I'm looking for a slack, solid hardtail with an ISCG in a 19" or 20". Its going to be used for everything – DH sessions, xc rides etc.

I've shortlisted the aforementioned frames – has anyone ridden these 2 frames and if so any comments? (Please no recommendations for On-Ones, Ragleys).

Cotic is longer in the tt and can take bigger forks. Which is why I ordered one yesterday.

I've never ridden either, but if you had a picture of both fully built up and asked for votes on aesthetics alone, I'd be putting a big tick next to the Cotic.

Given that they are probably (and by all accounts I've read) brilliant bikes for what you want, the choice is going to come down to either cost, warranty, availability or aesthetics.

Built P7 last Nov as winter bike but have since fitted 140mm Vanilla's and use all the time (5 hasn't been out since)
Can't believe how much fun it is. 😆

dunno why but I'd think the p7 is more xc biased like a soul equivalent & a bfe more of a looning about bike.

I loved my Cotic BFe with Pikes until I found the joys of 29er wheels.

P7 doesn't have ISCG tabs as far as i know and like billybob said is more xc that "do it all".
I'll put my money on the Cotic if I was in your shoes.

cotic 8)

isnt the crush a better equivalent to the BFE?

Yeah reckon the crush is more of a comparison but it's not steel.

Nice Bfe video

Orange is definitely more XC and more of an all dayer

My heart says Cotic but there aren't any second hand ones around…So my wallet says later p7 with the iscg.

Seen this?

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-orange-p7-frame-2009

2010 P7 has an ISCG mount.

Just be careful with the drop outs on the P7, I've heard a few people complain about the older models having sliding drop outs that don't stay in place for long.

I was thinking of getting a soul/P7/Handjob. Eventually found a Cove Handjob going cheap on here and bought that.

If I had no other bikes I'd get a P7- more of an all rounder. If I had more than one I'd get the Bfe as a fun second bike.

Sparkingchains – I'm tempted by it, but for another 70quid I can have a lovely new blue Cotic…

Dialled alpine or Evil sovereign or some sort of Cromag (pricey++)would get my vote.

Cotic also seem a great company, met a few of them at the cycle show. All their bikes look pretty darn good!

Why?

Given that the op has specifically said he wants one bike to do everything including xc on, why go for one of those which have very short toptubes even in the largest sizes? If he needs a 19/20in then the largest Alpine will almost certainly be way too short and cramped and the evil won't be much better. The chromag samurai would be fine but he's given a fairly strong indication of budget and they're nearly 3x that.

Typical "X or Y?, neither – Z" STW response…

Edit – ref SLW

That comes across a lot more arsey than I'd planned – if my smilies worked I'd put one in! Just wondering why you think they'd be better?

I am entitled to my opinion as are you. Enjoy your gate.

Sorry, just assumed you had some kind of reason for the reply.

P7 is a arm hair ride, I have mine as a fully ridged and rides great

Given that the op has specifically said he wants one bike to do everything including xc on, why go for one of those which have very short toptubes even in the largest sizes?

because when choosing a compromise (as that's what a "do it all bike" is) frame you can have a downhill biased frame or an xc biased frame. so essentially either kind of bike is the right answer. i.e. a compromise.

FWIW the 18in alpine is the same effective top tube as a medium BFE the large BFE 3/4in longer

Good explanation and facts to back it up… Just what I'd be looking for, much better than "neither, got these instead. Why? Not telling…"

I've got 2010 P7 as a winter bike.Built it it up with old bits and other people's cast-offs. Rides well,good on the descents. It has Revelations on the front. Seat post sliding has been the only problem.Easily solved with a Hope non QR collar.
Too expensive for a Taiwanese built frame,the same applies to Cotic. Why the aversion to On Ones and Ragleys? Too reasonably priced?

Sparking chains, that link you put is not the Bfe, its to the simple… Singlespeed with rigid forks.

As MrSmith says. I was about to go to the pub hence brief replies. Its all about whether you want to bias a do it all bike towards dh or xc.

neither of us are right or wrong, just food for thought for the op.

I wouldn't pay rrp for a cromag either!

hic!

Thank you IvanDobski re: Typical "X or Y?, neither – Z" STW response…

The reason I said no Ragleys is they have no iscg; no On-ones as I've had one and didn't like it. I've narrowed down my options and don't want them opened up again!

Orange Crush – ditto no iscg.

Any other advice gratefully appreciated.

P7

P7

ivan, the evil is also quite long in the top tube, 23.75 ish for a large if i remember rightly. not going to get a good deal on a 2010 one for a while i wouldnt have thought. of the two.

for a slack, solid ht id go for the bfe, especially with the dh sessions in mind. im sure the p7 would be better for all round xc but from what i know of the previous version its no lightweight so the bfe probably wouldnt disadvantage you any in those stakes, especially if you had a u-turn fork on it.

so yeah, bfe!

BFe, same angles as a soul so its fine for xc stuff. Strong enough for dh and the shortish stays make it fun for messing about on. Cheaper than an Orange too

Jeez. That guy in the vimeo footage on a Cotic Simple has some pretty amazing bike skills and what's really impressive is he's riding those trails with rigid forks.

Case closed – Bought a P7 from STW classifieds (thanks Denis99!).

Even though I still fancy a Bfe, the lack of second hand frames and the fact that I've got a bunch of bits to fit the Orange swung it. I've got an old (1997) P7 and I'm looking forward to seeing how they compare…