It’s gonna stretch more and twist more cos of the bigger range init?

Chains don’t stretch.
http://sheldonbrown.com/chains.html

Why would a bigger range cause more wear? Is it not like running a triple with 42t up front and 30 at the back?

I’m sorry, in future I will only describe the elongation of a chain due to wear as ‘Stretch’.

The number of teeth on chainring and sprocket is irrelevant because you’re chain will be set up to cope correctly with your gearing, my question is because a 1x chain will be twisted more than a 2x chain, any twisting motion can’t be good.

For instance, I would never use my biggest chainring on a 2x or 3x with the top 2 or 3 sprockets at the cassette to prevent wear. Conversely and for the same reason i wouldn’t run smallest chainring in either 2x or 3x with the bottom 2 or 3 sprockets.

A 1x system has to cover those sprockets and more with 1×11 as the cassette is bigger, does anybody have any experience of 1×11 and it’s wear rates?

my question is because a 1x chain will be twisted more than a 2x chain, any twisting motion can’t be good

That’s not a given at all, yes, perhaps if you’re really committed to avoiding any cross chained combinations then a double/triple has the potential to be better, but the chainline on a single ring is pretty good the whole time.

My first XX1 chain lasted about 800 miles, my second one is showing no discernible wear after another 400 or so.

I can say from a lot of miles on a 1×6 using 9s parts that chain wear rates seem notably lower due to better chain line, ie -3 / +2 cogs from straight. So in theory 1×11 would wear faster. But larger cogs wear the drivetrain less than small ones and -5 / +5 of an 11s is only a little more offset chain line than using all but the 4 most crossed ratios on a 2×10, so not much in it? And conditions, cleaning etc, how often you actually use those extreme ratios, all vary it more I expect.

My single ring is where my middle used to be and I used all my cassette with my middle ring.
But saying that a narrow wide ring does not allow the chain to angle towards the cassette once on the first tooth so ever so slightly shortens the distance the chain has to deal with sideways forces, as would the larger rear sprocket.

Chain wear or stretch is wear on the pins so as a narrow wide makes contact with more of the surface area of the pins effectively spreading the load so I would expect the pins to wear better.
Unless of course they are made of softer material in order to protect your very expensive cassettes.

It may or it may not…. does it really matter?

It may or it may not…. does it really matter?

If you ****ed off and didn’t post useless comments on threads, would that matter?

I was going to write out a post detailing my opinion and observations until I saw this:

If you ****ed off and didn’t post useless comments on threads, would that matter?

Now I don’t think I can be ****ing ****ed.

does it really matter?

Maybe. Some 11 speed cassettes are over £300

If you ****ed off and didn’t post useless comments on threads, would that matter?

It may or it may not…. does it really matter?

I agree with MBnut though, possibly for different reasons. I’d argue that a chain/cassette costing north of £220 would have to last quite a long time to even merit comparison to XT costing £50. You’re never going to rationalise it.

You either:
Can afford it and do need it and will replace as nececary.
Can’t affordt it, stick with 2×10 and replace as nececary.
Can’t affordt it, stick with 2×10 and wear it into the ground between overhauls like 90% of people do.

Or come on here and tell people their choices are stupid because you’ve thought about it.

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

I agree with MBnut though, possibly for different reasons. I’d argue that a chain/cassette costing north of £220 would have to last quite a long time to even merit comparison to XT costing £50. You’re never going to rationalise it.

You either:
Can afford it and do need it and will replace as nececary.
Can’t affordt it, stick with 2×10 and replace as nececary.
Can’t affordt it, stick with 2×10 and wear it into the ground between overhauls like 90% of people do.

Or come on here and tell people their choices are stupid because you’ve thought about it.

I kind of agree and disagree. I run 2×10 and swap between 3 chains that get cleaned after each ride. I’ve been doing that happily for 2 years and there is very little wear to anything.

Njee’s comment that he’s replacing stuff at 800 miles is very useful as it allows me to compare.

I really liked 1×11 when I rode it and think it’s the way forward for me but regardless of what I can afford, I don’t want to be replacing a drivetrain every 12-18 months when I currently only have to every 36 months and am pretty happy with 2×10.

Frequency of cleaning and lubrication is a far larger factor than chain line.

Used 1 x 11 all year, I’d say wear rate is better because most of the time I have a better chain line than my XTR 3×9. Changing chains on 1×11 is super simple too with the added rear mech lock. Had same casette on all year and on third chain. If you select the right ring up front you get very good chain casette wear as your mainly in the middle gears. Those complaining about wearing out the 42t casette ring have been running to big a ring up front. I use a 32t, started with a 34t which is fine but smaller is better for overal performance. This year included 1170km Trans Portugal, four day Stage race Poland, Enduros UK, long Mynd, Wales trail centres as well as a superb summer of dry trails. So I think the cassette had a good thrashing and theirs still I think another chains life in it. A lot of speculation above based on zero long term experience

OP- You cant even thread a Fing chain through a rear mech correctly you muppit & if your cleaning a chain after each ride you have too much time on your hands.
Pips X11 or whatever chainring lasted about 6 summer months, £80 a pop. New chain with it but the old cassette was fine.

And front mechs are what bugger chains sideways.

Maybe. Some 11 speed cassettes are over £300

no, well yes, but only if you are an idiot

And some 9 and 10 speed ones are too!

Njee’s comment that he’s replacing stuff at 800 miles is very useful as it allows me to compare.

But will vary by all sorts of factors. There was a thread about XX1 longevity and no one was having specific issue. Reckon it just pays to stay on top of chain replacement, negating the need for needless cassette purchases. For me, I replaced mine as soon as the chain hit 0.75% elongated though, although the replacement was noisy for a few rides it did quieten down.

Ha…so I posted a useless comment on a useless thread in your humble… I was actually making a point that I feel is valid.

I feel you kinda missed the target as cassette wear is the expensive consumable on the 1 x 11. Replacing the chain regularly seems obvious on such an expensive drivetrain.

Pawsey Bear – good information that and good news as I am about to go 1 x 11, thanks.

thered – life’s a funny thing, you should be careful about being so rude.

I have known a 9 speed single ring set up (on a brand new Gary Fisher bike)wear a chain to the furthest setting on a Park Tool chain checker in about 200 miles. To be fair though I didn’t measure the chain to start off with…you don’t do you!

I reckon my 10 speed double set ups do about half as many miles again on a chain as against my 9 speed triple set ups!

No idea re 11 speeds with a single ring…and I like my low climbing gears too much to ever be likely to find out!

But will vary by all sorts of factors. There was a thread about XX1 longevity and no one was having specific issue. Reckon it just pays to stay on top of chain replacement, negating the need for needless cassette purchases. For me, I replaced mine as soon as the chain hit 0.75% elongated though, although the replacement was noisy for a few rides it did quieten down.

On that basis I reckon 11s probably outlasts 10s because people actualy bother to maintain it. I know I never chaneg chains, and I know a lot of other people don’t. Seems pointless runing through several chains in a year to save a cassette that costs barely more than the chains, when on average I can get about 2000miles from a chain and cassette before the shifting reaches the point of ‘2 up one down’ even with clean cables, then bin them. Throw £180 cassetts into the mix and suddenly people are getting 3x800miles (i.e. about the same) from the cassette and likely to get a lot more again if you’re prepared to accept slower shifting and use your 0.75% chains in rotation untill they hit 1.25-1.5%.

I reckon my 10 speed double set ups do about half as many miles again on a chain as against my 9 speed triple set ups!

I think Shimano cliamed 10s drivechains should last almost 2x as long as 9s through a combination of each gear getting 10% less use and and the chains being made better in various ways, coatings, manufacturing, surface hardness etc.

No idea re 11 speeds with a single ring…and I like my low climbing gears too much to ever be likely to find out!

28/42 is a similar gear to 22/36 (assuming that’s your lowest on 2×10) – if your granny is a 24 it’s exactly the same.

The front ring has the chain on all the time

The rear sprockets should only have the chain on about 10% of the time (each)

So i speculate that front ring changing might be an idea. The chain will tend to elongate to match the most worn sprockets. So you don’t want a worn front ring elongating the chain and accelerating sprocket wear

Chain tension will be lower using a 32 at the front than say a 24, for the same ratio. Less chain tension is a good thing

Doubt if there is more wear on the cassette as most of the dudes with single chain rings seem to be walking up the hills!! Shoes are cheaper than cassettes 🙂

Well that made me chuckle

I’m still on 3×9 and trying to use the inner ring more as in the last swap roung all the wear was on the 32 ring

Njee thats a lovely low gear but how the hell does a single ring of 28t work in the high gears?

Are there any 11 speed MTB 2 chain ring set ups

Firestarter – I run a 30T front and a 40t out back on a 29er and I spin out at around 27mph.

It isn’t very often on a mtb I wanna go faster than that.

Ampthill – XTR is 1,2, or 3×11.

Are Thats why it hadn’t registered

I’m think of getting MTB gearing on a cross bike. If I buy a 105 one it would need 11 speed mtb cranks

I think the price of XTR put it beyond my price radar

Njee thats a lovely low gear but how the hell does a single ring of 28t work in the high gears?

28/10 is still quite a tall gear, or go 30 or 32, and trade off low gears for top end

I know there’s a world of difference between a real double and a triple with a bash as far as chain line is concerned, and most of the point is being able to use the whole cassette in either ring due to better chainline, eradication of duplicated gears and possibly better q factor although that benefit may be debatable on a mountain bike. A proper double will shift rings better and have a better chainline all other things being equal.

I’m running a 1×10 on a triple crank on one bike and it work well but the double gets ridden much more, possibly because it’s also my full sus.

Is the ring position changed on a ‘real’ single crank? If so, there’s a whole extra consideration when comparing any damage on chain due to deflection.

All that said, my view is that the chain is the cheap part of your drive train, but also the bit that’s going to grind abrasive crap into the rest of it as it goes round, so keeping it clean and properly lubed between rides is only sensible, and if you think it’s beyond tolerance, bin it before you wreck everything else. I’d posit that you probably do more damage to everything struggling in a harder than necessary gear before you take muck abrasion into account so probably suitable ratio choice is the most important thing. I find that my double setup of 26/38 and 11-34 is perfect for me and my riding on a mountain bike, and I prefer a clean dryish lube rather than a wet one that will become grinding paste in no time.

Chain cleaning takes me less time than a cuppa with a chain machine and a washing up brush for the cassette and jockeys, so I don’t see the problem.

I think the crux of Sheldon’ s thought was that every time we get an extra cog, the world throw up their hands and claim chains will wear out faster based on assuming all other factors have remained equal, which isn’t a sensible position. Alterations to loading from overall chainline and specific positioning of drive points and changes in chain construction materials and methods will make a huge difference. But mainly in this case, not being shoved sideways between rings is a massive win for the chain.

I’m not eager to be an early adopter but I can quite see it being the way forward when I’ve worn my stuff out.

Is the ring position changed on a ‘real’ single crank? If so, there’s a whole extra consideration when comparing any damage on chain due to deflection.

Nope, basically it’s the same as the middle ring position on a triple.

I’m not eager to be an early adopter but I can quite see it being the way forward when I’ve worn my stuff out.

That’s lucky then, with XX1 having been out for more than 2 years now, and plenty of people running 1×10 before that you’re a bit late 😉

That’s lucky then, with XX1 having been out for more than 2 years now, and plenty of people running 1×10 before that you’re a bit late

I went 1×9 about 10 years ago with one of those horrible DMR chain devices that rubbed and jammed insecently. 38t single and a 11-34, in the Peak district, including riding home up Conduit! 2 years later I had surgery on my knee, but it was do-able!

Njee thats a lovely low gear but how the hell does a single ring of 28t work in the high gears?

28/10 is still quite a tall gear, or go 30 or 32, and trade off low gears for top end

I run a 28t XX1 ring on my full suss 29er and I find I’m rarely in the 10 and 40t extremes, so I reckon the gearing is spot on for the riding I do which is mostly big hills and tight techy woodsy singletrack.

If you end up using the biggest rear sprocket a lot to climb with it will not last as it is soft aly not steel. This will wear the chain more.

All I know is that 1×11 folks I ride don’t make the steepest technical climbs up proper mountains.

PawsyBear – 32 was the ring I test rode, felt good with a 10-40 block, thanks for the real life experience.

Scruff – IIRC that was Nicky B. White spirit is your cleaning friend.

MBNut – 🙄

Vincienup – Good points, thanks.

All I know is that 1×11 folks I ride don’t make the steepest technical climbs up proper mountains.

Personally if 1×11 meant compromising on my riding I’d not do it. Confident that there’s been nothing I’ve failed to ride where a lower gear would have helped.

No Mikey it was you, stranded at top of Epic when your chain miraculously jumped out its mech cage, remember you member?

2nd what tomaso says I,ve seen it with my own eyes on the same rides 🙂