I’m used to.

The tyres are fine summer and winter, no issues. I use clip on guards if it’s bad. The only issue is that the slit in the seattube faces backwards, so on a really wet ride if I haven’t got the guards on it accumulates a bit of water. Ok, a lot. Maybe a cup full. Of course, this can happen in sumemr too! I squished some warm candle wax in there though, that seems to stop it.

Perfectly possible, and doesn’t need to be any kind of a deal. I don’t do it out of desire to be maverick – just don’t see enough of a downside to warrant another £1500 outlay.

I am not sure spending money on the kaffenback will help. However. Kinesis tripster may.:-)

Ha! That’s what I’ve just done.

However, my Kaffy did completely rust through (chainstay) after over 6 years London commuting and winter club runs.

The angles aren’t relaxed on the one I have. HTA:73° STA: 73.5° It’s the beige canti brake version, though.

Ditch the guards, ditch the fat tyres swap the discs for canti’s. So you don’t have a bike built to go slow and stop quick.

Wear over shoes and a jacket when it’s wet. Go euro and fit a crud catcher on the back for when it’s horrid.

Given up on guards, hate them on cobbles and rough roads and when you pack up the bike.