Carbon capture project cancelled

And here’s the point, all energy production is going to create some form of pollution or other or have some knock on effect.
Wind turbines are both ugly and noisy.
😀

Where will you get the fuel from? – known sources will be used up in a few decades.

I’d like asource for that. Granted sources of Uranium might get used up but then again, that’s not the only way fission can be achieved is it.

What will you do with the waste?

Long term underground storage.

How will you get the control?

Not sure what you mean by this, control of what.

are you going to share nuclear tech with the world?

I’d say yes, along similar lines that we currently do.

How will you counter the terrorist threat?

What threat do you mean? If you mean the proliferation of fissile material for bomb making then Thorium would be a good bet as it can’t be used to make a bomb. If you mean something else then please be more specific about it.

How will you prevent radioactive contamination of the environment?

The same way that we currently do and depsite all the hysteria we are actually pretty good at it, even with things like medical waste.

There you go, there’s some answers for you. Oh if you could lay off the False Dichotomys like

Its the first bit that pro nuclear people will not accept. We need to reduce energy consumption.

that would be great.

Wind turbines are both ugly and noisy.

I disagree on the first part, and the noisy part applies to all types of power generation.

Its the first bit that pro nuclear people will not accept. We need to reduce energy consumption.

There’s a certain irony here. TJ thinks he’s helping by buying less efficient older technology, he isn’t. More modern appliances are more efficient in their energy usage and should be reducing consumption, but lifestyle (less people per househould) means overall consumption is increasing and accessibility to appliances has become easier, they’re cheaper.

The electrification of energy is coming. If we were to get the UK carbon generated down to where it should be, we’d need to triple the electricity production – and your mix can’t do that.

I don’t know what you mean by this… But one thing which no one in this country talks about, is combined heat and power (CHP). Personally, I believe CHP plants are the way forward, whether they are coal, gas, biomass, or waste. Take the 60-80% waste heat and use it in industry or to heat homes. The days of massive, centralised power production should be numbered in this country, but it needs a cultural shift (NIMBY-ism) to achieve it.

We need to move away from fossil fuels now – they are finite and damaging

While there is still 200+ years of hydrocarbons to burn, we will not move away from them. Thermal plants are essential for maintaining stable electricity grids as their response times to peak load are not matched by anything else of similar capacity. Pumped storage is the only faster response, but is limited in capacity (in this country anyway…).

gonefishin – Member

“Where will you get the fuel from? – known sources will be used up in a few decades.”

I’d like asource for that. Granted sources of Uranium might get used up but then again, that’s not the only way fission can be achieved is it.

Generally accepted – look to links above – we have 100 yrs left max at current consumption rates – if we have a massive expansion it would be viable to get more as the price rises but still it would be decades of usable uranium left. To go nuclear as the main source of energy would require 100x as many reactors as we have.

As for other methods of fission only failed experiments so far.

“What will you do with the waste?”

Long term underground storage.

Hide it in the ground and pretend it doesn’t exist? need a better answer than that please

“How will you get the control?”

Not sure what you mean by this, control of what.

Nukes cannot be turned on and off as energy consumption alters

“are you going to share nuclear tech with the world?”

I’d say yes, along similar lines that we currently do.

so Iraq? Korea? Zimbabwe? Syria? Lebanon? we are going to give them nuclear reactors? or is energy only going to be for the countries we consider deserve it. At the moment we do not share

How will you counter the terrorist threat?

What threat do you mean? If you mean the proliferation of fissile material for bomb making then Thorium would be a good bet as it can’t be used to make a bomb. If you mean something else then please be more specific about it.
thorium – you are back to arguing that an unproven and experimental tech can power the world. Yes fissile materials – 100X as many reactors worlldwide at least and reactors in unstable countries. – nice safe storage for the dangerous stuff

“How will you prevent radioactive contamination of the environment? “

The same way that we currently do and despite all the hysteria we are actually pretty good at it, even with things like medical waste.

Tens of thousands of cancers from contamination right now. Maybe hundreds of thousands

Chernobyl, Dounray. Sellafelid, three mile island, Fukoshuima. The north sea is a radioactive mess now. My we really have done a good job haven’t we

There you go, there’s some answers for you.

Really? Easily demolished – just saying you will do something does not mean you can.

Hide it in the ground and pretend it doesn’t exist? need a better answer than that please

No, that’s not what I said. Ongoing monitoring would be still have to be done along with realistic views on risk.

so Iraq? Korea? Zimbabwe? Syria? Lebanon? we are going to give them nuclear reactors? or is energy only going to be for the countries we consider deserve it. At the moment we do not share

We do share techonolgies at the moment. We don’t share it freely, there are restrictions (we don’t share bomb making tech) but we do share civilian tech.

Nukes cannot be turned on and off as energy consumption alters

No large power station, no matter what the energy source is can be turned on an off easily. That’s why we have spinning reserve and why a misture of technolgies is a good idea.

Chernobyl, Dounray. Sellafelid, three mile island, Fukoshuima

Well we’ve previously established that there is a huge degree of uncertainlty with the Chernobyl figures (and the operators there were idiots). Of the rest, I don’t know howmay peoplle have been affected by these but the current death toll at Fukoshuima is one or two and those were the result of an explosion of hydrogen, not radiation.

Thanks by the way for stopping with the false dichotomys but swapping your choice of logical fallacy from that to confirmation bias isn’t helpful. When looking at the perfomance of an industry and technology you have to consider all instances where it is used, not just cherry pick the ones that suit your proposal. If that was done with other forms of energy we wouldn’t be producing any oil and gas from the North Sea as far more people have been killed there than in all the UKs nuclear power stations.

So still no answers then 🙄

If we are not going to share nuclear techs with the world then it cannot be the global solution.

You really need to come up with better than platitudes

No, that’s not what I said. Ongoing monitoring would be still have to be done along with realistic views on risk.

Lets have a real answer please. what are you going to do with the waste?

You talk about false dichotomies – nuclear or the lights go out is one such thing.

It can never be the solution

Brute force engineering is sooo 20th Century

TJ the whole rolling eyes thing looks a bit silly when you don’t answer questions asked of you, such as what your energy bills are. You can’t have it both ways mate.
Now I’m with you and would say such a question isn’t other people’s business, but you’ve got to be a bit more aware how daft your “show me the evidence and answer my questions” rhetoric sounds when your not prepared to do it yourself, and fail to acknowledge when people do answer. You also need to realise that an answer you don’t agree with is still an answer.

TJ the whole rolling eyes thing looks a bit silly when you don’t answer questions asked of you, such as what your energy bills are. You can’t have it both ways mate.
Now I’m with you and would say such a question isn’t other people’s business, but you’ve got to be a bit more aware how daft your “show me the evidence and answer my questions” rhetoric sounds when your not prepared to do it yourself, and fail to acknowledge when people do answer. You also need to realise that an answer you don’t agree with is still an answer, and that no one person has all the answers – including you.

I do not know what my energy bills are – and I don’t really see the relevance.

I keep asking the same questions and they are avoided or answered with platitudes.

Until there are answers to these questions then its clear that nuclear cannot be solution to the energy crisis

Lets have a real answer please. The Question – what are you going to do with the waste?

His Answer

Long term underground storage and Ongoing monitoring would be still have to be done along with realistic views on risk.

Seems quite a straightforward answer to me, unless you were looking for an in depth 300 page proposal…….

Until there are answers to these questions then its clear that nuclear cannot be solution to the energy crisis

Clearly.

I do not know what my energy bills are – and I don’t really see the relevance.

Not very self aware that really

What TJ does know is that for an attic flat which if properly insulated would be heated by the people living below his energy bills are embarrassing and would demonstrate just how hypocritical he is on this thread – moaning about others not doing anything to cut their carbon emissions when his own home is greenhousing the planet.

Tall – we do not need to triple electricity production – we need to reduce energy consumption

Tidal is proven – and is low tech. Plant is being installed now

When we run out of gas and oil, how do you think we will heat houses and water and power vehicles? We electrify them – like I said. No matter what you do to reduce consumption, you need to power transport and replace gas when that goes for a burton. Another poster also said it regarding reducing consumption – it would take serious legislation, not people power, to reduce consumption to anything meaningful. But you’d still have an increasing population, transport and heting to deal with. Look at energy, not electricity!

Tidal – proven and low tech? Why on earth is there still not a single watt produced commercially by tidal if it is so easy and proven? Because it is harder than people think!

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21080-why-the-uk-buried-a-worldfirst-carboncapture-scheme.html

interesting article capt jon

Tootall – yup – low tech – its a turbine and a generator – all well known stuff and there have been generators running for the best part of ten years. sure there is still development to do and its in its early years but the tech is there and is capable of being installed in commercial sizes

Edukator – Member

What TJ does know is that for an attic flat which if properly insulated would be heated by the people living below his energy bills are embarrassing and would demonstrate just how hypocritical he is on this thread – moaning about others not doing anything to cut their carbon emissions when his own home is greenhousing the planet.

You realy do not know owt do you. Do you know what my house is like?
My attic is as well insulated as possible – I have spent much money and time in doing so. Nowt hypocritical about it.

There is a lot more to consider than the simple domestic energy usage. do you run a car?

My attic is as well insulated as possible –

I wager it’s not.
I’d put good money on your windows only having a u value of about 1,5W/m2ºC and don’t take full advantage of solar gain… And your walls not being 0,35W/m2ºC… And your roof….

As possible don – its a 130 yr old listed building in a conservation area. There are distinct limits on what I can do – only wooden sash and case windows allowed for example

There are distinct limits on what I can do – only wooden sash and case windows allowed for example

What does that mean? I was talking to some conservation architects a couple of weeks ago who might have a different opinion.
http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/thermal-windows.pdf
There are always ways to improve and the use of “possible” does weaken your argument a little bit.

don – you don’t know what you are talking about. I have the very best windows I can have legally. Very expensive wooden sash and case with heritage spec sealed unit double glazing, high quality draftproofing. Cost £2000 for one window. the very best available. Secondary double glazed as well for some of them where it could be done.

I have insulated as much as possible. Every wall and ceiling has as much insulation as it is possible to fit.

don – you don’t know what you are talking about.

You are of course right TJ, as you don’t want to learn anything and you arrogance knows no limits and ignorance is impressive, I’m out.

Don – you don’t know about my flat and what I have installed so to tell me that I have not done everything I can is just simple rubbish.

But TJ, I do know your flat and I do know that even though you’ve been fleeced on 2k worth of double glazing to the highest quality it only has a u value of somewhere in the region of 1,5W/m2ºC (Pilkington k glass and argon fill etc in 16mm gap, low emissivity, blah, blah blah) which could be improved with triple glazing, which even then, while expensive will only give you 0,8W/m2ºC and can be improved as glass alone is a compromise and not the best solution. Tell me how you prevent heat loss at night? But of course you are the all knowing font of knowledge who refuses to learn or accept that others might know more than you. As I said before, I’m out.

How do you know my flat don – you ever been here? You do not know what I can and cannot fit to the building. Have you any idea of what the listed buildings regs mean?

For example – the triple glazing you suggest I am not allowed to fit it. I can only have traditional wooden sash windows. The windows I have fitted are the best performing it is legal to fit.

You do not know my flat, you do not know what I have fitted to it, you do not know the regulations that I have to work with.

But no – you do apparently know that I could do more despite the fact that in 20 years living here I have done as much as is possible to improve its thermal performance

I know you’re windows have a u value of around 1,5W/m2ºC, don’t I? I don’t know where your TV is, but I do know that you can improve your insulation and you’re not doing everything possible to insulate your attic, are you?

How do you know I can do more? You don’t know what the building is like, you don’t know what the regulations state, you don’t know what I have fitted.

all well known stuff and there have been generators running for the best part of ten years. sure there is still development to do and its in its early years but the tech is there and is capable of being installed in commercial sizes

generators running for 10 years (experinmentally) and yet it is in its early years?

TJ – I’d love to see wave power working, but it isn’t. There isn’t a commercial watt produced. You are hard over on it, yet the industry seems to struggle with that commercial step up.

You have some blind spot over the electrification of energy. If we increase power generation on the grid we need better, low-carbon generation. Building more coal fired stations is lunacy.

You’ve told me that you have double glazing, very simply this can be improved upon, it might be a question of money (think1,5W/m2ºC to 0,8w/m2ºC is a realistic improvement). I don’t know your specific building but often the conservation rules are designed to respect the look of the building which means a triple glazed window could be fitted if it doesn’t change the aspect and even then you could go further with respect to solar heat gain. What’s the iron content of the glass used and how much light are you losing because of it? Are you reducing solar heat gain in the summer or maximizing it in the winter? It can’t do both. Remember glass is a compromise material for windows. Conservation rules can be challenges and changed, the laws might say no window shutters when the reality is no window shutters with external boxes, an internal box might well be acceptable as is often the case with shops.
Far from not knowing what I’m talking about, I actually know a significant amount and would be grateful if you apologise for…

TandemJeremy – Member

don – you don’t know what you are talking about.
😉

Don – what bit of

You don’t know what the building is like, you don’t know what the regulations state, you don’t know what I have fitted.

You do not know what you are talking about here as you have amply demonstrated. You might know about insulation products but you know nothing about my house, what I have done to it,and what is possible to do to it.

I AM NOT ALLOWED TO FIT ANYTHING BUT WOODEN SASH AND CASE WINDOWS. No triple glazing, no shutters.

Tootall – don’t confuse tidal and wave – however there are commercial operations running both wave and tidal power.

You have some blind spot over the electrification of energy. If we increase power generation on the grid we need better, low-carbon generation. Building more coal fired stations is lunacy.

No – its you that has the blind spot thinking we can increase energy usage – we cannot – we have to decrease energy usage. You also follow the false premise about nuclear – it cannot be the solution – we don’t have the fuel.

TandemJeremy – Member

Don – what bit of

You don’t know what the building is like, you don’t know what the regulations state, you don’t know what I have fitted.

You do not know what you are talking about here as you have amply demonstrated. You might know about insulation products but you know nothing about my house, what I have done to it,and what is possible to do to it.

I AM NOT ALLOWED TO FIT ANYTHING BUT WOODEN SASH AND CASE WINDOWS. No triple glazing, no shutters.
You’re simply not interested are you?

You do not know what you are talking about here as you have amply demonstrated.

And you really can’t help yourself either, can you?
I actually feel sorry for you, your attitude to learning is really quite sad. I’m not going to put up with sideswipes and insults from someone who is so ignorant hasn’t got the dignity to apologise when they err.

Don – why am I ignorant when you keep saying I should do things that I am not allowed to do

Its you that does not understand the situation here. Its a listed building in a conservation area. I am very tightly bound by what I can do.

You fail to understand my situation and get all humpty when your false assumptions are questioned

Ignorant because you only listen to what you want to and are not prepared to be taught and dismiss others without a thought.

No don – you don’t understand.

You do not know my flat
You do not understand what I am and am not allowed to do
you keep saying I should do things I am not allowed to do
You do not know what I have done.

No don – you don’t understand.

You do not know my flat
You do not understand what I am and am not allowed to do
you keep saying I should do things I am not allowed to do
You do not know what I have done.
I know you only have double glazing which tells me it is not the most sensitive level of listed buildings, otherwise you wouldn’t be permitted to use double glazing. There is nothing anywhere that says that you cannot either double or triple glaze. This type of planning law is designed to maintain the aspect and character of the building which means that you can insatll triple glazing providing you don’t change the look or character of the building.
If you do have double glazing you are using a highly polished and reflective glass which creates unacceptably flat reflections and is contrary to the conservation idea. You have it installed.
I ask you to show me where it is expressly stated that you can not use triple glazing or you can not use shutters, (shutters may or may not apply in your building) no probablies or maybes allowed.
What classification of listing does your building have?
I doubt very much that it is Cat A.

Why do you keep trying to tell me what I am and am not allowed to do – you clearly don’t know. I do.

I have fitted the only sealed unit double glazing I am allowed in listed building – its a heritage spec replica window fitted with ultra thin sealed units. Its the only double glazed window that I am permitted to fit as its specially manufactured to be to heritage standards. You clearly have never come across this type of double glazing before – It looks identical to the standard glass. One manufacturer worldwide that makes it.

Its B listed and in a conservation area.

I actually know what the building is and what I am permitted to fit. You do not. I am not allowed to fit anything but wooden sash and case window of identical profiles to original. Because of this I cannot fit triple glazing, I cannot fit shutters, I cannot fit standard sealed units

Because of this I cannot fit triple glazing, I cannot fit shutters, I cannot fit standard sealed units

Show me where it expressly states you can not fit triple glazing, you can’t, can you?
Why don’t you just answer the question, it’s simple?
As you can’t it means you are not doing everything possible.
I’ll give you a hand here.
http://www.changeworks.org.uk/uploads/83096-EnergyHeritage_online1.pdf
At no point does it say here that double or even triple glazing is prohibited or that shutters can not be re-instated in Edinburgh.
So, in response to your statement of doing everything you can in your fight to insulate you attic, the answer is you are not and you have not produced anything to demonstrate otherwise except for your typical “you don’t understand” crap.
Sorry Tandem, I would love to help you more but you simply don’t want it.