Depends what you think that investment should be. Do you think it should be a financial investment in spending a lot of money to send them to private school? Do you think it should be a time investment in being at home with them as much as possible, not working long hours away from home to get more money? Do you think it should be a social investment by letting them go to a local school with all their friends and children from all backgrounds so they get a more balanced view of society?

This. My kids crave my time and attention more than anything else, so that’s what they get. I doubt very much that their lives would be significantly improved if I owned a newer car, or went on posh holidays instead of camping.

Friend at Sherborne who is battling at the moment to get a pay rise commensurate with state sector.

Should have the balls to move then.

Do you work sat mornings, two weeks extra in the summer hols on activites week. Contracted to come in a week before school starts after the summer.
After school clubs/activities every night that you have to run?
Lunch time clubs?

I work sat mornings or sunday mornings or weekend afternoons, have to, its not directed time though. The holiday thing is a red herring private schools have longer holidays. I do catch up or dt’s pretty much every day at lunch or after school.

The holiday thing is a red herring private schools have longer holidays

Yes indeed but I had to work 3 weeks of those, that was my point, I had assumed everyone knows that Private have longer holidays. Most of my friends in state sector walk out the door on last day of school and go away for 6 weeks only thinking about work the weekend before they come back. Which is a holiday they need as its so bloody knackering/demanding.
Anywa to be clear, I was not being critical, I was a asking convert what has contributed to his reduction in effective hourly rate and illustrating how many hrs I had to do.

The Sherborne friend is attmepting to do exactly that, but you know how difficult it is, to leave for nxt academic year she has to have given notice last term. Its not like normal jobs where you can accept an offer and then change your mind when your current boss agrees to give you a raise.

I don’t want to turn this into a willy waving ‘who works the longest/hardest’ competition but as I say I have worked in both. I can only talk anecdotally about the 3 state schools I worked in for 10 yrs and the independent boarding (the boarding bit is probably crucial in the comparison) I work in now but the difference in the amount I work is significant. Life changing significant. I can’t tell you the number of marriage breakups on the staff here. It’s also pretty ruthless – the moment you are considered to be underperforming you are gone. Everyone I know on the staff has an exit strategy ready for the day.

Well I don’t have a willy so..

db, out of interest…..

When you speak of privately-educated children being more confident, personable, articulate etc….how can you be sure that its not your own attitude to these children that’s generating that response? Putting them at ease, letting them relax, etc.

Its just that you state above that you already know that they’re privately educated- observer bias at play here?

See, I’ve always wondered if, deep down, a lot of us working-class kids are subconsciously genuflecting.

No offence intended btw, just wondering.

Its just that you state above that you already know that they’re privately educated- observer bias at play here?

Where did I state that?
I’m not offended but let me assure you I do know about confirmation bias and many other logical fallacies.
When I meet them I don’t know their backgrounds, but I can guess pretty fast.
Eye contact, clear speech, manners, and well defined purpose of speech are more common in my anecdotal experience.
Of course nobody is immune to observer bias, but before I worked in private sector I had no such bias – I just did not know anything about it.
You could accuse any of the other psoters on here of the same thing.
Epicyclo mentioned nepotism and cronyism, does he have evidence/experience of that? It is easy to say that private education is part of a club that promotes its own but it could be possible that it is just better at producing individuals who are more ready, able and prepared to be leaders. (and expectant)

For dbcooper:-

My working week last year, as in contracted hours expected on site:-

Monday – 0800-2030 (lessons to 5.30pm, then an activity before dinner then an assembly that finishes at 8.30pm
Tuesday – 0800-1530 – my half day! I get to go at 3.30pm if I can – 50/50 I get to go. We all get one of these a week.
Wednesday – 0800-1900 – lessons to lunchtime then the afternoon is filled up with curriculum meetings, reviews, tutorials and drop in coursework support. tutor time 5.15-6pm then assembly to 7pm
Thursday – 0800-2030 – lessons to 5.30pm then an early activity, dinner then a late activity.
Friday – 0800-2300 – lessons to 5.30pm then on duty on a boarding house until 11pm. Actually on duty all night in a flat so could be called upon during the night.
Saturday – 0700-1300. Breakfast duty then academic lessons until 1pm.

Additionally one in 3 weekends I’ll be on duty for the weekend. That means being on site Saturday afternoon, evening and night (sleeping in a flat in the boarding house) and then through until 10pm on Sunday evening. Most of it is pretty light in terms of work save half a dozen sign ins and then organising an evening activity for about 30 boarders (movie night, BBQ etc).

Throughout the year we are expected to do 6 ‘all-in’ weekends – 5 academic an one community driven. On an academic one I’ll have groups of GCSE or A level students getting coursework support, lectures etc or whatever is appropriate for the subject – That’s Saturday 1400-1700 and Sunday 1000-1700. On the community one I’ll be supervising kids doing something positive for the community usually involving manual labour for similar sort of hours.

All staff need to be involved taking a trip in holiday time. My usual one is a week in Swaziland working on a water for primary school project.

All inset is done in school holiday time (rather than inset days in term time with the state system). Last year I had 6 days worth of compulsory inset in the holidays.

We run the intake assessment (entrance tests) in the holiday time – 3 days.

Next week as a department head I am compulsorily in school for 2 days for A level results then one day for the GCSE results the week after.

To be fair bar the odd meeting I don’t have any commitments/detentions etc in the lunchtimes.

Sounds very similar to my experience. I wasn’t even lucky enough to abroad that often though. As a junior staff member I had to run the local or Uk based activities. I did go to france one year for a week..
But we all know that whilst it sounds like a holiday, but often isn’t. I wanted to be at home with my kids.

dbcooper – Member
…Epicyclo mentioned nepotism and cronyism, does he have evidence/experience of that? It is easy to say that private education is part of a club that promotes its own but it could be possible that it is just better at producing individuals who are more ready, able and prepared to be leaders.

Only anecdotal – from my own experiences as a business owner and as a reasonably substantial employer before I retired. The local business association was forever promoting the output of the local private school amongst us. The sales pitch was pure class distinction stuff and quite nauseating as far as I was concerned.

Epicyclo mentioned nepotism and cronyism, does he have evidence/experience of that? It is easy to say that private education is part of a club that promotes its own but it could be possible that it is just better at producing individuals who are more ready, able and prepared to be leaders. (and expectant)

I expect its both.
Convert, why work at such a place if you think you could earn as much with less work elsewhere?

anagallis_arvensis – Member
I work in the state sector, have never set foot in a private school

I am surprised by that Dr. Makes your insight all the more incredible.

But you should try it, it might be another surprise!

Convert, why work at such a place if you think you could earn as much with less work elsewhere?

Vocation?

Convert, why work at such a place if you think you could earn as much with less work elsewhere?

I don’t. As I said I earn substantially more, especially when you take the whole package into account. My hourly rate is not good simply because I have to be at work so much.

I stay because for the moment I love it. To be honest I had had it with teaching before I came here. It’s quite an alternative place (it’s far more liberal than most schools and in terms of culture probably nothing like your preconceptions about public schools would have you imagine) which probably helps. The relationship with the kids it brilliant; it is a genuine community unlike anything I have experienced outside of my time in the forces. For the subject I teach I have opportunities that would not be available anywhere else (private or state). Students (paid and on scholarships) come to the school specifically to do my subject and most of my A level students go on to do the subject at university so the motivation is incredible. There will become a time when I either burn out or my face does not fit and I’ll be gone but for the moment it works for me.

“The findings come after accountancy firm Ernst and Young (EY) announced it is removing all academic and education details from its trainee application process.”

<I>I would be willing to bet that private educated kids still do better even after this. </I>

this is where I work and I interview quite a bit- of my team of 8, myself and one other went to private school, the rest are state school. From my experience, it isn’t the case that private school candidates perform any better (or worse) than those from state school.

I was personally surprised to read the press recently about the preference in the big firms for privately educated – I’ve worked in other firms, over a period of 20 years, where I can see it would have been an advantage , but here and now, I don’t see the private school on the CV adding anything.

I recruit a lot and frankly never give the school more than a cursory glance. Not a determining factor IME. The individual is what counts rather than some comprehensive generalisation…..

why work at such a place if you think you could earn as much with less work elsewhere?

I know this was aimed at Convert and not at me, but as I said for me it was easier. It was less stressful and actually quite pleasant.

The individual is what counts rather than some comprehensive generalisation…..

I don’t see the private school on the CV adding anything.

I agree with both of these statements.
There is also an issue with statistics and how they are applied. The statistics show that private educated kids do better in the logn run, so some people apply their own prejudices and theories (as I did).
But one must remember that many private schools are selective, and private schools are only a small proportion fo the cohort under study.

am surprised by that Dr. Makes your insight all the more incredible.
But you should try it, it might be another surprise!

I have never claimed to have any insight to the private sector apart from people leaving the state sector in large numbers and never returning. I’d love to spend some time at one and see what I could learn and take back with me but I doubt that will ever happen. I wont work in one its not what floats my boat. I always inagine people like convert love the subject first and enjoy seeing people progress in it. I love the struggle of getting the reluctant to work and make something of themselves, the subject comes second.
Convert without going into details it sounds like a lot of what your workload is has similarities with state slt whilst you sound like you are at a step below that as a head of department. I would guess thats why pay and expectations, lets not call it work load as many a nqt work unbelievable hours, are higher.

But one must remember that many private schools are selective,

and no doubt much better lets be honest.

I love the struggle of getting the reluctant to work and make something of themselves

Admirable. I did this for 10 odd years and it was very tiring. I hope to never do it again, was thankless.

and no doubt much better lets be honest.

I guess its what you define as better – if producing kids who are well rounded, useful, and potent is what you want then yes I agree entirely.

They must spend the huge sums of money on something worth while and the kids do end up earning more.

My experience echoes that of the OP, the money is primarily spent on small classes. our school was materially falling apart at the seams, classes all well below 20 kids.
Added to kids that want to work, and parents that will back you up, and we have a winner.
Aside from the staff and management my private school experience was comparitavely blissful. I really enjoyed knowing the kids and the parents and my challenge was how to maximise their learning, not how to minimise disruption.
Surely all teachers must think that small classes are a good idea (HINT this means spending money on moar teechers!!!)