Ukraine

Some people appear to have underestimated the seriousness of the situation.

Yep.

Some people appear to have underestimated the seriousness of the situation.

Not really, I just know when things are well outside my control and try not to let them consume me. Some of the rhetoric on here about nukes and WW3 is embarrassing. It’s like watching children doing their history GCSEs have a debate but not leaving it at the classroom door.

Some people need to stop telling some people what to do and what to think. I’ve had so much advice over the last couple of pages that I can’t take it all in!

Bored now. Just wanted to have a grown up discussion. Thanks.

@grum
I don’t think any on here wants this to escalate.

And well done to everyone who has donated 55mil in one day via Dec no matter your views

And well done to everyone who has donated 55mil in one day via Dec no matter your views

+1 to that

Let’s hope it’s just the start.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60623162

“While wanting to collect clothes and other items for people in need is laudable, the things people give today may not be what people need tomorrow and aid workers say they can’t use much of what is arriving. Donating through the DEC is the most helpful way people can assist,” he said.

He added that while it was an “astonishing amount” to raise on the first day of the appeal, people were being urged to keep donating as “the needs is great and the response needed is likely to run into months and years”.

DEC members, and local aid agencies working with them, are operating in Ukraine and in the neighbouring countries of Poland, Romania, Hungary, Moldova and Slovakia.
They are using the money raised to provide trauma care, as well as providing medical treatment, food, water and shelter.

How many times? NOBODY has said this. This is entirely a figment of you and your mates imagination and being used as a strawman at every opportunity.

People want a simple good vs evil narrative. Real life is messy and complicated and confusing and involves lots of crappy compromises. Lots of people don’t seem to be able to handle that so instead indulge themselves with bizarre fantasies about assassinations and uprisings etc.

The reality is that this likely ends in a peace negotiation where Putin gets most of what he wants because no-one wants a wider conflict.

This is a really good article:

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/03/letter-from-kyiv-putins-war-on-ukraine-is-pozor-rossii/

Yeah, but you also didn’t understand why anyone would think he would invade. To be fair, I didn’t think he would invade but I was only mildly surprised when it happened.

To be honest Bruce I don’t think its a case of, we didnt think it would happen, the number of troops, the bringing of armaments into Belarus via a ‘supposed war game’ pretty much put the chance of invasion in the more than likely.

What we were hoping for, you ,me, the state department, the UK government and the Ukrainians themselves is that they hoped wouldn’t be an invasion, and Russia would get the assurances it wanted, and pull back

They have in the past massed on the Ukrainian border, then pulled back, so everyone was hoping against hope that this would be one of those occasions.

But the rhetoric from the US president, from BJ, from others in the west was ramping up the pressure to the point even the Ukrainian government made a statement asking for the western governments and press to basically cool it, and that they themselves didn’t think they’re would be an invasion- Which they actually said on TV.. Again this was more hope that an acceptance.

The last time anyone said anything useful on this thread was chewkw, about 5 says ago, when he pretty much called the situation as it is today whilst the rest of the forum was talking about the various ways regime change was going to happen.

I haven’t seen anything from any poster since then that has added much useful information, [though I am now a Nuclear facilities expert and I’ve learnt that a javelin is not what I thought it was].

[MODS – We’re closing the thread for a while to give everyone a chance to cool off. When it reopens, please be mindful of Marks message about playing the ball, not the man. We do not want to close the thread permanently, but the amount of reports we are getting is becoming ridiculous.

Play nice]

First in after the ban!

What have I missed?

27.5 makes the trails come alive.

Turn you gas central heating down/off, cut your electricity consumption. Drive more economicaly and eliminate unnecessary car journeys. 35% of European gas comes from Russia and you can do your bit to eliminate that.

Thanks

Before we get into it, let’s take a moment to acknowledge the things we all agree on:

I don’t suppose it’s feasible for a force from non-NATO countries to get in there to enforce a no fly zone on both combatants and subsequently deploy a Peacekeeping force on ground eventually. Presumably UN would broker that..but Russia likely to veto?

A lady i work with came into work in tears.
Her husband volunteered to drive to Poland for the Red Cross. He has a lwb panel van so can carry a fair bit.
She thinks he will be bombed or shot at as he is going to Ukrainian border.
I tried my best to calm her down by explaining that the war cannot cross the border for many reasons and he should be perfectly safe.
Then i watched the C4 news at 1900.
Ok, so it could be Western propaganda but blimey that was a tough watch.
She is right to be frightened.

I don’t suppose it’s feasible for a force from non-NATO countries to get in there to enforce a no fly zone on both combatants and subsequently deploy a Peacekeeping force on ground eventually. Presumably UN would broker that..but Russia likely to veto?

I’m not sure who would have the appetite for that.

It’s feasible, but there would need to be a degree of agreement from Russia or it would just add more guns and another dimension to a gun fight. And yeah, they’d flat out veto I reckon.

Edit to add: also what @airvent said.

I don’t suppose it’s feasible for a force from non-NATO countries to get in there to enforce a no fly zone on both combatants and subsequently deploy a Peacekeeping force on ground eventually. Presumably UN would broker that..but Russia likely to veto?

Lol.Does any non-NATO country have an airforce sufficiently large to enforce a no-fly zone? China probably…

Who had the stupid idea of veto at the UN and can it be overturned?

This is surprising and encouraging

Ukraine still has 'significant majority' of its military aircraft -U.S. official https://t.co/knxZaKGW7E pic.twitter.com/Jab0efdAAp

— Reuters (@Reuters) March 4, 2022

Who had the stupid idea of veto at the UN and can it be overturned?

I’m sure I read that it was seen as a ‘gift’ to the victors of WW2, whether it still is a sensible mechanism or not is very debateable.

After reading that the Russian conscripts receive 4 months of training I’m not surprised things aren’t going to plan. 4 months!

Channel 4 news was horrible.

That car with the engine still running, a dead woman just outside the door slumped against it, a dead man in the passenger seat, dead. Car riddled with bullets.

My God.

Mate, there’s some real horrific stuff out there for sure, saw similar early on, the Russians firing on civilians caught between them and ukranian forces and much worse.

Jeremy Bowen flagged up on Twitter a photo of 4 18yo Ukrainian boys, 3 days’ training and they’re on the front line. Obscene.

https://twitter.com/BenDLieberman/status/1499812567232958466/photo/3

Crikey, I guess it’ll be even shorter for those volunteering or being voluntold on the Ukrainian side, they certainly don’t have time on their side; makes sense why they’ve been asking for foreign volunteers with experience.

It’s a meatgrinder for sure.

Kin cannon fodder, mercenary bastard leaders on both sides.

Obscene

Very much so, but what age limit and amount of training do you think should apply when a huge army is about to forcibly take your city and inflict un-immaginable horror on your friends and family?

Sorry, not worthy of a response.

Did anyone watch the UN council today? Russian delegate said Ukraine deliberately set fire to the training rooms after they got caught by brave Russian army defenders protecting the power station.

Nothing to do with the projectiles they fired then? They clearly went to the same PR school as Comical Ali.

gwaelod
Free Member

I don’t suppose it’s feasible for a force from non-NATO countries to get in there to enforce a no fly zone on both combatants and subsequently deploy a Peacekeeping force on ground eventually. Presumably UN would broker that..but Russia likely to veto?

To enforce a no fly zone you need an Air Force (or group thereof) at least as good as the one(a) you’re trying to stop. I don’t believe that the U.K. could enforce one on its own for example, and ignoring NATO for a minute). Maybe U.K. + France + A.N. Other

Lol.Does any non-NATO country have an airforce sufficiently large to enforce a no-fly zone? China probably…

Possibly only Israel.

Possibly only Israel.

Im sure Israel’s enemies would love it if their entire Airforce buggered off on peace-keeping duties…

My current rather simplistic stream of conciousness brainfarts, I fully expect to be ridiculed for my childish thoughts and told to gtf so don’t worry bout offending me.

1) If Putin loses this war he’s finished in Russia so I fear he will throw everything he has at Ukraine as the alternative will be humiliation in his own Russia.

2) If Putin wins this war Russia will become another pariah state such as North Korea and destabilise every country around him which will lead to Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland, Malta, Switzerland and Sweden joining Nato.

3) Why are the homes of oligarchs who support Putin still standing in this country?, im surprised they haven’t been firebombed, to be honest if I knew of any in my area and wasn’t housebound id be up for it.

4) Oligarch homes in this country, take them over and use them to house the Ukrainian refugees, use the oligarch seized assets to rebuild Ukraine/give to Ukrainian people.

5) Offer Ukrainian citizenship to anyone from the west who wishes to join the war to get round the “no foreign troops involved clause”, There’s already 100’s if not 1000’s of foreign mercenaries operating at the front line so let a force in under Ukrainian citizenship with whatever modern weapons they want. (I know…….ridiculous keyboard warrior thought)

6) Putin gets removed by his own people, whether that be his cabinet/army generals as it appears they were not fully informed of his plans to invade, i’m referring to his head of intelligence who appeared to not know of his plans.

7) ………..I dunno anymore?, I hope my Ukrainian dentist who went across last week to fight is safe, I met him through working in the bike shop and serviced his bikes/went gravel riding throughout the galloway hills before I had to stop cycling (or standing up) due to ms, I hope he makes it back home safe, he used to be in the Ukrainian army so at least he knows what he’s getting into.

Humph……no matter what happens its all fubar

Anyone trying to start a no fly zone will have to shoot down Russian planes. This will be a declaration of war, so it will all kick off. WW3 probably. So that’s why no-one’s done it. The US official PR tweets said the same thing IIRC.

Offer Ukrainian citizenship to anyone from the west who wishes to join the war to get round the “no foreign troops involved clause”

That wouldn’t wash.

6) Putin gets removed by his own people, whether that be his cabinet/army generals as it appears they were not fully informed of his plans to invade, i’m referring to his head of intelligence who appeared to not know of his plans.

I’d be somewhat surprised if “the Oligarchs” haven’t put a very large price on Putin’s head by now. Collectively, he’s cost them untold billions of dollars and ruined (or certainly heavily restricted) their lifestyle.