It depends on how many people in the plane are suffering from air rage.

ransos – Member
What I want to know is can a plane take off on a conveyor belt

No dummy they used giant elastic bands on ships to launch aircraft…didn’t you watch the world at war?????

On the topic of road manners, I’d be interested in drivers’ views generally on whether it’s ok for motorcyclists to ‘wiggle’ between 2 clear lanes of traffic at a set of lights (effectively under/over taking without safe room to do so) and then complain that a car driver is reluctant to give way to avoid being 2 abreast?

I always give motorcyclists the same space as a car but they are just knobs when they force their way up stationery lines of traffic.

Up until recently I was a cycle courier in london and I’ve had many an argument with people who’ve cut me up, knocked me off or walked out in front of me. At the time I always seem to go completely mental. I’ve never been punched or shoved, but I’ve done it to taxi drivers etc… I think the key is to get unreasonably annoyed and appear to be a complete nutjob so people don’t want to get involved.

I was cut up and nearly knocked off the bike in Rusholme in Manchester once. The taxi driver got out of the car after he forced me on to the pavement and started racially abusing me. He said “go back to where you come from” (he was Asian and I am a hairy Englishman) and I’ve never laughed so much in my life 😆 Oh, and his wife and kid where in the back of his car too. Jeremy Beadle didn’t appear unfortunately. Strangely, the same week another taxi driver stopped me, wound his window down and gave me a hat as he said I looked cold. Again, Beadle was nowhere to be seen.

In situations like that I always ask myself, “What would Jason Bourne do?”

they are just knobs when they force their way up stationery lines of traffic.

so the traffic is stationary. How exactly are they forcing there way through? Shunting cars out their way?
People get very cross when you can travel faster than them and yet they also get annoyed when you are travelling slower than them as well.
You can filter stationary traffic FWIW

so the traffic is stationary. How exactly are they forcing there way through? Shunting cars out their way?
People get very cross when you can travel faster than them and yet they also get annoyed when you are travelling slower than them as well.
You can filter stationary traffic FWIW

Exactly.

Junkyard/toys – My question used the word ‘wiggle’ – do you have a view on that? And the subsequent expectation that the car driver you pull alongside will give way when the motorcyclist sets off so as to allow them the space they require?

‘Force’ was maybe a poor term but it was referring to motorbikes wiggling between the wing mirrors of stationery/slow moving traffic in 2 lanes and then poking their front wheel into the space between two cars so as to ‘claim’ their ‘new car sized space in that lane’.

Motor cyclists get cross when they’re not given the space of a car hence I merely think they’d be better advised to ride with that in mind at all times. Safer for all.

ddepreddave. I used to do the wiggle all the time, (don’t motorbike anymore) so that I could get ahead. if the bike isn’t slowing you down what is your problem?

i think it is what I would do if I was on a motorbike or cycle and I would expect it to annoy a number of car drivers who will try and shut the gap to prevent me and then blame me for it. I expect them to justify it with fairly flimsy logic and very little /nothing that is in the highway code.
Why care a motorbike is now in front of you. Does it really matter?
Ps Why can they not get past you like they have done to reach you ? is it because you closed the gap to stop them?
Non issue to me tbh I pull over and let them through as it costs me next to nothing tbh an do the same when moving if they want to pass me.

Up until recently I was a cycle courier in london and I’ve had many an argument with people who’ve cut me up, knocked me off or walked out in front of me. At the time I always seem to go completely mental. I’ve never been punched or shoved, but I’ve done it to taxi drivers etc… I think the key is to get unreasonably annoyed and appear to be a complete nutjob so people don’t want to get involved.

maybe it’s time to move out of the city..

Anyway. Answer to OP’s Q – I think you either know you’ll know what to do, or you shouldn’t get yourself into that situation.

No problem to me personally as I drive like an old man anyway so time’s not an issue 😉 Just interested as in an earlier post a ‘biker’ kicked a car’s wing because of this very occurence and I’ve also seen a driver who was stationery in traffic open his car door and the biker pile into it doing just this. The car door certainly wasn’t flimsy!

I can’t imagine overtaking in the same lane as being advisable at any time, legal or not. Any Police out there able to say one way or the other? In the case of the car driver opening his door who would be to blame?

I don’t go in for the rude gesture. I wear glasses. I’ve found the most effective way of diffusing a situation is to remove my glasses and offer them to the offending motorist. Works best if you can do it while trackstanding.

Cheeky and gets the point across.

ask them if they’ve ever had their balls/breasts weighed…

As a quiet, shy and gentle looking soul, i’d try to avoid a situation where someone would get angry enough to want to harm me. If someone drives like a fool, let them go on their way, gesticulating wildly won’t change their behaviour and even if they decide not to stop and get into manly breasticle pushing and fisticuffs, they may well take it out on another cyclist as a result of you winding them up further.

peace and love from the fluffy bunny of cycling

filtering is legal the highway code is vague but mentions that you do it safely but give no other hints
If a car overtakes a stationary [parked] car and the driver opens the door whose fault is that…obviously the person who opens the door.
i have had a car overtake pull in and then open the door on a bike and in a car. Hit them with the bike and had to reverse the car to let them shut the door.
I once saw two cars try and squeeze through a gap then shout then go to get out and neither could open the door wide enough ..very funny that one.
The solution is better driving all round other road users are not your enemy even if they are annoying.

88
Manoeuvring. You should be aware of what is behind and to the sides before manoeuvring. Look behind you; use mirrors if they are fitted. When in traffic queues look out for pedestrians crossing between vehicles and vehicles emerging from junctions or changing lanes. Position yourself so that drivers in front can see you in their mirrors. Additionally, when filtering in slow-moving traffic, take care and keep your speed low.

Junkyard – Right, thanks and totally agree re better driving all round. Filtering seems very open to interpretation but covered by other rules re safe manoeuvres and under/over taking. You takes your chances…. I suppose.

Like most, i’ve had my fair share of incidents with drivers, sometimes aggro sometimes not.
I once had a bloke scream up behind me and pull a ridiculously dangerous overtake just so he could be in front of me at the traffic lights – which were red. It was the middle lane of three and the other two lanes had a queue of vehicles, so he left me with no room to escape and nearly smeared me down the side of a car. I tapped on his drivers window and asked him – fairly forcefully i admit but without swearing – exactly what he thought he was playing at. He just waved his hand around, said “yeah yeah” and wound his window up. I went completely and utterly Librarian Poo, tried to headbutt him through the glass, punched his wing mirror off (Merc C220) and then, when he tried to jump his car forward a little i picked up my bike and went to throw it through his rear windscreen – whereupon he jumped a red light and screamed off through opposing traffic.

All very funny you might think, but i was ashamed of myself immediately afterwards, the looks of terror i got from the surrounding motorists made me feel awful, if he had crashed his car jumping the light i could have been responsible for someone’s injury or even death.

Another time a ‘gentleman of the road/pikey’ pulled out of a junction right on top of me and hit me, i yelled at him as he pulled out and his response was that i had ridden into him! He got out and swung a punch, blocked it cos it was rather half-hearted and he was a bloke in his late 50’s at best. I reported him and let the law do it’s stuff.

I have a very, very short fuse so i’m really trying to be a calmer, better person otherwise i’m going to end up inside or badly hurt.

I’ve got 12 mini cycle stickers along the wing of my car. One for each one I’ve got out and punched after they have abused me after driving quietly past minding my own business. Not one of them has got back up for more. Interesting that they all seem to be well nails whilst behind the keyboard. They are all soft as mince, I’ve never had to resort to the jemmy under my seat yet.

This thread is full of hero.

And I see the PC people have arrived too.

Living in a land where fear of every driver ‘mowing’ you down – it’s fine, if you want to let drivers cut in too close to you, cut you up, or knock you off – and your only response will be once of “oh dear chap, please don’t do that again”. That may be the fluffy little world you want to live in – but I’d rather let them know they’re idiots – because with your response, they really won’t give a sh*t.

In 20 yrs riding around London noone has ever got out of their car to confront me and I am the archtypal 10 stone, specky weed! Ride in an assertive but defensive way, use hand signals, decent lights when gloomy or dark and show some common courtesy to other raod users and pedestrians and you should be fine. Everyone i know that gets into arguments is an overly aggressive and often not very experienced rider. If I was confronted whether I scarpered or faced up to them would depend on their size, winesses and any obvious weaponary but I expect I would scarper.

Well i’m 5’2″ and 9.5 stone but it didn’t stop me from being an agressive pillock!

Best to avoid situations like that. It isn’t good for you. There will never be a shortage of beligerant drivers who have no concept of the great metal mass they are driving around and no consideration for your safety. Especially true at rush hour. My route now is road and pavement. I am not meant to ride on large swathes of pavement on which I ride, but I consider it too dangerous to obey the highway code on a bicycle at peak times (and at night) on many roads in Reading.

The cyclist picks up scraps from the table. All hail the car.

Edited toi add: assertive but defensive riding? Hilarious. I used to advocate this, but not anymore. Riding assertively and defensively is a dangerous game, since some motirists will take this as a challenge to duel. A duel you have the risk of losing painfully…

i had a motorbike nearly take me out on the way home at a junction
we both had to skid to a halt in the torrential rain
he shouted at me for not looking where i was going and then sped off
i caught him at the next lights i was all ready to have a go and he just flipped up his visor up and said ‘really sorry was my fault!’ to which i said, ok no worries

I normally carry a spare keyboard for any bike/car altercations.

Surely it’s just a lot easier to ride assertively but not be a dick at the same time? Treat drivers with respect even if not earned, and at the same time don’t let yourself be taken advantage of. I will speak to a driver informing them of why their move was dangerous to me, but what benefit can be gained from getting angry other than to piss the driver off even more?!?

Having taught Chuck Norris all he knows this situation never really arises.

Your unitelligable ramblings confuse me, I assume you’re either 10, or have an IQ of 10, but I think that was aimed at me, as you quoted my post, although you actually quoted Junkyard quoting my quote. Very odd. You ought to learn to punctuate things too, makes your drivel even harder to read.

Anyway… yes, I do own several bikes, and they get used a lot, year round, as I said previously on the road a fair bit as well. More than 500 road miles in the last month, a good proportion of those in Central London, and I’ve managed not to shout anything at any of the many car drivers (or cyclists) who’ve nearly had me off.

I’m not quite sure how this makes me a coward, I’ve not said anything I won’t ‘back up in real life’, I don’t even know what you mean. You sound like a particular species of moron, I will happily say this to you face to face, I’m not saying you are one, but your online persona certainly indicates that. I imagine you’ll now say you want to fight me. Which really confirms what I thought.

Much love xx

LOL Passive aggression!

You know if car driver gets out of his car and comes towards you can tell from his stance where ever he is likely to start fighting when to leg it

n ever ever get involved in a stand up confrontation. tell the driver he is a twunt and ride off laughing.

I think you have to tell them they are in the wrong and sometimes you need to startle the sleepy ones.

However hard you think you are, or even actually are, noone is hard in road cleats or cycling shoes in general.

So don’t kick off you’re wearing them – just leg it.

banging on the roof seems to get their attention.

however it’s true,as cyclists we just don’t exist.
there is a cyclist inferiority complex.
bike lanes add to this,cyclists who are afraid of cars (because they don’t consider themseñves vehicles,but pedestrians on bikes) want them.
motorists want them because then we don’t take up their precious space.
politicians want them because it gets them votes.
while in fact they’re more dangerous(at junctions)
slower
don’t teach cyclists how to behave in traffic
don’t teach motorists that there are other roadusers.
I’ve had motorists tell me I should be on the bike lane.
So I reply the speed limit on the bike lane is 20kmh,and I’m doing 35-40kmh.even asked the police,they said ‘we haven’t deployed laser guns to bike lanes so far’.
I think the police (here,but in other places I’ve lived) just don’t have a clue(mostly).
I once had the police yell at me because I’d told a van driver to f.off as he’d passed me with an inch to spare,they told me I should have been off the road.on the gravel shoulder.
(also had police motorcyclists ask me how to trackstand,watching me at lights)
how many here remember that critical mass video from brasil?

having said that,most drivers are considerate/just drive normally.

but I find myself only going out onthe road on sat and sundays,because I’m just tired of a near miss every single ride.

I commute every day though,on a road bike.find it quite safe.maybe because my speed is the same as the motorists in the city.maybe because it’s nearly always the same drivers.

dunno what advice to offer.I remember reading some american forums a while back.one thing that stuck in my mind was:
‘the only time drivers leave me alone,give me enough space,is when I’m carrying my rifle on my back to go to the shooting range.’
maybe I could get a jersey,with an ak47 on the back.like those tshirts in naples with a seatbelt print on the front.dunno.

http://www.dr.dk/nu/player/#/dr2-tema-jeg-er-saa-glad-for-min-cykel/17934
look at this,allright its in danish.but the bike traffic is so slow!
this cyclist inferiority complex has been taken to extremes in some places,I can’t remember where I was reading about the roadies in amsterdam complaining because they’re not allowed to use the road.must use bikelane.that’s true here in bcn too.if there’s a bikelane you have to use it.
cars=money.simple as that.

http://www.johnforester.com/index.html
I think,asides from people and their moods and interactions with other people and their moods,it all stems from this cyclist inferiority bias.

The car has wrecked our local environment, roads everywhere, drivers driving too fast.. swearing at each other, flipping each other the bird, …no room for cyclists…

The car is king. All hail the car.

If there’s one thing that consistently highlights how stupid humans fundamentally are it’s putting them behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.

There is a mythology that has been carefully constructed around motoring.

Look at the adverts: the open road, the perfect wife and contented children secure in the back.

Then there is the reality: The never-ending and spiralling expense. Sat in traffic jams while your hard earned bleeds out of the exhaust making you feel guilty about the environment while the kids are climbing the walls with boredom.

It’s hardly surprising that many drivers are half psychotic (or behave as if they are). And when they see a cyclist whipping past them all they can see is someone getting something for free.

So on one hand we have millions of delusional solipsists in control of a ton of machinery and on the other the cyclists blessed with instant karma where any bad decision will cost. Not at the end of the month. Not in insurance premiums, fines or garage bills. But instantly.

So I’m not hugely surprised when motorists complain about being delayed for a few seconds by having to safely overtake a cyclist.

I don’t believe its too extreme an example of what’s going on in the mind of many motorists:
“I pay all this money, I was promised freedom, my motorcar coddles me like a baby so I can act like a spoiled child, where’s my freedom. . . . ”

Everyone gets these situations, I have had plenty of chats but no-one has got out of the car yet. I try to get as close to the car as possible so they can’t get the door open.

Everyone is brave sat behind the wheel or the keyboard even when they are in the wrong. The taxi driver on the m62 last Friday swerving between lanes with no indication while on the phone let me know he wanted to kill me because I beeped the horn of the bike when along side.
C O C K and he needed telling.

van cough cough and joao3v16 both make excellent points. TBH I am a car hater too.

This morning I had an incident that was quite eye opening.

Going along in a cycle lane uphill, a car passes and about 100 yards up the road he stops, just at the edge of the cycle lane but not blocking the lane, but blocking the traffic. Chap gets out and stands behind his car at the edge of the cycle lane waiting…

So I wave him on and he posts his letter in the post box on the pavement. Nice chap didn’t want to block the cycle lane so I would have to stop my uphill struggle, and let the car drivers cope with a pause. I mean all they have to do is raise and lower their feet, I’m pedalling away like a bastard..

I take back all I said yesterday. On my usual commute this morning the first 15 miles were great. Nice countryside, courteous drivers (including busses).

Without getting into a “Wind in the Willows” story, all that changed when I entered Edinburgh via Seafield road. A Taxi came alongside me and began to pull into the kerb pushing me onto railings. There was no reason for him to pull over other than to p*ss me off. I slammed the side of the taxi with my fist at which point even the passenger had a go at the driver.

Rather than start a rant, I pulled infront of the taxi and slowed my pace. Yes it was childish, immature and needless, but it made me feel better.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I[/video]

This link shows one example of a Sensei vs a conventional mixed martial artist…

I suspect other results are possible depending on the relative skills of the fighters.