There are no ‘rights’.

There are, and they are enshrined in law. In every country on Earth, in varying degrees.

If someone beat you up and took your bike off you, you’d soon be bleating on about your rights. :lol:

I think this is the point at which someone says ‘don’t feed the troll’. :wink:

No human or animal has any ‘right’ to anything.

You have the right to say that, of course. Even if it is wrong.

My mate took the B&W Blencathra one

That was my favourite. It’s a beautiful photograph. Please pass on my compliments to your mate.

I’ve not yet quite decided on my Titanium frame build yet. That’s just thrown a spanner in the works. :x

Phwoar! That’s flippin’ gorgeous!

you know those bits where the girls (in particular) shamelessly flirt with the shop owners to get 5p off some fish or whatever? That’s you and your wife that is.

:lol:

You REALLY don’t want to know what we do to get the price of fish lowered then…

It’s really cringey – but whatever makes you happy I guess.

I’m not sure I understand what kind of image is going through your head? What do you think we do, when we ‘flirt’? Show people our underwear? Do some form or ritual dance?

if companies don’t sign up to abide by uk law their services should not be permitted.

This is basically the same line trotted out by places such as North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia etc. Do you not believe that the citizens of those nations should enjoy the same freedoms as us?

And do you think that current UK law is justifiable or even valid, given the numerous abuses of power by various authorities, many of which have been proven to be unlawful?

Totally in favour of this legislation

Wow.

Can you explain why you’re not in favour of Human Rights, specifically the Right to Privacy and Family Life?

Now this does sound creepy.

But why? If being a bit flirty can help you get a slightly better deal, or service, what’s the harm?

It’s got me a couple of free extra doughnuts recently. :wink:

“If you’ve done nothing wrong , you’ve nothing to hide”

– Joseph Goebbels ..

In the cases of the women involved in the police spies affair, the Stephen Lawrence family and many others, they were doing nothing wrong. State power was used to spy on innocent law-abiding citizens. So those Goebbels-esque pronouncements are frankly bollocks.

And it’s the way the information can be used, and by whom, that is particularly of interest:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/08/police-colluded-blacklist-construction-workers-consulting-association-union-activists

North Korea? Not yet, but it’s not impossible. North Korea wasn’t always run by tyrannical despots ruling over a surveillance society in which individual thought is being suppressed. Complacency can be a very dangerous thing.

For anyone who thinks this isn’t a problem, Nickc makes some very good points:

My browser history has The Greens, CND, Wikileaks, Medialens, Socialist Workers, links to Hamas, and other Palestinian groups, Stephen Lawrence support groups, and anti Fascist groups I’ve given money to several of them, and been on countless parades and marches. A awful lot of those groups have been infiltrated by the State, and I’m in no doubt my photo exists on any number of databases. This is another way the State can and will monitor a citizen (me) who’s done nothing illegal ever.

The Metropolitan Police were (illegally) monitoring the Lawrence family,no doubt that included phone calls to and from supporters and so on. This legislation gives this sort of activity even greater powers to be invasive.

I understand there is now going to be a public enquiry into historical infiltration and surveillance by police, of various political activists and groups. Some of the tactics included police agents actually having long term intimate relationships with several women linked to political/environmental groups.

Police Spies Out of Lives

I find this absolutely shocking, that in a so-called ‘democracy’, that the police were willing to be used in such an underhand political manner. So far, not one bit of usable evidence has surfaced which has been instrumental in bringing justice, where there was any wrong-doing. So why were the police being used in such a manner, against innocent citizens who have the legal and moral right to enjoy privacy and to not be under constant monitoring by the state? These weren’t ‘terrorists’, these were simply ordinary people who campaigned for social/political/environmental change. As was their Human right under UK and international law. This tactic of deep immersion was used solely to undermine the political process, and to destabilise activists group the state decided were ‘subversive’. There is no justifiable reason that such tactics were or are defensible or justifiable in law. These methods have even resulted in undercover agents fathering children by the women they were assigned to!

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/23/police-compensation-payout-woman-undercover-officer

To anyone who questions why we would need to worry about surveilance, I ask this:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I dont think I would expect to be firted with / hit on as the customer of any business, so I dont think it acceptable.
Likewise I wouldn’t flirt with customers of my business, totally inappropriate.

Maybe you’re just too unattractive to be hit on. ;-)

I flirt all the time when out and about; my wife thinks it’s quite amusing. Mind you she’s pretty good at it too. We find it helps us get more of what we want/better service/makes for a more pleasant experience, in a number of different types of situation. What’s wrong with a bit of flirting for God’s sake? The Human Race would have died out long ago if we never flirted, let’s face it.

As for ‘professionalism’; I always used to flirt a bit with many female customers etc, to the point of occasionally ‘hitting’ on them. Even been lucky once or twice. Only ever once had negative feedback. Must be my natural charm I suppose. :-)

Mind you it can get a bit awkward; a friend is adamant that a young woman in the local bakery shop fancies me, because I’m always flirting with the staff there. I’m a bit nervous about going in there now. :oops:

Out of interest what did you buy?

A jacket, a pair of gloves and a top. And I’ve browsed their stuff in shops. The quality isn’t proportionate to the price, in my opinion. There is better clothing on offer, and often cheaper. I can spend a similar amount on non-cycling clothing, and get a much better deal.

The Rapha brand puts me in mind of Superdry, for some reason. But I think if you’re deliberately wearing a brand to try and prove your participatory credentials, you’re trying a bit too hard anyway.

Rapha are bloody geniuses. Tapped in to the market perfectly at the perfect time to milk the MAMILs. Genius. Bloody genius.

I totally agree. I’ve bought a few Rapha bits in sales, and I have to say, even at near half-price, I’m not impressed with it. Overpriced made in China stuff. I fail to see this ‘quality’ that others rave about. There are quite a few other brands offering much better quality than Rapha, with clothing made in Europe, rather than Far Eastern cheap labour factories. If you want ‘heritage’ cycle clothing brands, then Cafe du Cycliste and Pedal ED are similar to Rapha, but offer made in Europe stuff. Similar pretentiousness, but maybe a bit less ‘mainstream’. ;-)

Personally, I’d favour Adidas over Rapha for cycling gear, because they have a far greater ‘heritage’ of making sports clothing. If I want anything ‘stylish’ to wear on the bike, I probably won’t be buying much ‘cycling’ clothing.

The reason for using primes, for me at least and I think a lot of other prime shooters, is not optical quality. It’s primarily about creativity and simplicity

Plus primes are generally faster, which is a bonus in low light. I think the difference in optical quality is minimal these days, but there are still compromises with most zooms. My 50mm f1.8 is definitely sharper wide open, than my 28-70mm zoom.

I’ve got to go and buy some lenses soon. No good talking about it. I get the feeling this is going to be bloody expensive. :oops:

An interesting question. At the moment, I’m loving my Nikkor 105mm macro, which is great for close-up work, but also very good for portraiture. The lens I use the most though is my battered old Sigma 28-70 f2.8 zoom, which is pretty good but I think it’s past it’s best as it’s getting quite rattly and suffers from the odd focusing error. Thinking about a new 24-70 f2.8; hoping the new VR version coming out will mean lots of people selling their perfectly good older ones for lower prices. Don’t really see the point of VR on such a short zoom.

DrJ – I got the latest version of the 70-200, which according to Greys is supposed to be sharper (plus has the benefit of the latest version of VR).

So far its been the best lens I’ve ever owned. Bonkers fast as well, its made me rethink where and how I shoot.

I think you can hire them, so perhaps worth a try before you buy, as they are flipping expensive.

I was thinking about getting the older 80-200 f2.8. which is a fantastic lens; tough as old boots. But VR is very useful on longer focal lengths, so thinking carefully about this one. Even a s/h VR version is really expensive.

I like to think of myself as a ‘prime’ lens person, but the reality is, that modern zooms are so good it’s silly to deliberately avoid them. I do quite a bit of work in low light in situations where it’s difficult to obtain the optimum shooting position, so fast zooms are a Godsend. I’d quite like to try a 135mm DC, as well as the 85mm f1.4. It’s nice sometimes to whack on a 50mm in very low light, as the FX sensor is just amazing in such conditions. And I really must get a proper superwide angle lens at some stage (14mm or so).

400mm

That kingfisher shot is amazing.

For the top one, instead of using dowels which are expensive, go down to your local pound/discount hardware shop, and get some broom handles. I think it’s a 24mm diameter so that size drill bit will work fine.

For even 1mm, I’d just run a plunge saw along, or use a router.

Sorry, for some reason I imagined you’d be wanting to trim a door to fit. Hence my suggestion. I don’t know why I thought that, other than that’s one of the jobs I’ve seen an electric plane used for (it didn’t turn out well).

I’be taken some fairly messed up edges of wood, chipboard, and whatever they make windowsills out of back pretty accurately with an electric plane.

I really wouldn’t have got around to the jobs with a manual plane, let alone getting around to setting it up just so.

Fair enough, but I’ve seen skilled people square off and smooth a rough piece of wood in just a few minutes. It does take a while to become that skilled though.

An electric plane is a quick way to turn material into firewood and sawdust in inexperienced hands.

:lol:

How much do you need to take off? Microns? Millimetres? Centimetres? METRES?

For even 1mm, I’d just run a plunge saw along, or use a router. If you’re ‘needing’ to plane down several mm, then you should be cutting the excess off, not planing it. The purpose of a plane is to smooth and square off material. Planes are to remove fractions of mm’s, not huge amounts.

Electric planes are nasty, dangerous and for the kind of ‘carpenters’ you find on cheapo new build sites or to rough plane large chunks of wood. They are not precision tools. Some very good advice above, about using a manual plane. If you have the patience to set up and learn how to use a manual plane, you can get much better results (and often quicker than plugging in and setting up an electric one).

Generally takes about 20 minutes using the manual before I plug in the electric one.

Sounds like you’re more interested in getting a job done quickly, rather than properly. :wink:

Festool’s prices have fallen enough that if you were considering the others you might as well buy the festool.

Yes, the equivalent Bosch and Makita saws were near enough the same price when I bought mine (kit with two guide rails). I much prefer the Festool though, and the warranty (and theft replacement!) is superb. No point in spending that much unless you are going to use it a fair bit though. Festool blades are more expensive than others, although you can use 3rd-party blades. Pretty much all the quality tradesmen I’ve encountered use some Festool stuff. I found a Makita plunge saw too ‘rattly’ after a while. I only wish I’d gone for the deal with the dust extraction system.

If its for one job… Lend one.. The cost of buying a specialist plung and rail outweighs the use…. Ask a joiner friend or hire one….

Sound advice. As for buying cheap: I’ve ‘graduated’ from cheaper ‘DIY’ tools, and the difference once you start spending a bit is significant. It can often be false economy to buy cheap tools if you’re going to do a fair amount of work with them, although there are some that are bargains. I’ve had a little Bosh green jigsaw for years, and it’s not bad at all. Cost £30 only. But often, cheap tools can’t be fixed if they go wrong, whereas the more expensive stuff often can be.

The amount i use my tools (18 hrs a day 7 days a week)

Are you an immigrant worker in Dubai or somewhere? 8O

Your investment should be proportionate to the amount of work you expect to do with the tool. If you’re just after something to do one job with, then I’d suggest it might actually be better to get a workshop to cut the pieces for you, that would save you a lot of hassle and you’d not end up with a redundant tool taking up space/ending up in landfill. For occasional use, then I suppose a cheap one would be ok, but not brilliant. Having used a number of plunge saws, I went for a Festool, and it’s significantly better in operation that equivalent Makita/Bosch/Dewalt versions I’ve tried. Expensive, but you can get good deals with rails.

Circular saws are potentially extremely dangerous, so I’d advise getting someone with experience to show you how to use one, before you delve straight in yourself. A plunge saw is a lot safer than a fixed type, for obvious reasons. You can make your own guide rails, but from experience, a dedicated rail system is much easier and more convenient to use.

Dust extraction is very important, especially if using stuff like MDF (always wear a mask). A vacuum cleaner hose attached to the dust port is the best way to help reduce dust, but circular saws produce loads of dust so be prepared for that. Splintering can be an issue, particularly with ply, so it might be worth using a sacrificial piece beneath the workpiece, to help alleviate this problem.

The ETT will be appropriate for that so how it compares to a standard cx bike is neither here nor there

I wondered if you’d specified a longer ETT than what Pact would use for a CX bike. IE, if you’re using flat bars (or similar) then you’d have a longer ETT than if using drops. Your bars look somewhere between in terms of reach. If I bought an o-t-p CX frame, I’d need to use a very long stem as they are ‘short’, which would be unsuitable.

I’m not sure what else could be achieved aesthetically

Well, plenty I’m sure! That looks quite ‘plain’ and functional. Which is fine, but I’d like something a bit ‘different’. Things like little details, braze-ons, dropouts, lugs, tube profiles etc. It might end up looking ‘gash’ to others, but as you say, beauty, eye, beholder and that.

Personally I think it looks gash

From what I’ve seen it is a bad idea

I agree with both of you. For the same reasons, pretty much. Plus packing the bike for travel is more difficult with a long seat tube sticking out. But I think it’s good to consider all sorts of ideas at this stage. Currently, I’m erring towards what’s more ‘sensible’, but I see nothing wrong with a bit of quirkyness. A custom one-piece bar and stem is an option; a very expensive one though. And I’m not convinced it wouldn’t be significantly worse than using standard easily available parts. Fun to think about though.

whose eaten all the biscuits

Sorry; I’ve just finished a whole packet of Maryland choc chip cookies. Very greedy of me I know. :oops:

If you’re going to take a position at least stick with it.

I’m quite amused with your consistent failure to understand that it’s actually MY bike I’m planning to have made, and therefore I’m allowed to make MY own decisions.

bartyp has already established to their own satisfaction that brant is incapable of designing a bike frame because he’d never run a steel works so can’t understand anything about the material or something.

For MY bike frame, I’d like to be as involved in the process as possible. Which is why I’m going to go with a builder who can accommodate that. Brant, by his own admission, can’t offer the service and product that I want. That’s fine. I can chose someone else. How you arrived at the conclusion you did, I really don’t know.

Now if you have something positive to input, I’d be interested to read it. If not, would you mind just ignoring this thread from now on? As it serves no-one to descend into petty bickering over nothing.

Thanks.

Nice. So is it a little longer in the top tube than a standard CX bike? Looks like it is, but hard to tell from the pictures. I’ve worked out I’ll need a longer ETT than most off-the-peg designs seem to offer.

For the record; I have nothing against Pact, and I’m sure their customers are very happy. But they don’t offer quite the service I want, as I’ve already stated. There are other considerations, such as aesthetics and small details, which Pact won’t be able to give me, hence why I’m choosing a UK builder. I’m more interested in what people have had custom made, and the thoughts and requirements that shape their decision making. If I’m going to invest a not inconsiderable amount of money in a bicycle frame, I’d quite like to try and get it right!

One idea someone suggested to me recently was to have an extended seat tube, which would do away with using a separate seatpost, but I’m not so sure it would work well in Titanium, and may present other long-term issues. But I’m open to suggestions and it’s nice to consider options.

I did become a little distracted by the idea of having Anodised graphics, a la Firefly. Expensive, and utterly useless, but hey, why not? :D

Are the ‘Irwin’ Record ones any good or has someone just bought the name, bit like they do for old bike manufacturers and then turn out shit?

Sadly, the latter. Nothing you can buy from Machine Mart for £70 will be anywhere near the quality of the proper old Record vices. The metal used in the Chinese made stuff is of poor quality, and from experience, they just aren’t made to the same accuracy as the old British stuff. I’ve seen cheap Chinese vices actually snap when used in a workshop. If you want to do any heavy work with it, then invest in something decent. The cheapo ones might be ok for light/occasional use, but I’d not risk safety for the sake of saving money.

Having said that, Axminster appear to be selling some very expensive ‘Irwin Record’ vices such as this one:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/record-irwin-no-25-fitters-vice-150mm-6-in

So it’s a bit confusing. Personally, I’d look around for a decent old British Record vice. I picked up a lovely old Record 52 1/2 QR woodworking vice for just £30 a couple of years ago, and a strip and clean later, it’s perfect. Stuff was made to last back then.

Well their welding courses are aimed at the automotive/sheet metal fabrication and repair industries, seemed very rigidly structured, and won’t really be involving much tube joining, so not for me. Pursuing a couple of other avenues though, so still hopeful.

Mayan; that’s superb! You must be really chuffed! Would you care to share more thoughts and experiences on my thread here?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/frame-building-anyone-learnt-done-a-course-taught-yourself

You don’t have to read any of it boblo; there are thousands of other threads for you to enjoy.

Paul4stones; thanks, that’s a great article. Really sorry to read about your injuries, hope you heal up quickly. Your bike is very close to the kind of thing I’m planning. What’s the maximum tyre width you can put in there? I know that a lot of carbon forks are quite limited. Where did you have the frame made?

Do you find the bike excels at any particular type of riding, or is it pretty good for most things? On Sunday, I concluded that it will need to be pretty capable off road, but out and out speed isn’t a major consideration. Comfort over performance there. The bars look interesting, what are they?

Shedbrewed; interesting to read your comments about Burls re the welds. Aesthetics are important to me, so that’s an area I want to be beautiful as well as functional.

I’m also considering the possibility of stuff like seatpost and handlebars. I saw a selection of bars recently that looked like they would be great for all-round use, and thought that such an idea could be ‘borrowed’ and adapted:

Still a troll

I’d kind of figured that you are, but if you do have any genuinely interesting insight, I’d still be up for reading it.

I had a long list, but then I saw that picture of Wendy James on page 2, and I’ve forgotten why I’m here.

I appreciate cars from an aesthetic point of view, but know nothing about them, so any ‘supercar’ wold be utterly wasted on me (plus I can’t drive anyway!). I occasionally go past a house with a lovely old Citroen on the forecourt, always with a fresh puddle of some sort of fluid beneath it. I suppose I’d like something that I found beautiful, which is a very subjective thing. I do find just about al contemporary cars to be really quite boring really. And I don’t think cost is necessarily an indicator of style really. I find a well-kept old mini to be vastly nicer than some ostentatious ‘performance vehicle’.

So, if you had the disposable income would you get an expensive bike? Why? Why not?

This is more pertinent to myself. I am planning to have a custom frame made, and will probably then go against my own rule of ‘use existing parts’ and build it up with stuff I really like the look of. A significant element of the project is to be able to have something really unique and personal, something in which I’ve had a part in it’s creation. Interestingly, doing this will still cost less than I could spend on some mass-produced bikes. So I suppose it’ all about value to the owner.

What’s money for, if it isn’t for spending?

Maybe to invest in something with the potential of producing results of greater value than simply money alone?

I’m going to a local FE college tomorrow, to check out the welding/fabrication courses they run, so hopefully I’ll be enrolling on something which will give me a basic foundation. Is there anything I should be concentrating on, which would be beneficial to going on to a frame-building course? I imagine sheet metal work probably won’t be as useful as learning how to mitre and join tubes.

Typically for me, I’ve sort of forgotten about this, as other distractions happened. That, and I have a short attention span. But a ride on Sunday reminded me I really do want another bike, so I’m re-enthused. My requirements have become a little more refined (do I really want v-brake mounts when discs are now so ubiquitous?). And it’s unlikely I’ll be doing any solo round the world trips, so it doesn’t have to be particularly utilitarian, or super strong. So it’s now about discarding unnecessary elements and concentrating on what I really want from the bike. Which is al-day comfort, a bit of a jack of all trades but also something a bit nice. So still quite vague really!

I do need to sort myself out and make some decisions, as otherwise it’ll never happen. This thread’s been fairly useful though, so thanks to those who contributed positively. And I’m still up for any other ideas people might have. I’d love to see examples of reader’s bikes.

“When you started you were looking to find a uk based frame builder who understood enough to design and build you a Ti frame.

Now you’re building your own design of frame to your own design out of steel?

It’s not surprising people are a bit confused?”

They are two separate things. I am going to have a Titanium frame made, and I also want to learn how to make my own frame (from steel as that’s the material used in all of the courses). The frame building/welding/metalworking project is also completely separate. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

Investigations into having a Titanium frame made led me to think about also learning to build a bike frame myself. And to look more into the proposed workshop project. I think some folk have jumped to their own conclusions about what I want to do.

Very sorry to hear about your experience, OP. Hope something gets resolved for you.

Years ago, I ‘lent’ a friend an old bike so he could use it as transport. I didn’t really expect or even want it back, but I was very disappointed when I learned his girlfriend had thrown it in a skip because it was ‘broken’. She’d done this while he was out one day, and all it needed was a bit of a service. It wasn’t a bad bike either. It wasn’t so much loosing it that upset me, more the lack of understanding it’s value and serviceability. And it was still, technically, my bike.

The reason I’d lent him the bike in the first place, was because the bike he’d lent to another friend had been stolen (the guy left it unlocked in the entrance of a busy supermarket). He, like me, never saw any recompense for our loss. Sometimes you just have to accept things and move on. Hopefully, other good things will happen to redress the balance.

I remember a microfiche machine in the local library. The general public were never allowed to use it, and you’d have to wait for the fierce head librarian to try to find the information for you. This was always very slow, and not always successful, as she had terrible eyesight and hand-/eye co-ordination.

“Just get Ben Cooper to build you something.”

Yore missing the entire point, which is to learn how to do something. I can easily go and buy pretty much any frame on the market, but that’s not what I want. I would like to learn new skills, and gain a better understanding of bicycle frame manufacture. In the past, I’ve taught myself woodwork to an acceptable standard, and can make my own furniture. I have several pieces around the house which give me enormous satisfaction to use and own. I’m currently making a piece for a friend, which is a lot of fun and very rewarding.

I do love Ben Cooper’s work, and would love him to make me something one day. I’m very envious of his skills and talents.

Brant, as we’ve already established, doesn’t make frames, but designs them and has them made abroad. Again, this isn’t what I’m looking for.

“They couldn’t, otherwise everyone would do it and Dave Yates would be driving a Ferrari.

I’m impressed by your enthusiasm, but I’d not trust someone who’s frame building experience was only to have built a frame on the Dave Yates course to build me a frame, let alone base a business around him relaying that information 2nd hand!”

I don’t think you actually understand what we’d like to achieve; we aren’t going into bike frame production any time soon. The idea was to be able to provide simple repairs, and some basic welding training, which could bring in extra revenue as well as valuable experience. It’s not all about massive profits. Sadly, the current manager isn’t as far-sighted as the previous one. As for the lad himself; you have absolutely no idea what he has achieved or is capable of, based on the lack of information you have. I’m confident he has the skills and talent to be able to progress in this area, given the right resources. Which is whyI’m willing to invest in the project.

“While frame building isn’t the black art many would have you believe, it’s a shed load more complex than you appear to think it is and the idea that a 52k business income is a sustainable business idea is amusing at best.”

Again, you’ve got things wrong. I’d like to learn how to build a bike frame, and help start up a project which could one day possible lead to bike frame production, as well as other creative stuff, and possible become an educational resource for others. Again, it’s not all about money. We can secure sufficient financial resources to get things off the ground, plus be able to sustain the project for at least a few years. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

“Just been blasting my wife’s front triangle during lunchtime at work”

Nice. She must be very happy!

“Very good guys at the BA”

I’m hearing some very positive noises about them from others too. Annoying that it’s a bit ‘out of the way’, but might be fun for a mini-holiday.

“Almost 20 years I reckon.”

Blimey! That’s quite an ‘apprenticeship’! Do you have any pictures of your work? Especially interested in more ‘creative’ or ‘arty’ stuff.

“tying up a welder and 3 stations doing a course for 2 people paying £1k a week would not be good business sense.
“

They could charge half that and still turn a useful profit, as part of a larger project. Plus other staff members would have the opportunity to learn skills too; the management fail to see the longer term goal though, sadly.