I'm hoping to draw on the experience of the STW masses to aid making a decision… 456 or Soul, that's the question of the day for me.

Test rode a soul over the weekend, and thought it was fantastic. The dealer has suggested a custom buld spec for me, but it weighs in at £2100 at the moment. main components are SLX, hope hoops Pro 2 and a fox f120 RLC (i thinkthat's was it was!) fork.

I've been thinking about a 456 as my other option, and OnOne have complete bike builds for way less.

Did any of you actually try a 456 before buying? I live in oxfordshire, so treking up to rotherham isn't really on the cards, and the only other dealer is in croydon, also quite a trek.

So now, I'm in a quandrary…do I plump for a 456 based solely on rave reviews? Or mtfu and stump up the cash for the soul instead? What forks do people tend to run on their souls?

thanks, ElG

Seems odd to me that you would compare the 2 TBH.

You like the Soul and you could EASILY save a few hundred £ on the build, rather than save the money by buying a cheaper frame.

Have I been a dumbass then? Your "Seems odd to me that you would compare the 2 TBH." suggests I'm comparing apples with oranges, but I though that they were both the same type of intended usage, general XC trails. I'm not after something to huck about on. wheels barely ever leave the ground, in fact! (Something I have to work on!!!)

Is the 456 intended for heavier usage then? If I'm heading to rougher tracks, I'll be taking the heckler…

I know the 456 is some 600g heavier, plain cro-mo, iso the soul's 853 tubing… so I guess it is a little more robust, but I though that was about it.

Oh dear, I thought i had a handle on this, now it appears otherwise!

456 is £165 IIRC, Soul £450 odd?

456 is perhaps meant as a bit more of a sled. Not necessarily stronger, though that's not going to be an issue for you.

My point is that 600gm of weight difference will translate to a much nicer riding bike (not surprising at 3 x the price).

So it's like comparing a Kia to a BMW.

take the good frame and then cut back on the rest.
ditching the fox forks for a start.

however you seem in two minds as to what you will use the HT for, having stated you want/need/wish to have wheels leaving the ground at some point, but also stating that any 'rough' riding will be handled by your FS

back to the drawing board.

if you want a 'winter' HT i would suggest the 456, if you want a more refined HT, say to replace the FS…. then go with the soul.

sorry that didnt help.

Thanks for the info. I was thinking that the 456 was astonishingly cheap, but didn't realise the overall bike was that different. (OnOne website says their frames are cheaper because they license design to other manufs, too..so I was just putting difference down to that.).

I realise I've been woolly on intended usage…jumping would be more drop-offs type, not actually jumps. not good enough at coping with pain and plastercasts for the latter! Most of my riding is ridgeway type terrain. Nothing particularly taxing. heckler would be used for afan, cwm carn etc. riding the heckler locally just feels a little silly, and totally overkill!

So the answer to SOOBalias' "if you want a 'winter' HT i would suggest the 456, if you want a more refined HT, say to replace the FS…. then go with the soul." would be that I'm after something to supplement the FS for the rides that simply don't need FS.

I've settled on steel, as I'm finding alu just a little too rigid for my liking. (reading about the flexy carbon stays in the XCPro is interesting though, might be tempted in that direction…) Prefer the thin tubed look of steel, too.

I think I may follow Al's advice…I know I like the soul, so why muck about with anything else, just change away from the fox.

thanks again,

El G

How about the Kinesis Decade Virsa?

kind of meets in the middle of the other 2 frames and it's steel.

James

For the price of the Soul you could look at the Ti 456 with full XT kit. Lifetime guarantee on the frame as well.

Get the Soul frame, fit it with the kit you want rather than what dealer is suggesting and before long you'll be taking that to Afan etc making the Heckler redundant.

Thanks everyone. Will have a think, and get re-speccing the soul to apoint that works for me!

thanks again.

My two penny's worth… 456 & Soul are not really poles apart, they're both long travel steel HT's, one certified to 140mm the other intended for up to 150mm. Taking a 16" frame for example, even geometry is very similar – 0.25" in the TT and 0.5 degree in the head angle, similar chainstays, so really very close in concept, until that is you come to price…

And £300 difference is a fair old whack in anybody's book, but then as somebody else said on another thread… "strong / light / cheap – pick two…" Not sure where the 600g came from either, as going from their websites, it appears the difference is more like 1100g (not exact as on-one don't specify a size for their 2495g frame).

But… you appear to be prepared to pay a reasonable amount for your new HT, by that I mean you don't appear to be working to a really strict (lowish) budget, so why not go for the Soul? You certainly wouldn't regret it, but equally if your total budget was less than half of what it probably is, then I'm sure you'd be delighted with the 456.

Another way of looking at it is Soul with average forks & wheels or 456 with mega forks & wheels, then if after 12 months you really must lose that kilo, then sell 456 frame for 1/2 to 2/3 what you paid for it and buy a soul, transfering everything else over… or if you've fallen in love with 456, well then, happy days.

And finally (sorry for the novel) since you have a nice FS already for the big stuff, how about a 100mm travel HT, since riding on the Ridgeway, beautiful as it can be, perhaps doesn't warrant 5 to 6" of full on steel butchness…???

So a bike that is 600g lighter is much better? Is that what you are saying. If I had the money yeah I'd probably have a Soul but as it is I love my 456 and I don't worry about rocks bouncing off it etc. Seems to be a lot of snobbery when it comes to the 456 but plenty of folks like it. If you live near Edinburgh I'll let you have a go of mine(18"). Also love my Scandal with 100mm forks and as said before that kind of bike would make a nice alternative to a FS.

If it is ridgeway type stuff and the Heckler is for bigger stuff I would recommend a Scandal, 100 (ish) fork is just about perfect for that area. Way cheaper than a Soul not burly but nor are the Chilterns. Depending on which end of the Chilterns (I'm Reading end) you are I have a mid range one you could try if you wish.

£2100 with slx! how much are carbon 456s with xt?

Edit – £1800, that would do it for me

So a bike that is 600g lighter is much better? Is that what you are saying. If I had the money yeah I'd probably have a Soul but as it is I love my 456 and

the lighter bike will rude nicer, and he apparently does have the money.

I'd take a look at the normal inbreds too mate

I had a frame that was probably about 2lb lighter than the 456, didn't make it rude nicer or even ride nicer.