Definitely stiffer, and notably lighter. Not sure the stiffness has made a jot of difference to my riding though.
Bike Forum
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Anybody gone back to square taper chainsets, are Hollowtech II rubbish?
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Posted 1 year ago #
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Maybe the only way old UN72's are superior is in their fit and forget nature. As far as I can see, HT2 is superior in every other way.
I got some UN26s for £5.50 each which seem to last me longer than UN72s. Cheaper and zero maintenance despite frequenct submersion scores for me as I've never noticed flex.
Posted 1 year ago # -
They didn't last as long as people seem to remember
Still got the original square taper in my 105 equipped roadbike from ca. 1989. Was still going strong the last time I had that bike out (easily many 1000's miles over its lifetime).Posted 1 year ago # -
Something that people dont remember is that the 'fit and forget cartridge bearing' BB such as Shimmy's UN72 didn't exist on the market for that long. For most of the history of the square taper BB, it had a variety of different bearing solutions, some reliable, some not, but nearly all of them required a degree of constant fettling or finesse to work with.
Even when the cartridge types appeared, I never got longer than 18 months out of them, exactly the same as Hollowtech 1, and now 2.
I wouldnt go back, though I've yet to have a bike with BB30.Posted 1 year ago # -
Even when the cartridge types appeared, I never got longer than 18 months out of them, exactly the same as Hollowtech 1, and now 2
I never used to get more than 9 months, except with a 2nd hand XTR I was given, which was adjustable and lasted me about 3 years. However I bought 4 UN26s, assuming they'd fail quicker, but in fact the first has already lasted over a year and there's still no play
Posted 1 year ago # -
Who knows what you lot do to your BB but I've had an Octalink BB in one of my bikes since 2004, never serviced and is still smooth! Been running the same bearing in an XT HT11 BB since 2007, still smooth as well!
Do people not know how to install a BB? Looking at your claimed failure rates I'd say so! that and not facing your BB shell!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Three months after going back to square taper and I'm very happy with it. Hopefully I can keep getting hold of the BBs and five bolt chainrings.
Posted 1 year ago # -
OK, so from those with experience, what's the best way of fitting a NDS square taper crank so it doesn't round off? I get tightening it to x torque, but anything else? Cause I really don't want to ruin the taper on my new RS7s...
Posted 1 year ago # -
If you are considering returning back to Sqr Taper then you clearly never suffered from them snapping! I don't understand how you could not like HTII. Fitted properly, never over tensioning the bearings with LOTS of grease and they'll last ages. Torque wrench and some grease goes a long way.
Never had spline problems using them on a DH bike.
Posted 1 year ago # -
One small issue I HAVE seen with cheaper HT2 axles is a tiny bit of galvanic corrosion forming on the end of the axle under the crankarms pinchbolt, leading to mysterious 'click, click' sounds every second revolution.
A bit of wire wool smoothed it off and cured it.
I've not had this issue with Dura-ace or XTR though..Posted 1 year ago # -
Well, my Shimano HTII BB came with the words "improved seals" on the packet.
Following the last round of the Thetford Winter Series, they've now got that slightly stiff feeling about them that bottom brackets shouldn't have. I've taken square taper through similar conditions (i.e. absurdly wet and gloopy) without any problem.
Once they finally disintegrate I might try an Acros, or even a Hope before I go back to square taper though.
EDIT:
Maybe the only way old UN72's are superior is in their fit and forget nature. As far as I can see, HT2 is superior in every other way.
Perhaps HT2 just can't cope with being immersed and square taper can?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think that the bearing design of HTII cranks is fundamentally flawed. I will never be buy one. I will be sticking with conventional cartridge bottom brackets, I have Octalink on both my bikes.
PS I am a bike luddite, I still use 8 speed so as tonot have to use a paperchain.
Posted 1 year ago # -
nicko74
My square tapered RS7s rounded off after about 10 months. I made sure they were properly tightened as well. Especially after previous cheap square tapered cranks I had did the same.
They were on my one and only bike which gets used a lot though.
Still. The chainrings lasted.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Funny..., this rounding off problem is one I've never had with any square taper crank. Too soft an alloy for the cranks?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Now, I don't want to sound pedantic (but I know I will), but can someone explain to me how on earth do you round a square taper bottom bracket (ok technically you can round a square taper by being an ham fisted moron but for the sake of the argument lets say you are not)?
Mine is still perfectly square after 4 years of use on my switch and now my meta 5.5 for what most of people will call free ride (which is just standard riding). Rode in some super rocky trails, free ride shuttle days (that include the 6 foot jumps/drops), number 00 at an enduro last sunday (with very long stages). And yet it is perfectly square.I am very confident I reach the over 40 000 m of altitude loss with it and it still doesn't have rounded or get any play. I think some people should spend more time at the LBS and less on forums...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Perhaps HT2 just can't cope with being immersed and square taper can?
that's my suspicion...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Perhaps HT2 just can't cope with being immersed and square taper can?
that's my suspicion...
Quite possibly. My GXP got a fair dunking at the first Brass Monkeys mud bath at the end of last year. I did give it a good clean when I got home, but it didnt seem to let anything in.
Posted 1 year ago # -
No idea how they round off juan.
I always do my own bike servicing.
Maybe it's the constant sludge of Pennine grit stone that does it.
Perhaps that's where I'm going wrong.
Posted 1 year ago # -
When I first got HT2 cranks the bearings died really fast. Got new bearings and same thing again. Had the BB faced (basically just a bit of paint evened out) and the next bearings lasted ages... Untill I swapped frames and they died very quickly. Had the new frame faced, and the next bearings lasted ages till the bike got stolen.
Based on my experiences I'm assuming HT 2 requires a really even BB and then it can be good (not saying it will last longer then square tapier).
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've been using HT2 on lots of different frames, never faced the shell, and have had no issues, again, I'm not complaining about the year and a half lifespan, considering the mileage.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've got HT2 on 2 bikes and square taper on the third, oh and horrible horrible Truvativ Isoflow on the other one, but it doesn't count. HT2 BBs don't seem to last as long, the last ST BB I fitted into my "retro" went in in about 1991 and came out in 2008, however many thousands of miles later. Whereas the XT BB I fitted in 2009 isn't going to see 2010 out, with oh maybe 1/10th as many miles.
The cranks are better though, and I don't consider the lifespan on a £30 BB to be too terrible if it lasts a year. Now that Octalink, that's disasterously awful.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Gonna stick my neck out...
I think Superstar have cracked the problem with ISIS BB. Mine is 18mths incl 2 winters and still smooth. It's because they have larger loose bearings instead of tiny cartriges.
And they are cheap and stiff and weight less than a Square taper eqv.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think Superstar have cracked the problem with ISIS BB
wow! Loose ? You mean seperate balls ?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Chorlton, do you fit the crank with a torque wrench and periodically check the crank bolts?
Posted 1 year ago # -
yeah it think loose bearing means "Not in a cartridge", a bit like in a Shimano hub.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Superstar ISIS BB ontop, some other brand below
Posted 1 year ago # -
Chorlton, do you fit the crank with a torque wrench and periodically check the crank bolts?
No. Not with a torque wrench.
I just did it up bastard tight. (Too tight?) With a thin smearing of grease on the bb axle. Not pro I know. I was constantly checking the crank bolts. Seeing as it was £200.
Posted 1 year ago # -
if you don't have a torque wrench the settings are:
into alloy tighten till you fart
into steel tighten till you sh1tPosted 1 year ago # -
Buzzlightyear - You want to ask for a refund there, they've got holes in them
Posted 1 year ago # -
Again Ive had the (HT2) cranks off at least every week to clean, post every ride in the winter. ... Maybe the only way old UN72's are superior is in their fit and forget nature. As far as I can see, HT2 is superior in every other way.
I'm not sure you can say that HT2 is superior in every other way when you have to remove them every week to clean! Who the f**k wants to have to do that!?
The only way I can see them (HT2 bearings) failing is due to poor maintenance, or poor instalation.
I think small bearings and poor seals was also a factor.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Chris king htII bearings here on 2 bikes and no
issues unlike superstars and acros which both failed
in 2 and 6 months respectivly.Posted 1 year ago # -
Saw this:
"Always clean and lightly grease the axle tapers or splines before fitting cranks. This contradicts advice which is often given, but anyone suggesting that grease shouldn't be used either doesn't have any mechanical understanding or has a vested interest in shortening the life of your cranks."
on http://www.highpath.net/ Cycle information BBThe bearings on Truvativ GXP are shockingly bad but
http://www.hopegb.com/page_mep_force_57.htmlPosted 1 year ago # -
XTR HT2 crankset now on its 4th bike in 5 years, wonderfully light piece of kit.
Middleburn rings replaced the Shimano ones at 1 year old, just replaced the middle ring with another Middleburn.
After replacing Shimano BB's yearly (and not much use), I put on a Hope ceramic on the 2nd bike its now on its 3rd bike. Did over 2500 miles last year.
I do though agree with the others, maintenance and installation are the key.
Posted 1 year ago # -
juan:
it's always on the non drive side for me, and apparently comes about because I stand on the pedals with my left foot back.
Allegedly, this causes the crank bolt to back off ever so slightly, which allows play in the crank/ BB interface, which in turn knacks the taper.In the past 7 years I've done it with one Octalink crank and 2 square taper cranks (ran Octalink for 2 years and ST for 5).
Posted 1 year ago # -
nicko how did you get your crank installed? The key is to tighten them as much as you can with some grease on the square tapper.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ah, see the grease thing is a big bone of contention - I've heard more people say no grease than say grease, so have always done it without grease previously. I can understand though, that if you grease the taper then you can get the bolt a fair bit tighter. But I've tried threadlock on the crank bolts previously, tightening them up when they loosen and so on, and the net result has been the same until now
Posted 1 year ago #
Topic Closed
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