All these cats in a relatively small land area yet no-one has ever found a dead one

I suppose you know that “there are no breeding populations of big cats in the UK” for a fact

I reckon my Maths posted earlier proves that.

Even if the first ones were introduced 15 years ago that’s still 1000’s of them running around by now with people having cameras on them at all times these days there would be un-doubtable proof, and as also as pointed out above, no dead ones found.

why are the UK deer population so wary and skittish?

Because its bred in instinct to some degree.
The level of skittiness will depend on the location as well. Somewhere with no hunting and lots of human activity will result in less concerned deer.
Did a wildlife tracking course a while back. The instructor didnt consider the idea likely and bearing in mind he does do large cat tracking elsewhere in the world I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

I reckon my Maths posted earlier proves that.

Your maths proves nothing and here’s why….

The guy who told you that is giving you a crock of shit! The numbers just dont stack up. Lets say a feline of that size reaches sexual maturity by age 5. Thats over 20 generations..

They would have no natural predators, so over the course of a lifetime each female could have probably 5 or more litters of kittens that would all reach maturity.

That means if you started with just 2 cats and assumed a litter is 4 kittens (2 of which female) you would get

2 x 10^20 then double that to include the males.

Thats 400000000000000000000 of these cats running around feeding on helpless farm animals.

Let’s assume that you take the same logic as above but apply it to another escaped species which we already know to have currently established breeding populations in the UK.

Let’s say Wild Boar which reach sexual maturity at one year old and can have 10-12 offspring in each litter.

There have been breeding population in the UK since the 1990’s, well over 20 generations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_boar#Status_in_Britain

By your logic, there should be trillions of wild boar overrunning the country but instead there’re probably about 2000.

Maybe something’s been eating the extra ones?

no dead ones found.

Bodies eaten by wild boar innit.

I think the reason we’re not seeing breeding is that there would need to be a reasonable population density because they have huge territories. Also many of those that have gone into the wild have probably been neutered to reduce aggression.

There’s plenty feral cats out there, but you rarely see their bodies either.

I am convinced I saw a big cat in the Highlands once. It was in the 80s, we stopped in a layby beside a wee loch, the moon was out, and a cat the size of a small leopard walked across the road about 40 feet away. It looked tawny, but had a darker ring near the end of its tail. Many years later when we returned from Oz, I discovered that there was a puma loose around that time (its stuffed remains are in Inverness museum). It looks very like what we saw, but the tail didn’t have the ring.

I’m no expert in big cats but I saw plenty of them in my childhood in Africa. Our school was in the bush, and our holidays were spent wandering around places like the Serengeti. Most of our family friends were regularly on safari and we’d go with them as tea boys. Best was with a hunter turned game expert (Basil Reel) who was quite well known back then, and he took us right up to all sorts of game including the big cats.

What I learned from that is you can be right beside a big cat and they are invisible.

Like stated before, I am merely posting up my experience and that it felt very real along with the photographs for you to look at.

I am not looking for a debate on whether or not they are here in the UK as I believe as do my family members believe.
I questioned myself multiple times as can be heard on my expletive commentary on my film footage that I have.

It was just so surreal at the time that it opened up a few questions which can be explained just the actual animal at the time cannot be proven to be that of a big cat by myself or professional big cat experts who the beeb stated.

As a photographer and wildlife nut

Those fence posts behind the cat offer some scale. This seems to suggest that the cat is about 3/4 the length of one of the posts.

Let’s assume that you take the same logic as above but apply it to another escaped species which we already know to have currently established breeding populations in the UK.

Let’s say Wild Boar which reach sexual maturity at one year old and can have 10-12 offspring in each litter.

There have been breeding population in the UK since the 1990’s, well over 20 generations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_boar#Status_in_Britain

By your logic, there should be trillions of wild boar overrunning the country but instead there’re probably about 2000.

Maybe something’s been eating the extra ones?

I’ve seen a wild boar in the new forest. So have other people, in fact if you youtube it there are lots of videos that are very clearly wild boar roaming the UK.

People also hunt them and eat them.

Although its hard to tell from the videos, could be micro pigs… except they are clearly wild boar!

Think you just proved my point.

Think you just proved my point.

The only point that I’m trying to prove is that extrapolating a wild population of 400 Gazillion from a single breeding pair of escaped Victorian leopards is a bit silly.

Which it clearly is.

See also U.K. Wallabies.

Totally agree… but my point being there would probably be a lot. At which point their existence stops being mythical.

Although I am skeptical, this is an interestimg article

linky

Also, I have 3 kids.

That’s a breeding population right there.

QED

I am not looking for a debate on whether or not they are here in the UK as I believe as do my family members believe.

So what would make you reconsider? Or is it just an article of faith now.
There will be some big cats loose from time to time but they rarely stay unnoticed for any length of time.
If there is a serious report there are plenty of professionals more than capable of finding traces of a cat if it exists.
Problem though none of those specialists ever seem to say yes to it. Instead we have “big cat experts” with no real proven record in going to countries with big cats and being able to photograph them etc there.

why are the UK deer population so wary and skittish?

I’m going to go with several billion years of evolution.

there are plenty of professionals more than capable of finding traces of a cat if it exists.

I think these experts are probably more mythical than the cats themselves.

I’ve told the story that Ben Mee (Dartmoor Zoo) describes in his book on other threads. To summarise, he and other keepers clearly saw a puma near the zoo. They were able to id the sex and rough age. The older keepers told Mee that when the female cats in the zoo were on heat they would find big cat spoor outside the enclosures, from the cats attracted down off the moor.

The owner of Paignton Zoo admitted releasing adult cats on Dartmoor in the 70s. She didn’t say why.

I’ve spoken to a bloke based in fod who never professed to be a big cat expert but that stated if wanted he would drive up to the village and lay night vision pir sensor cameras.

I’ve even been to a big cat talk at a pub closeby to my spotting a few months after ironically enough as there had been a few in the area as me tioned previously but felt that the guy was a joke as he was a self proclaimed expert who’s never himself had the experience of seeing one.

So I walked out without showing my footage and still shots.

I only posted up pics for first time online due to another member asking, if I was full of sheet then why would I bother.
I am an avid mtber for years now with no want nor need to fool anyone into believing what I had seen.
Just posting up all info and a few pics so make of it what you will.

🙂

I think these experts are probably more mythical than the cats themselves.

There are plenty of actual experts. For example the BBC has a few people with proven records in going and finding big cats reliably.
Or the tracking instructor I met who has found plenty of evidence for big cats in countries which actually have some.

There will be cats in the wild from time to time. Might even have lasted a few years but the claim generally being made is there is a breeding population that is only spotted by self proclaimed experts with no provable background in the subject.

Tbh, I’m not entirely sure about the breeding side so wouldn’t want to speculate.

Might even have lasted a few years but the claim generally being made is there is a breeding population that is only spotted by self proclaimed experts with no provable background in the subject.

I don’t necessarily think that there is a breeding population of the biggest cats, but possibly it’s true of the smaller cats like lynx. (I know of two separate, reliable sightings of lynx in Rheola forest.)