ok, i’m starting from absolutely no knowledge of this, so i’m sorry for my ignorance…

hypothetically speaking…

if i am working in a start-up, which has no income, and is therefore supplying me with no income, is there any income support i am eligible for?

no kids, no disability, am NI registered, rented accommodation, possibly working a 2nd part time job 10-15 hrs per week to supplement living of savings.

No basically.

You have to be available for work.

Edit – maybe housing benefit.

ok.

so, hypothetically speaking, if i am looking for part time work, i guess that’s not going to help, as i am formally employed by said start-up?

ah! how does housing benefit work?

Housing benefit – from your council to pay (part of ) your rent if your earnings are low.

Possibly other in eork benefits as well but doubtful there are on line benefits calculators that are accurate

cheers teej!

looks like i’ll be a pauper for a while then 😐

anyone got 250k to invest in something which is blatantly going to be incredible? 😉

Look at grants from central/local government and/or ‘apprentice’ grants. Also you can pay yourself minimum wage and then top-up with benefits?

But the plus side is once it takes off you can earn upto £42k and pay no tax/NI except corp. tax – so there is something to look forward to 🙂

why isnt it incredible now?

anyone got 250k to invest in something which is blatantly going to be incredible?

To steal a phrase:

Q – how do I make a small fortune at <insert industry>?

A – start with a large fortune…

Working tax credits, surely?

If you’re under 30, might be worth contacting the Prince’s trust.
http://www.princes-trust.org.uk/need_help/enterprise_programme.aspx

Housing benefit is dependent on income and savings/investments/capital.

Go to uni and use the student loan. You’ll also get council tax exemption.

Technically, as long as you’re “available” you can claim…

I’m not about to start an argument as to the ins and outs of should someone claim, or should they not, but if you want to drop me an email (in my profile), I’ve give you my take on it…

FWIW, I think you’ll be able to claim full JSA and Housing Benefits as long as you’re cute about a couple of things.

thanks for the tips guys – will have a good look into it 🙂

why isnt it incredible now?

because our CTO hasn’t quite finished the build… launch the beta in 2 weeks.

b r – we’re looking for the person with the fortune as we speak 😉

mboy – Member
FWIW, I think you’ll be able to claim full JSA and Housing Benefits as long as you’re cute about a couple of things.

Is that ‘cute’ aka ‘fraud’?

You could shop yourself once you start earning and then pay it back?

TBH I’d consider it really unethical to claim, it’s not like you are on the dole and earning £10 here and there.

You could shop yourself once you start earning and then pay it back?

TBH I’d consider it really unethical to claim, it’s not like you are on the dole and earning £10 here and there.

i kinda get your point, but unless there would be a 2nd job, my income would be zero (as it has been for the past 18 months…). considering i’ve paid tax in the past, and will be paying tax in the future, surely using the system as it’s set up is perfectly ethical?

we’re starting a new uk based business, will be employing more and more people, and will all be paying tax (hopefully in reasonable sums), so why ethically can we not try and get support so we can actually realise our plans?

It’s only unethical imo if you are not being truthful.

Any start up involves risk and no or low pay for those who will ultimately cane it in if things in well, that’s just the deal is it not?

absolutely. and i’m not intending on being dishonest.

if money runs out pre investment, there won’t be a company full stop. 4 more people fighting for full time jobs, no future employment by said company for x number of other people, no corporation tax, no income tax, no NI payments etc etc etc

ultimately the benefits system is there to support people on low incomes, regardless of their past or future. that’s my situation.

i’m only asking, as its an option i might want to explore further in the future, if it turns out my savings don’t last very long.

appreciate the info and links 🙂

anyway, this is entirely hypothetical 😉

You can claim job seekers but only if you are also looking for work in your chosen field at the same time. Best thing is to be open with your job centre and they will support you with loads of free business classes and advice providers. They basically have to deal with dossers most of the time who can’t be arsed to work so I found them really enthusiastic when I was in this position a couple of years back. You can also claim £800 business startup grant when you sign off and start running your business.

I think it’s perfectly ethical for him to claim.
He has no income at present but is making the effort to get an income unlike, I suspect, quite a few on the dole. He is more actively seeking an income than most! As long as he stops claiming when he starts earning then I can’t see a problem with it.
Whether that is legally correct is another matter.
.
Also, how do tax credits work? Do you have to have an income to get them?
.
[EDIT] Woody knows more than I do

Is that ‘cute’ aka ‘fraud’?

Not at all. The guy isn’t getting paid at the moment, but he is spending a significant amount of time investing in setting something up that could pay off in the long run.

Whilst he’s not earning, he technically has no “paid job” so therefore is entitled to benefits no? The only thing that would stop them is “lack of availability to work”, so all you need to do is tell them you are available to work should a paid job arise. Then if a paid job did arise (not that likely right at this second in this period of high unemployment) so he’d be able to carry on doing what he’s doing currently now for most of the time (except turning up to sign on every 2 weeks at the Job Centre). If any job did arise, simply he would have to restructure his time to fit his current activities in elsewhere in the week around the paid work.

Saying “sorry, I’m busy doing something else all week, it doesn’t pay but I can’t work cos I’m too busy already” is going to get you laughed out the Job Centre, but as long as you’re “technically available” to work, you’ll get your £65 a week (or whatever it is) and your rent paid…

The only thing that would stop them is “lack of availability to work”,

That’s why it would be fraud, it’s that simple.

from my OP

possibly working a 2nd part time job 10-15 hrs per week to supplement living of savings.

until i get paid, we’re all open to working 2 jobs, and so i would be available to work. i’d be looking for exclusively part time work, so i’m not sure what bearing this would have, however.

came into this post not knowing at all whether there would be anything i can look at, so am happy that there might be options. if it comes to requiring benefits (when my money runs out), i’ll look closely at the legal side of the options.

Go in yo the job centre, explain your position and see what they say.

Technically, as long as you’re “available” you can claim…

you have to be not working he is working and he is not available the fact he is not getting any money from work is his problem,

FWIW, I think you’ll be able to claim full JSA and Housing Benefits as long as you’re cute about a couple of things.

see above

Not at all. The guy isn’t getting paid at the moment, but he is spending a significant amount of time investing in setting something up that could pay off in the long run.

yes that is called working

Whilst he’s not earning, he technically has no “paid job” so therefore is entitled to benefits no?

no he is still working

The only thing that would stop them is “lack of availability to work”, so all you need to do is tell them you are available to work should a paid job arise.

he is working
have you got the point yet?
please dont follow that advice because they ask you EVERY TIME YOU SIGN ON have you done any paid or unpaid work and you legally then have to answer YES – anything else would be a lie and fraud
I do not speak from ignorance.
Remember

if i am working in a start-up,

th fact you are not getting paid does not mean you are not working
HB is income based so you should be eligible.

You may get away with claiming but you would need to lie

not planning on lying about anything – just asking a question 🙂

no worries op, it’s not you that’s suggesting fraud.

working tax credits and housing benefit perhaps..?

you only have to be available for work to claim unemployment type benefits..

there’s plenty of mean tested help available for people on low incomes

Is advising on a start up seen as work? i.e. just standing there and not even lifting a finger but only answered when asked.

A while back there was this programme on BBC about, I think it was Monty, trying to survive living on the highland alone so he had to learn some skills. Monty was taught the skills but the person who taught him was standing beside him watching over his work without lifting a finger to help because according to the person (Monty’s trainer/teacher), helping out would be considered as work while giving advice or being asked was not. oh ya … the trainer/teacher was not paid.

So the definition of work is = Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

So does that mean the Monty’s trainer/teacher was wrong?

Eh?

This is also why Cameron’s Big Society is so flawed with high unemployment, because it wants people to do good work for free yet they’re penalised for doing so.

It was the same back in the early 90’s. I knew many people who worked on conservation projects unpaid, passionate about what they did and aiming to start a career, but they were forced to apply for 3 jobs a week and hope they didn’t get them.

chewkw – different issue. IIRC, that was when Monty was killing and butchering his own animals. If the otehr guy had got involved, there would have been all sorts of food & hygiene rules involved.

csb – the OP isn’t wanting to “do good work for free”. It’s a start-up which he hopes is going to make him wealthy, not a charity.

Whilst he’s not earning, he technically has no “paid job” so therefore is entitled to benefits no?

He would have a job. The fact that he’s not earning any money is irrelevant. Plenty of self-employed people lose money every year but it’s not up to the state to subsidise their business. They could get or look for a job as an employee if they wanted to earn money immediately.

The fact that he’s not earning any money is irrelevant.

No it isn’t. He’s entitled to various means tested benefits. Maybe not JSA though.

Plenty of self-employed people lose money every year but it’s not up to the state to subsidise their business.

Yes it is . Or at least, that’s what they currently do via the medium of Working Tax Credits. Pretty sure that self employed people are able to claim on roughly the same basis as everyone else? His eligibility is dependent on last years situation though, so thinking about it WTC might not be relevant until 2013. Certainly worth ringing up though. Especially as he can do it in the middle of the day and not have to spend 2 hours on hold 😉

druidh – Member

chewkw – different issue. IIRC, that was when Monty was killing and butchering his own animals. If the otehr guy had got involved, there would have been all sorts of food & hygiene rules involved.

Probably Monty was butchering but I cannot remember the exact detail now as I was rather surprised at what the trainer said.

Well, the OP has come up with an interesting question … hmmmm …

🙂

Sorry – as the comment was obviously about JSA, my response was obviously about JSA too.

druid – sadly the benefits people make no distinction between working for good causes and working for self-gain. The claimants availability to do paid work is the test they apply.

csb – if you are working, unpaid, for charity and then claiming JSA, isn’t that just the taxpayer subsidizing that charity by another means?

The fact that he’s not earning any money is irrelevant.
No it isn’t. He’s entitled to various means tested benefits. Maybe not JSA though.

you have taken this out of context as the whole thread became about signing on* rather than means tested benefits – you dont need to sign on to get means tested benefits

*The situation is confused because the OP says “income support” which is the name of one of the benefits from signing on [ JSA, ESA or IS] and someone gives him advice on how to do this. I assume,now, the OP means any benefit rather than a specific one

You are correct they can apply for a number of means tested benefits depending on their circumstances/income. Tax credits, Housing benefit, Council tax etc based on earned income currently.
IIRC you can claim exceptional change of circumstances for tax credits

sadly the benefits people make no distinction between working for good causes and or working for self-gain.

FWIW you can do up to 16 hours unpaid voluntary work per week and more if they have placed you on work experience type programme
The 16 hours per week must be with a registered charity so actually they do care.
The link says you can do FT but you will doing very well [it will be very rare indeed they allow this – I dont know of any except for disabled people where it is considered therapeutic]] if the JC+ lets you do FT hours and still claim you are actively seeking as they expect you to spend 2-4 hours per day seeking work
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Gettinginvolvedinyourcommunity/Volunteering/DG_064299
Not many of you use/have actual experience of the system do you 🙄