Chapel Gate is to be closed at the Edale end for 6 months from Monday next, 14th January, until 7th June for drainage repairs. There is a Derbyshire CC notice to that effect on the 5 bar gate.

This is for all traffic so the only option will be the bridleway along Rushup Edge towards Mam Nick.

Six months seem a long time for a fortnight’s work.

Six months seem a long time for a fortnight’s work.

Council in’it, ratio of workers to watchers of 1:5 seems to be the norm

Is it broken again after the resurface a while back? Not been up there for ages

Yeah, six weeks or so of legal 4×4 and motorbike use and it’s already getting torn apart. Which suggests that the original repairs aren’t up to a combination of vehicular use and heavy rain.

I suspect that the reality is that the Peak Park has closed the thing notionally for repairs but also so it might still be vaguely in one piece by the time they pass a permanent TRO banning motorised vehicles from the route.

Nice to see too that 4x4s have been thoughtfully bypassing the big bedrock steps on the Roych again and creating a whopping great erosion scar in the process.

The initial repair was not up to much. I rode up it during one of the few dry spells in the summer of 2011 and there were already big cracks in the new surface and dinner-plate sized pieces that you could move with your foot.

Looking at its situation, the steepness of the hillside etc, there will never be a permanent repair short of tarmacking the bugger over and ruining it for mountain bikes.

I’m amazed any council still has the money to spunk on making everything as gentrified as possible. and generally doing things that don’t need doing.

Looking at its situation, the steepness of the hillside etc, there will never be a permanent repair short of tarmacking the bugger over and ruining it for mountain bikes.

It was tarmacked at one point. The remains hung around for a while as interesting, disintegrating raised ribbons before finally getting ripped apart and become an entertaining alpine boulder field…

Looking at its situation, the steepness of the hillside etc, there will never be a permanent repair short of tarmacking the bugger over and ruining it for mountain bikes.

Err, it used to be tarmaced.
The whole thing basically went the way of the Broken Road. Up until a few years ago, you could still see the ridges of broken tarmac, it was in a far worse state than it is now. 4ft deep ruts, broken boulders of tarmac everywhere. Lethal descent.

The recent repairs actually made it a reasonable climb (if a fairly crap descent).

The generally rubbish weather this year won’t have helped things either.

This isn’t for the previously repaired section, it’s from the bottom of the hill to the Edale road gate. There’s no proper drainage so the rain is pouring off the fields, down the lane and out onto the tarmac along with a ton of debris.

Not vehicle related. It was DCC tarmacing the route in 1991 and destroying the naturally draining surface that has caused all the damage since. Not helped by not a stroke of maintenance work from then to 2010.

Great so to get to rushup now have to go through that bog at the top….
The errosion caused in the last 6 weeks by motorised vehicles is very noticable, but as mentioned in another thread the walkers go up the ridge/ path to the side.
Has the climb upto hollins cross got better yet? Not been up there since it started raining (may’ish?)

It wasn’t that lethal, a couple of the seriously good riders that I know used to follow the tarmac ribbon bunnyhopping from section to section at a fair old clip, I just used to mince down the holes or ride to one side of it!

Has the climb upto hollins cross got better yet? Not been up there since it started raining (may’ish?)

Which one do you mean? The one from Mam Nick, up the flank of Mam Tor then down to Hollins Cross is rideable in a slightly sludgy way. The direct climb up from near Edale is a series of muddy trenches, awkward going down and pretty hard to climb, as in bits of it are unrideable going up. It’s a mess. Not ridden the other track down towards the Jaggers end of things, but I’m guessing it’ll be messy in parts. The bridleway down towards Castleton is fine to start with but the lower bit before the rocky narrow walled section is a quagmire.

What about the cyclist who wont ride down the Rushup edge track over all the rocks and hug the grass by the wall 15 years ago there was no track there when it clearly says stay in gulley. I would not be so keen to point the finger. In till you can great your own house in order.Chapel Gate was best just left alone.Hay Ho.

What about the cyclist who wont ride down the Rushup edge track over all the rocks and hug the grass by the wall 15 years ago there was no track there when it clearly says stay in gulley. I would not be so keen to point the finger. In till you can great your own house in order.Chapel Gate was best just left alone.Hay Ho.

In English?

That track by the side has been there decades. It’s more used by walkers that I can see. Every time I go along there, there’s always groups of walkers using it. One or two cyclists yes (usually going uphill where that track is by far the easier riding option). But it’s been that way for decades. Unlike the Chapel Gate and Roych tracks which get totally trashed after a year or so of 4×4 use. Admittedly it’s been massively exacerbated by the rubbish weather this year but still.

In spite of the above, I’ll just add that I’m not actually in favour of banning 4x4s or motorbikes. I just think they need very careful management both in terms of where/when they’re allowed to go there and in terms of the track maintainance. Problem is that they’ve been banned from so many areas that the few places they can go get very heavily used.

english version was riders ride round stuff and cause erosion as well.

Many walkers describe us in exactly the same way we describe motorise users etc

BadlyWiredDog – Member
Yeah, six weeks or so of legal 4×4 and motorbike use and it’s already getting torn apart. Which suggests that the original repairs aren’t up to a combination of vehicular use and heavy rain.

I suspect that the reality is that the Peak Park has closed the thing notionally for repairs but also so it might still be vaguely in one piece by the time they pass a permanent TRO banning motorised vehicles from the route.

Nice to see too that 4x4s have been thoughtfully bypassing the big bedrock steps on the Roych again and creating a whopping great erosion scar in the process.

done exactly the same on the derbyshire bridge up buxton, last sunday i went up and there were 9 (i counted all were big 4×4) tearing up the rocky track, they then decided to do some form of off roading to the side and created 2 mahoooooooooooooooooooosive tyre tread tracks in the process making it look truly horrible (and its also passes over a footpath to get to a style)…..as i flew past them on the way down, i gave them the **** sign, as i turned around to look in the vehicles they were mostly old (60+) guys!

they have purposely destroyed a perfectly intact piece of grass to give them selves some form of extra challenge (although what the challenge was im not sure)….

really annoying as when i got back around the bloody park ranger was there in his 4×4, but clearly had missed them…..

they had absolutly no regard for the surface of it at all, just interested in how they could get there kicks (it basically looked like that pic of chapel gate from the other thread t’other day)…

as far as i know the derbyshire bridge isnt even useable by the 4×4 or any motorised vehicles, so why on earth they dont just gate it off is beyond me, if rangers need to access it then put a mahoosive chain on the gate, they really have chewed up and eroded perfectly normal bits of grass for no reason…the tits

tossa’s

A bit like we build stuff in woodlands then ?

not at all junkyard, they just had a clear disregard for the land itself, and anyone that uses it…a lovely bit of grass thats no doubt been there for 1000’s of years, and without any regard whatsoever have just decided to chew it up for a bit fun…

the fun bit i thought for them would be being on the rocky track? but no for some reason that wasnt enough, hence the need to destroy an intact piece of grass for some aparent reason 🙁

ps, ive absolutly no problem with them using tracks like derbyshire bridge (the rocky sections etc), but its totally made me think differently see first hand what they did last week to the grass area, just a total disregard for nature and totally pointless in my eyes

its not really the same comparing a bicycle to a almost 1 tonne 4×4 and 9 of them at that!

I am not sticking up for them I just find attitudes to be inconsistent

We defend cheeky use, ignoring landlords requests, building jumps and generally ignoring the law -whilst others accuse us of vandalism, erosion and of not respecting the countryside – there a thread on .

I see it as something humans do and we should perhaps concentrate our efforts in making our community responsible rather than moaning at folk doing what we do albeit with engines.
EDIT:for your PS
Your right we need to compare those 9 to the thousand of MTB – good point 😉

Walkers say we do more damage than horses or them – it would be daft to argue the motorised vehicles dont do more damage than a bike or at least do the damage quicker

i dont build, nor have i ever done (wouldnt know where to start), i ride cheeky (although i dont at weekends, unless really early/late)

does that make me any better? probably not but at least i have the courtesy to not make it worse for myself/others, i also wont do areas in certain shit weather, hence why ive done a totally different route the last few weekends

as i said, im all for them using areas that dont cause masses of erosion, no matter what you say 9 massive 4×4’s cause a million times more erosion in one go than i would in a year….

but again doesnt make me any better maybe, but seeing first hand the destruction and total lack of regard for nature/countryside made me angry, you arent just talking about a few little tyres marks, these literally made 2 tracks about 500metres long about the height of the 4×4 tyres…..

except the damage is on a public right of way and normally woodland stuff is built on land that is not a publc right ow way.

One day we’ll realise the rights of way should be a place to get away from motors, a special place,

C

4ft deep ruts, broken boulders of tarmac everywhere. ****’ awesome descent.

FTFY… 😀

Used to love coming down Chapel Gate. One of the few legal descents in the Peaks worthy of a big bike, and also quiet enough that you could hit it proper quick – the islands of tarmac were fun too. Agree something needed doing though, as virtually nobody, walker, biker, MX or 4×4 used the track itself, which was weird as it was actually far easier and more controllable than riding on the nasty greasy mess to the side of it!

I did the Roych the other week – caught up with a bunch of MXers – again only 2 of them rode the steps, and even they faffed and fannied and minced it. All that suspension, all that engine power and they can’t hit an easy drop (hell you can roll it if you get the line right). I’d bumped into Simon1975 off here, and he made rather a neater job of it on his rigid fixie!

I agree with Crazy Legs that I’m not inherently against MXers or 4x4s – they’re just the most obvious symptoms of general minceing because they can do so much damage, so easily. Walkers and bikers are equally as bad – you only have to look at the chicken lines on the Beast, or the mess that is the Roman Road. Is it really so difficult to ride or walk through a puddle or over a rock? Surely as a mountainbiker, the whole point of riding in the Peaks is to go and batter through loads of big rocks? If you aren’t used to rocks, or are just a newbie, then you ain’t going to get better at them by avoiding them!

EDIT:for your PS
Your right we need to compare those 9 to the thousand of MTB – good point

wrong : the section in question these morons chewed up is on the side of the track – so a total of 0 mtber’s would have caused more damage as they simply would not need to go on it, so in this instance mtb’ers/walker/horses simply are’nt to blame, the 4×4’s chose to chew up for reasons unknown and are 100% to blame

I disagree i have seen loads of cyclists riding down that track over the years.As i once said to aload you are missing all the fun by staying up there.All i got was mutterings.Just the same by Hope Cross people would not ride up the rocky track or down near to gate up the Roman Road from Hope.So the ground got worn away and the farmer fenced that bit off.Not saying its just cyclist,walkers too.But talking to the farmer one day few years back thats who he notices cyclists.Always seems to be alot of pressure on that area of the Peaks.

no matter what you say 9 massive 4×4’s cause a million times more erosion in one go than i would in a year..

I never said that and I accepted they do more damage.
I meant in general as in the damage done in woods by MTB where no vehicles go etc
Wonders if there are millions more of us riding irresponsibly- dont know for sure.

the section in question these morons chewed up is on the side of the track – so a total of 0 mtber’s would have caused more damage as they simply would not need to go on it, so in this instance mtb’ers/walker/horses simply are’nt to blame, the 4×4’s chose to chew up for reasons unknown and are 100% to blame

I was speaking more generally re damage/erosion.

If you cannot see any parallels between what our community does- would you like to address the “morons” in the woods causing damages or morons riding footpaths and going round mud sections or just address these morons?

If you cannot see the common theme then I cannot help

“A Special Place”!!!!!!!!!!!.So how do you get to this special place you use a motor???.I am sure all the roads you use to get there were special places before they built the roads.Hmmm.

Junkyard – Member
no matter what you say 9 massive 4×4’s cause a million times more erosion in one go than i would in a year..

I never said that and I accepted they do more damage.
I meant in general as in the damage done in woods by MTB where no vehicles go etc
Wonders if there are millions more of us riding irresponsibly- dont know for sure.
the section in question these morons chewed up is on the side of the track – so a total of 0 mtber’s would have caused more damage as they simply would not need to go on it, so in this instance mtb’ers/walker/horses simply are’nt to blame, the 4×4’s chose to chew up for reasons unknown and are 100% to blame
I was speaking more generally re damage/erosion.

If you cannot see any parallels between what our community does- would you like to address the “morons” in the woods causing damages or morons riding footpaths and going round mud sections or just address these morons?

If you cannot see the common theme then I cannot help

the thing is junkyard, i agree, i am a hypocrite in many ways i can see that, however, watching them first hand destroy out of choice that land last sunday made me so angry on the day, if i’d have seen 9 mtber’s on it and chew it up id still be saying the same (although it wouldnt do that amount of damage, same point though!)

im not condoning any cheeky – but my mode of transport isnt going to cause the same sort of damage as a 4×4 (let alone 9), so therefore if they are doing the most damage they should be more responsible, and try to keep damage/erosion to a minimum – which clearly from what i saw they werent – they werent building a few ‘cheeky’ jumps in woods as you put it, they were openly destroying beautiful countryside land, i cant say as ive ever seen a mtb’er actively openly doing that on a sunday afternoon

its not about who’s right or wrong, or who shoud ride where etc, its about trying to keep the countryside nice and how it should be, not actively destroying it with 9 4×4’s on a filthy muddy sunday afternoon

Keep the countryside nice?? What, like in that quaint little watercolour on the front of that box of chocolates?

It’s the countryside, it’s been muddy, wet, rutted, and difficult to traverse since humans have been on the planet. Only these days, the vast majority of people just want to get out of there smart clean cars, in unsuitable shoes, and “explore” the countryside without getting muddy feet or taking any risks etc.

IMO, walkers are the absolute worst at “trail widening”. No one, i mean no one, walks through a puddle on purpose, they all walk round the outside!

Personally, i think everyone has a right to the countrside, no matter what their chosen form of transport. The “damage” should be repaired, if necessary, in the busiest most trafficed places, but not else where imo.

4 x 4s bypassing the tricky bits always makes me chuckle, what with the whole ‘one life live it’, Camel trophy, sense of adventure etc…

However the mud slides either side of the rocky path descent in Stanage Plantation suggests MTB riders can be just as bad.

If you see 4x4s “off-piste” or not on vehicular rights of way them report them, simples. There is simply no need to wreck these routes for the hell of it and there is a trickle down effect from this behaviour. Either other 4×4 drivers think it’s acceptable or other user groups start to think they can do it too. In the end, everyone hates everyone else and the whole thing turns to sh!t.

Motor vehicle users are being pushed onto fewer and fewer routes so it’s pretty obvious that wear will increase. The authorities seem to want that to happen as an excuse to restrict further and avoid maintaining routes. I have noticed a rising tide of disapproval where I ride. Walkers hate everyone and horse riders think motors are too noisy and cycles are too quiet. I also feel that we should support the responsible motorists, as I am sure that attention will turn to us if they are banned and we won’t get away with the stuff that happens now.

Proper maintenance of the right of way is what is needed not a load of internet arguing

that, and a dollop of common sense podge. I know of a big group that, despite advice/suggestions, went up over Cut Gate at the weekend.

Apparently it was a ‘boggy mess’ and not fit to ride.

If we as mountain bikers don’t take responsibility for staying off the fragile trails in bad weather, who are we to criticise others?

Saying that, the powers that be can’t seem to make their minds up over just who is allowed on chapel gate.

Proper maintenance of the right of way is what is needed

Sadly proper maintance generally means flattening it and shoving down a top dressing every 5 years..

Went up Chapel Gate on Sunday (only stopped once, quite pleased!) 4 MX riders came past at a fair pace, when they got to the steeper bit in the middle they were really revving the engines. When I got there they had made quite a mess.

Common sense is the key, we ride footpaths we ride bridleways. I work on the basis of suitability not legality (if thats the word)

The MX chaps were there because they could be, you could argue they shouldn’t have been there because the trail was unsuitable at the time.

I there will be no simple answer.. if they get banned are we next??

“First they came for the MXers….”

Exactly, that isn’t proper maintenance is it?

Plus there are a lot of cyclists who ride inappropriate as well as motorbikes who use a similar excuse to cyclists that they will use anywhere that has a suitable surface.

In reply to pook, I believe there is at least one member of the mountain rescue team pushing for seasonal access laws to be passed on mountain bikers, despite the majority of their call outs being for walkers

anything with an engine is going to cause 1000000x more damage than a walker/mtber/horse rider

common sense tells you that revving the guts of a engine to gain traction is going to cause damage in the shit weather we’ve had…

therefore if anyone should get banned it should be motorised vehicles, if they want to come for mtb’ers next so be it, but i doubt mtber’s do much more damage than a group of ramblers…

a group of 10 4×4 = amazing amount of damage, a group of 10 mx’ers = amazing amount of damager, a group of 10x mtber’s = some damage, a group of 10x horseriders = some damage, a group of 10x walkers/ramblers = some damage

ps . especially as most mtb’ers are fat middle aged men who get off and push when traction is non existent (ie, when the 4×4’s/mx’ers are revving they cause massive amounts of damage instantly, whereas mtber’s simply get off and push = no erosion 😉 )

Seeing as users can’t be trusted not to use places like Chapel Gate when the conditions make it unsuitable, then the only way to deal with the problem is treat them like the unruly children they are and outright ban them.

There are of course plenty of MTBers, walkers and horsists who also use paths when conditions should dictate otherwise. They will argue that relatively their damage is less, therefore it’s ok 🙄

podge – yep. I could introduce you to him as well…

The TRF is the main body representing motorcycle trail riders and they challenged the illegal closure of Chapel Gate in the High Court. They don’t and can’t represent all motorcyclists but they have put out an instruction to their members to exercise voluntary restraint and keep away from Chapel Gate until the weather improves.

Unfortunately, many may never ride it again as the closure from Monday will probably coincide with the Peak Park closing it permanently at their next meeting on the 25th January. The TRF and allied 4×4 groups are planning a massive protest at that meeting with riders and drivers coming from all over the country to show their displeasure. Probably won’t make any difference as the Peak Park have already decided to close it and are just going through the legal motions now.

Us next. I used to trail ride up to about 5 years ago when the hassle from walkers and horse riders took all the enjoyment out of it. I’m no race star, just an ordinary bloke who loves the outdoors and I rode to the TRF’s code of conduct. The hassle I now get on my mtb is worse than it was on a motorcycle so look out for a cheap Marin on eBay soon.

It really saddens me but I’m not yet miserable enough to buy a rucksack and a bobble hat and spoil someone else’s day…….

Us next. I used to trail ride up to about 5 years ago when the hassle from walkers and horse riders took all the enjoyment out of it. I’m no race star, just an ordinary bloke who loves the outdoors and I rode to the TRF’s code of conduct. The hassle I now get on my mtb is worse than it was on a motorcycle so look out for a cheap Marin on eBay soon.

Honestly? I ride in the Peak all the time and I have never had ‘hassle’ from anyone. What on earth are you doing? And why do you think ‘us next’? It’s always bemused me along within the ‘first they came for the MXers’ BS. Because of course rights of way legislation operates along the same lines as a genocidal totalitarian state?

Look at it this way, the PDNPA is actually finding it incredibly time consuming and complicated to close a handfull of tracks to motorised vehicles let alone ban whole user groups outright. And while I’m not a fan of 4x4s, that’s how it should be.

I’m always amused that STWers seem mostly in favour of archaic laws that allow motorised vehicles to rip apart utterly unsuitable green lanes, but oppose the same system when it says we can’t ride footpaths. It’s quite at odds with the black and white thinking norm on here, you know, if you’ve ever left a tyre track, you have no right complain about anyone else causing erosion regardless of the magnitude, which is ridiculous. Like saying that if you’ve ever exceeded the speed limit you have no right to complain about dangerous driving.