hora – Member
…However I think its safe to say that all people entering such roads know that it (and other similar roads) are expected to be respected first and dangerous in many ways (be it gradient, weather/conditions and you need to be concentrating more nevermind other drivers)….

There are also children using country roads. It's how they get from place to place.

Northwind, you need to copy and paste the whole post, not take it out of context. But good contribution none the less! 🙄

Oh dear – one or two people seem to have trouble reading.

The scenario I described where someone crashed following us we had gone over 60 mph at points duri8ng the ride. However on the stretch where the crash occurred we were at around 50 mph.
Clearly stated in my post but ignored. So the crash occurred at well under the speed limit and a speed that was quite reasonable for the stretch of road. Unfortunatly the guy who crashed had such poor skills that he couldn't ride safely even at a moderate speed. focussing on speed will not stop such accidents.

Oh dear – one or two people seem to have trouble reading.

Yeah.. you for starters 🙂

TJ you said he was going to fast for his skills, so how would him slowing down not help?

I know what you are trying to say, that more skills are needed – that is absolutely true and obvious. But reduced speeds are also an important part of that.

The problem is that people base their judgements on experiences. So many people will tend to think that they are fine when they are in fact taking risks. They will only learn the hard way, when they do have a crash. By which point it could be too late.

Do you see what I am getting at? It's about psychology, both of the individual and of society. Many motorcyclists and drivers think that they can drive as fast as they like because they are great drivers/riders. But until you meet an obstacle round a blind bend you won't realise how much of a risk you are taking. This is the same for drivers and riders.

See that show Britain's Worst Driver for examples of what I am talking about.

Society comes into it because it's deemed acceptable by the riding and driving community to speed and mess about on roads. And I must say, all the evidence points to motorcyclists being worse than drivers on the whole in this respect…

I ride a motorbike, enjoy doing it and, having put in the effort, I ride to a reasonable standard. I mostly use the bike for commuting (in all weathers) which helps to improve/maintain skills.

I like making progress on twisty roads, but get most satisfaction from doing it smoothly and well rather than screaming down straights at high speed and over-taking where I can't see ahead. I don't ride a sports bike because I don't see the point on typical UK roads -A dual-sport/large 'supermoto' style bike makes a lot more sense and point-to-point (without going stupid on straight roads)on bumpy, winding roads are at least as effective as bikes with twice the amount of power, especially when wet.

A lot of people have extremely powerful machines (mainly for bragging rights?), but don't do that much riding which, in my view, is not a good combination.

Some bikers do seem happy to overtake and corner with little visibility and pass between oncoming cars at speed, but to me it seems unnecessary.

Had I ridden a motorbike 10 years ago I possibly could have been a liability, but experience, age and responsibility have made a difference (it applies equally to mtb…).

The Cat & Fiddle is a great road, but a twisting mountain road needs to be travelled with care.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

On a good day 'bikers' roads are hellish places to be. Too many Rossi wannabees riding like total tools.

LHS "Northwind, you need to copy and paste the whole post, not take it out of context. But good contribution none the less! "

Heh, that old ruse? "You've caught me saying something stupid! Quick, claim it's out of context". That's the first post in full. The second post in full is pretty incoherent but doesn't change the statements you've made one bit.

You're obviously just up for an argument so best to just move on. 🙄

Thanks for not replying to my request for help with countersteering, I tried it on the way home and sped off through a hedge in the wrong direction and am now typing from a hospital bed.

this post was uploaded via ****tphone

sorry AA

countersteering – you already do it withut thinking.

To turn left you push the left end of the bar away from you. This does two things -1) it moves the bikes contact patch to the right causing it to topple to the left. 2) by gyroscopic precession the twist of the wheel to the right makes it lean to the left.

so by turning the bars to the right you initiate a lean to the left. Its the lean that makes the bike corner – it generates camber thrust ( the thing that makes a rolled cone go round in circles)

Once the turn is initiated the steering returns to the straight ahead position. to return to straight you do the opposite – so to strighten up from this left turn you steer left ( pushing the right bar) and the bike stands up and goes straight on.

Counter steering is how all motorcycles work. What people generally mean is to do this more consciously – with a firm hard shove on the bar – it makes the bike drop into the turn more quickly.

Someone once tried to persuade our Physics class in 6th form college that you had to turn the bars the opposite way you wanted to steer first, on a pushbike. We laughed at him… It is actually possible to turn a pushbike without doing this, but if you want to turn fast it does actually help if you whip it 6" the other way first…

Went passed a crashed biker this morning on my ride to work. Looked bad as he was in a neck brace, with a back board going into the back of an ambulance. Take care