Specialized S-Works, or sometimes if it's particularly cold I wear my old Met Scudo cos it's less vented keeps me head warmer.
Bike Forum
Cycling in London #2 (RLJ content)
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Posted 4 months ago #
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RLJ'ing is dangerous, but more importantly it's selfish.
It makes other road users hate us and also makes them more likely to ignore traffic signals themselves.
Which just makes everyones life a bit more stressful, dangerous and unpleasant.Whilst I'm not bothered if some idiotic cyclist gets killed RLJ'ing, I do feel sorry for the driver of the other vehicle involved.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Yeah but Rusty; there's a difference between RLJing in situations where it's perfectly safe to do so, and someone being an idiot.
My experience of riding in London has taught me when it's safe to do so, and when it's not. So I use that experience to ensure I have a safe and pleasant journey.
I also ride on pavements and stuff sometimes. Shock horror! What a naughty boy I am...
Posted 4 months ago # -
Yeah but Rusty; there's a difference between RLJing in situations where it's perfectly safe to do so, and someone being an idiot.
No there isn't. Everyone still thinks the RLJ'er is a selfish tosser.
I couldn't care less if the RLJ'er thinks it's safe or not, they are still exhibiting behaviour which makes everyone elses life a little worse.If you can't see that, then you're part of the problem, frankly.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I couldn't care less if the RLJ'er thinks it's safe or not, they are still exhibiting behaviour which makes everyone elses life a little more unpleasant.
Don't be so melodramatic. Tell you what, come and ride with me in That London, then you'll actually get a fairer picture of how I ride.
Everyone still thinks the RLJ'er is a selfish tosser.
I couldn't care less. I think people driving well over the speed limit in town, using mobile telephones whislt driving, not using their mirrors, driving dangerously etc are all 'selfish tossers'.
The difference is, their behaviour is far, far, far more likely to result in serious injury or even death.
This is what it comes down to.
If you can't see that, then you're part of the problem, frankly.
Nonsense. That's like saying if you ever drive above the speed limit, then you are 'part of the problem' of accidents caused by speeding. Are you?
I was once fined for startling a goat, on my bicycle.
It's true.
Posted 4 months ago # -
It makes other road users hate us and also makes them more likely to ignore traffic signals themselves.
This always gets trotted out on threads relating to any cyclists behaviour, and to me it's just bs for STW hand wringers. Whilst riding home one night last week I saw a van pull the wrong way up a one way street to make a delivery near the bottom of said street, seemingly to avoid the time heading round the block, it niether made me hate van drivers or want to head the wrong way down a one way street.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Don't be so melodramatic. Tell you what, come and ride with me in That London, then you'll actually get a fairer picture of how I ride.
It's not melodramatic, it's true.
Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable.
I couldn't care less. I think people driving well over the speed limit in town, using mobile telephones whislt driving, not using their mirrors, driving dangerously etc are all 'selfish tossers'.The difference is, their behaviour is far, far, far more likely to result in serious injury or even death.
Really? Could you show me the stats that back this up? Or are you just trying to justify your selfish behaviour again?
Do two wrongs actually make a right after all?
That's like saying if you ever drive above the speed limit, then you are 'part of the problem' of accidents caused by speeding. Are you?
Yes.
This always gets trotted out on threads relating to any cyclists behaviour, and to me it's just bs for STW hand wringers. Whilst riding home one night last week I saw a van pull the wrong way up a one way street to make a delivery near the bottom of said street, seemingly to avoid the time heading round the block, it niether made me hate van drivers or want to head the wrong way down a one way street.Well good for you.
However, humans use others' behaviour to justify and legitimise their own. You are the exception that proves the rule.
And the continued constant drip, drip, drip of selfishness and thoughtlessness makes our lives more stressful and uncomfortable then they otherwise could be.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Really? Could you show me the stats that back this up?
With pleasure:
Pedestrian casualties 2001-09
Killed by cycles: 18
Seriously injured by cycles: 434
Killed by cars: 3,495
Seriously injured by cars: 46,245
Figures apply to Great Britain. Source: Department for TransportFrom this BBC article.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13040607
And more:
Great Britain cycle safety statistics
In 2008, pedal bikes made up 1.8% of urban, non-motorway traffic but were involved in just 0.25% of pedestrian deaths and below 1% of serious pedestrian injuries
During the same year, there were 13,272 recorded collisions between cars and bicycles, resulting in the deaths of 52 cyclists and no car drivers or passengers
A study of collisions between cyclists and other vehicles from 2005-07 found police allocated blame to drivers in 60% of cases, to the cyclist in 30% and to both parties in the remainder
Source: Department for TransportPosted 4 months ago # -
some people run red lights, some don't.
that's their choice, and they choose to suffer the consequeneces whether that be a police fine, some pedestrian fist pie or being flattened by a an artic.
.
my questions is why bother? what are you in such a rush for that you can't wait one minute for, at most? or is it the 'rush' of breaking the law? or are you racing against other cyclists?Posted 4 months ago # -
So where are the stats specifically relating to RLJ'ing?
See, selfish people can always justify their behaviour.
Things are always someone elses fault.Posted 4 months ago # -
Well good for you.
However, humans use others' behaviour to justify and legitimise their ownI just believe most people can differentiate between between the actions of an individual and those of a group, and most people take responsibility for their own actions. By your logic if I saw a white teenager shoplifing, I would have to assume all white teenagers are shoplifters, and it would be fine to also nick something from that shop because the teenager did. It doesn't seem right to me, but keep going.
Posted 4 months ago # -
smell it - if you are already predisposed to dislike a certain group, you WILL use the behaviour of one individual to define that group as a whole.
Happens all the time.And yes, the behaviour of others does influence our own.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I've commuted the same route in London for 5 years.
I've noticed two things:
- more cyclists
- more cyclists willing to jump red lights
- more pedestrians pissed off with cyclists willing to jump red lights
QEDPosted 4 months ago # -
But it's totally dependent on each individual situation, in't it Brakes?
I mean, RLJing round Parliament Square or somewhere would be insane and utterly stupid, not to mention extremely dangerous.
But when it's late at night, there's no traffic or pedestrians, and I want to get home, I'm not going to be stopping at every flipping light, cos it's just pointless.
Or how about times when a ped presses the button, but then crosses before it turns green for them, and then you get to the lights and they've turned red. No-one else about to cross. I just ride through 'em.
my questions is why bother? what are you in such a rush for that you can't wait one minute for, at most?
TBh, I doubt I run more than 10-20% of all red lights at all times, really. Even if I'm in a hurry, I'll always ride in a manner where my own safety is priority. Funnily enough, this happens to also coincide with needing to ensure safety to pedestrians and other road users.
Loving the sanctimoniousness on here....
Posted 4 months ago # -
if you are already predisposed to dislike a certain group, you WILL use the behaviour of one individual to define that group as a whole
if I ... already had a grump against
saw awhiteteenagerteenagers, and saw just one shoplifting, I wouldhave to assume all white teenagers are shoplifterspoint and say 'see!'all of us do this all of the time.
it's the way we're wired.
but we can choose to think around it a bit.
on the RLJ'ing, i realised the other day that i sometimes do the opposite; i stop if it's green.
there's a junction on my way home which can be tricky to cross on 'green'; it's uphill, and it's a long way across, and if i ride through the green light just as it changes, i find myself in the middle of the junction with cars accelerating towards me.
so if it's green, i stop and wait for the red, so i can go ahead of the line and wait for the green, so i can nip across before anyone get's a chance to kill me.
Posted 4 months ago # -
smell it - if you are already predisposed to dislike a certain group, you WILL use the behaviour of one individual to define that group as a whole.
If some ignorant knob has decided to hate all cyclists, I'm not going to waste energy trying to change their onions, quite frankly. I'm too busy just getting on with riding my bike in a manner which ensures my own safety is paramount.
Posted 4 months ago # -
By jumping red lights
Posted 4 months ago # -
But it's totally dependent on each individual situation, in't it Brakes?
if we extrapolate, you are condoning the ignoring of traffic signals by cyclists.
so if all cyclists did this without fear of repercussion, knowing that they did so within the law, what would happen?
bedlam? maybe not.
more accidents? probably.
some cyclists may have the benefit of common sense and the ability to recognise when it is safe to cross the road, others need to be guided by traffic signals.
the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the (arrogant) few.Posted 4 months ago # -
Loving the sanctimoniousness on here....
Why is it santimonious to expect cyclists to behave with the same consideration that you expect from car drivers?
Do as I say, not as I do eh Elf?
We've got a word for that, beginning with 'h'.Posted 4 months ago # -
Why is it santimonious to expect cyclists to behave with the same consideration that you expect from car drivers?
There are significant differences between cyclists and cars though. Not least speed and size.
I do think RLJing is a problem, but this is because too many people do stupid things. And yes, it's increasing disproportionately with the number of cyclists in London especially.
Yes, it needs to be addressed.
But then so do myriad other issiues which affect our towns and cities. Not least, the number of cars on the roads.
As for red lights and cycles; how do other countries differ? Are there other countries where cyclists are legally allowed to run certain red lights? What is the affect on road and pedestrian safety in such places?
The issue needs addressing sensibly and thoughtfully, rather than blanketing all people who might jump red lights as 'wronguns'.
Posted 4 months ago # -
There are red lights where the only sensible thing to do is to jump them - those that never go green for a bike, those where the road layout is so dangerous that its safer to jump.
there are those it doesn't matter - where yo can see clearly and there is no risk
There are those its stupid to jump.
I personally jump red lights when it is safer for me to do so. MY safety is paramount
Posted 4 months ago # -
Ultimately I don't care what you do, I do think it sets a bad example to younger riders who don't have the road knowledge and experience. I ride in London and pass a few schools, I often see plebs jumping the lights even with a lollipop lady, it's those riders I wish harm, the roads would be a better place without them.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I just believe most people can differentiate between between the actions of an individual and those of a group
That's not my experience.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I think it's a personal choice, I used to do it, now I don't.
There are many occasions when driving into work that I could ignore a red, but I don't as anyone can make a mistake and get it wrong.
It's easier to get a bad reputation than foster a good one, how many times have you heard the non-cyclist say things like 'all cyclists jump red lights, I saw ONE the other day go straight through'I think bad behaviour encourages others to do the same, why not start setting an example? If one group stands out it makes the others look bad/good (like us RLJ'ing gives motorists the moral high ground).
The upside of stopping at reds is that it's like interval training and makes you stronger
Ideally I'd like an ideal world, not gonna happen though!
Posted 4 months ago # -
Find some of the posts here staggering. Yip, i'm such a good experienced driver i'm also able to decide which lights i think are safe to jump.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I pointed out that he'd done the same a couple of minutes earlier but he just couldn't get it.
see hypocritical cyclists a few times of the week in London - happy to jump red lights, ride on the pavement, generally ride like twits.. but the minute someone else wrongs them (cyclists, peds, taxis etc) they are all 'f'in and blinding and 'i have that on camera etc etc...
see one comedy guy on a tourer a few times.. followed him towards victoria from waterloo... at each red light he would do a moving dismount and then run through the junction and then hop back on... very funny to watch...
Posted 4 months ago #
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