Ukraine

I’m not commenting on their motivation for taking key infrastructure (that should be pretty obvious) but rather answering the questions asked.

Apologies, I was aiming my post at JasonDS though replied quoting you…

As for hacking, I wouldn’t be too sure about that, Stuxnet was tailored for nuclear processing and it’s not unrealistic to think similar couldn’t be made for Ukraine’s newer plants, the older ones will probably be stuffed full of relays.

I had understood that post Chernobyl, there was no noire Nuclear plants built in Ukraine. I would have thought anything left in Ukraine was as you say, stuffed full of relays.

Despite post-Georgia negotiations, it is NATO that is seeking to expand.

Is NATO seeking to expand or are countries seeking to join NATO?

NATO doesn’t invade countries that refuse to join. NATO members don’t even impose sanctions on countries that refuse to join.

In fact, I’m not even sure how many countries have been asked to join and refused.

How many of us still don’t make use of our rights as pedestrians and cyclists for fear of road rage? I have a lot of sympathy for any Russians keeping their heads down. Can’t do much good if you’re dead or in jail. Poor buggers.

Despite post-Georgia negotiations, it is NATO that is seeking to expand.

Or to put a slightly different spin on it, there are neighbours of Russia who are quite keen to join NATO.

As for hacking, I wouldn’t be too sure about that, Stuxnet was tailored for nuclear processing

although AIUI (happened to listen to a podcast about it yesterday!) the facility targeted by Stuxnet was off-line so the virus was smuggled in on USB sticks by spies, James Bond style! I’d imagine a lot of critical power/military facilities aren’t connected to the Internet, for obvious reasons.

Apologies, I was aiming my post at JasonDS though replied quoting you…

No worries, just realised my reply was a bit blunt, sorry!

I had understood that post Chernobyl, there was no noire Nuclear plants built in Ukraine. I would have thought anything left in Ukraine was as you say, stuffed full of relays.

Most are 1980’s but there are a handful that were built in the mid 90’s and early 00’s.

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-t-z/ukraine.aspx

“It’s not apathy. It’s terrifying paralysing fear.”

It’s both Kelvin, as a couple of posters up the page mentioned, look at the apathy towards politics that has been engineered in our own country. Imagine 24 years of rule by Boris.

Apathy or not, the suggestion was made that the Russian people weren’t going to stand for it and I responded that Putin was perfectly capable of treating his own citizens as brutally as he does those in Ukraine and now it looks like martial law for Russians tomorrow.

Or to put a slightly different spin on it, there are neighbours of Russia who are quite keen to join NATO.

I’m not sure NATO is actively seeking to expand, more that people want to join it for protection.

And Ukraine is showing why.

Or to put a slightly different spin on it, there are neighbours of Russia who are quite keen to join NATO.

Well will you look at that, it appears to be the case- what a coincidence!! Why could that be?

Or, to paraphrase the much missed Mrs Merton ‘what is it about being on the doorstep of a terrifying basket case of an expansionist autocratic regime that draws you to joining a defensive alliance?’

although AIUI (happened to listen to a podcast about it yesterday!) the facility targeted by Stuxnet was off-line so the virus was smuggled in on USB sticks by spies, James Bond style!

IIRC it wasn’t so much spies as social engineering, leaving infected USB sticks about as someone is bound to be helpful and plug it in to see who it belongs to.

I don’t think it was targeting nuclear facilities per se but the Siemens generic control boxes. The original plan was just to send the odd box and the centrifuge on the blink to slow things down while engineers chased faults and didnt suspect anything. Mossad decided that was too subtle so tweaked the code to send everything into meltdown… The BBC doc is also very good.

Slightly off-tack… I know there are lots of sports banning Russian participation now but are those sports still broadcasting into Russia?

depriving them of coverage of major sporting event would be a logical next step.

I responded that Putin was perfectly capable of treating his own citizens as brutally as he does those in Ukraine

That is my biggest fear right now, after the war in Ukraine being ramped up to city flattening mode.

More Russian news outlets closed again today. Standing up to Putin now is as dangerous as facing up to the Russian troops in Ukraine. Or perhaps more dangerous in many ways. The war at home will be brutal, what little we’ll get to see of it. I really feel for the Russian people in the weeks and months ahead.

There’s an awful lot of people who don’t understand the difference between the words expansion and absorption and they should be a little more cognicent of the predictive nature of using the phrase ‘NATO expansion”.

Jesus h keerrrist the Russian Football Union is complaining about it’s rights being violated!

If you were part of the Russian Football Union you’d be doing the same.

Sad to see Chomsky falling for the “it’s all NATO’s fault” Kremlin talking points 🤷‍♂️

Does anyone know if the Russia stock market has opened yet?

I don’t understand the word ‘cognicent’.

If you were part of the Russian Football Union you’d be doing the same.

Nope

“Does anyone know if the Russia stock market has opened yet?”

When it does, I’ve heard that they are going to be reverting to the barter system.

Time to get Ronald Reagan’s cold was joke book out again.

it is NATO that is seeking to expand

NATO doesn’t send invites or press gang countries. Independent, sovereign states apply to join of their own free will. They do it because they are terrified of their belligerent, dysfunctional neighbour which believes they should come under its control due to some post Soviet sense of grievance. Membership is not a given, there is a long process and no guarantees.

The invasion of Ukraine is directly driving once ambivalent countries towards NATO out of fear. Even Finland is starting to think what was once unthinkable. Putin is directly causing NATO expansion and it’s hard to see why, unless he is genuinely seeking WW3

I don’t think Putin wants WW3, I think he wants territory. He may or may not be mad but he is acting as a Tsar ruling over an empire would.

Moscow stock market has not reopened and I’d be surprised if it does tomorrow.

I don’t think Putin wants WW3

I don’t think he does, at the moment. But if it turns out that he (or Russia, which in his mind is the same) is going down, he’s capable of trying to take the world with him. He said an number of times that there’s no point in having a world if Russia isn’t in it.

Not too far wrong. Always leading all the other kids astray.

Channel 4 News showing pictures of young Russian kids being arrested and put in jail for demonstrating against the Special Military Operations aka War! WTAF??

and Starmsky threatens to withdraw the whip from MPs and Lords who signed up to Stop the War (including Lord John Hendy QC who has 10x the brains of that rightwing dimwit).

depriving them of coverage of major sporting event would be a logical next step.

No, I think they should be able to see the events they are no longer able to participate in. They might ask why.

Slightly off-tack… I know there are lots of sports banning Russian participation now but are those sports still broadcasting into Russia?

depriving them of coverage of major sporting event would be a logical next step.

The Premier League severed its contract with Russian broadcasters today. I imagine everyone else will be doing the same.

Starmsky threatens to withdraw the whip from MPs and Lords who signed up to Stop the War

I think Paul Mason has found the turn of phrase I was looking for…

Since NATO correctly cannot fight, everything depends on sanctions and geopolitical unity … every dumb Twitter deluge of Kremlin talking points gives VVP ghouls hope that some part of the West will crack….

The West won’t crack, and opposition politicians need to be part of that solidarity in response.

Slightly off-tack… I know there are lots of sports banning Russian participation now but are those sports still broadcasting into Russia?

depriving them of coverage of major sporting event would be a logical next step.

I disagree, they should still be broadcast into Russia.
Events with no Russian competitors, stadiums of people wearing Ukrainian colours, tennis players writing anti-war messages on cameras, etc, etc.
Just little things on their own but this is a battle for public opinion in Russia, any alternative to the state narrative has to be a good thing.
I expect most of it is blocked though, not sure how much foreign media is getting through.
.
Talking of foreign media, I was trying to listen to Al Jazeera English on the radio earlier but it wasn’t working. Just my computer? Just looking for a few alternative points of view as I get most of my news from the BBC and The Times, always nice to have a few others
ABC News Radio is mostly concerned with their massive floods, that has, probably understandably, gone totally under the radar here.

Its gone unmentioned so far but did anyone see on the news last night, the treatment dished out to Nigerian and Morrocon students trying to cross the Polish border? Being made to stand in a separate queue and let in at a rate of one african for every 10 white people? If allowed to cross at all?

The Ukranian and Polish governments need to be called out on this.

The dumbest thing is that they were all MEDICAL STUDENTS…

FFS.

The Entire staff of the Russian TV channel “the rain” resigned during a live stream with last words: “no war” and then played “swan lake” ballet video (just like they did on all USSR tv channels when it suddenly collapsed) from ukraine

Tv staff walk out and broadcast swan lake on the tv.
It’s what they played when Chernobyl went up.

Putin won’t have a people to govern soon.

Also https://www.dec.org.uk/

Meant to be humour, but not too far from the truth….

?? Kremlin Statement | лживые ублюдки pic.twitter.com/uXztmfRBGQ

— Simon Brodkin (@SimonBrodkin) March 2, 2022

Tv staff walk out and broadcast swan lake on the tv.

That is the tv company featured in the documentary the BBC broadcast last night.

Also https://www.dec.org.uk/

Seconded.

Paypal option on DEC was stalling for me – must be a good sign! 👍

Yep didn’t work for me about an hour ago either. Card worked fine

NATO doesn’t send invites or press gang countries. Independent, sovereign states apply to join of their own free will. They do it because they are terrified of their belligerent, dysfunctional neighbour which believes they should come under its control due to some post Soviet sense of grievance. Membership is not a given, there is a long process and no guarantees.

The invasion of Ukraine is directly driving once ambivalent countries towards NATO out of fear. Even Finland is starting to think what was once unthinkable. Putin is directly causing NATO expansion and it’s hard to see why, unless he is genuinely seeking WW3

Absolutely this! ^^^
This should be quoted to anyone who just writes the words ‘NATO expansionism’, because it’s clearly and blatantly untrue.

One more time, NATO does not invite membership, sovereign countries have to ask to join, then start a process to gain membership.
It is true, I believe, that a country can be approached to see if they might be interested in joining, Russia was at one point, but I could easily be mistaken, I’m just sure I read it somewhere.

It is true, I believe, that a country can be approached to see if they might be interested in joining, Russia was at one point, but I could easily be mistaken,

No, that’s true.
[Edit] 1954 just after Stalin died

That time Russia tried to join NATO