Ukraine

Lay siege to a city Kyiv’s size? That sounds hugely ambitious.

Jim nails it:

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=501688608093519&set=a.271449591117423

See twitter for the uncensored version.

Caher
Full Member

Some top review trolling of Moscow attractions on Google maps. People publishing grim photos as part of a restaurant review.

It’s actually pretty clever, this stuff. Obviously news sites and social media can be blocked/censored but you can use any channel to get the message through. Kind of the equivalent of dropping pamphlets out of planes. Whether it’s effective or not, who knows.

Woah- is that why we call them fliers?

Klunk
Free Member

bet there’s no side arms allowed in the Kremlin

Ice axe?

Was hoping this was old footage, but now seeing it from a few places

Major explosion reported at an airbase near Kharkiv, possible ammunition depot hit#Ukraine ?? pic.twitter.com/sj3MbN3jLO

— Israel Updates (@WW3updated) March 1, 2022

The balls on these people (and ovaries). On seeing some Russian tanks and soldiers do they run, or hide? No, they grab their car keys and some Molotov cocktails.

That’s massively impressive

It makes me wonder what the Russian soldiers think of it all- who do they think they were sent to fight and kill when a blond girl in a beany hat is lobbing fire bombs at them from a Renault Clio?!?

It makes me wonder what the Russian soldiers think of it all- who do they think they were sent to fight and kill when a blond girl in a beany hat is lobbing fire bombs at them from a Renault Clio?!?

I thought they have been told they are there as a peacekeeping force to because Ukraine is being run by a Nazi government.
If they have had no access to any other information and a blonde girl in a beany hat is throwing petrol bombs at you from a Renault Clio , then I would imagine they think all hell has broken loose and they were there to help.

It has to **** with your head a huge amount.
It is also the nonchalance of the rebellious actions that is amazing too

Andrew Neil on Twitter suggesting that the big convoy is starting to surrender, deliberately sabotaging thier own vehicles. Source he claims is Pentagon/US intelligence…

Please be true.

https://mobile.twitter.com/afneil/status/1498735148128681986

Russia confirmed to be using cluster bombs on targets.

Fully verified by channel 4 with the help of a consultant looking at the discarded casings of them posted on the net in Ukraine.

Blanket bombing.

A Russian businessman has put a $1million bounty out on putin.

I’m sure we could crowdfund a much bigger bounty than that.

Lay siege to a city Kyiv’s size? That sounds hugely ambitious.

Erm… Leningrad?

I’m sure we could crowdfund a much bigger bounty than that.

I’m hoping that is just the start

Andrew Neil on Twitter suggesting that the big convoy is starting to surrender, deliberately sabotaging thier own vehicles. Source he claims is Pentagon/US intelligence…

Please be true.

No mention of the big convoy there sadly

I’d chip in. I’ve read this whole thread with equal parts interest, awe at what Ukrainian citizens are doing and sadness at the fact it is happening at all. I have no experience or knowledge of military tactics or the history of the area. Very naive of me but I just can’t understand the mentality of it all.

China wanting to claim Taiwan, Russia doing what they’re doing. Just madness. Doubly so when the planet is basically **** and we should all be working together to reverse the damage we have done as a species, not having nations compete in some sort of dick measuring contest to see who can scoop up the most land. It won’t mean shit when the planet warms by three degrees.

Sorry for the rant.

Please don’t see me as doing anything other than giving views on what we have done in recent times. There is a lot being made of the use of certain weapons, we’re also guilty of similar.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2003/apr/04/uk.iraq1

If folk don’t want me to post this type of info feel free to say and I’ll stop.

@mashr Read his full feed:

https://mobile.twitter.com/afneil/status/1498732045559861252

Though we do need to be sceptical until more proof is provided.

Other commentators on twitter (who seem well placed) suggesting all sorts of issues for the Russians with troops not motivated and looking to not fight.

WOOdster

Certainly not going to argue with you on that, as far as i am concerns those incidences should be prosecuted too.
That being said it does not in any way excuse them being used in this instance

If folk don’t want me to post this type of info feel free to say and I’ll stop.

Very comfortable with it.  Like the thermobaric stuff the Russians aren’t the first.  This thread is a good balance though so liking it a lot

FunkmasterP I 100% agree.
All war is unnecessary. Unfortunately human greed and ego means it will always be this way.

This is brilliant.

A Russian colleague was in tears on a teams call earlier. He said they consider Ukraine to be relatives and friends and can’t believe this is happening. He said that protesting against it will result in being jailed.

Hoping many of the Russian soldiers on the ground are feeling the same and that will turn the tide against Putin.

China wanting to claim Taiwan, Russia doing what they’re doing. Just madness.

Absolutely, but I think the two are not linked at all.
China’s expansionism is driven by economic needs while they Ukraine war is driven purely by one man’s desire for the return of the USSR.

And I believe China are constructing ‘islands’ not as platforms from which to launch an attack but much more as a way to claim territorial rights over vital (to them) access for shipping traffic.

There have been reports of desertion and logistics failures for a while now. Not sure it’s enough to make much of a difference.

uh oh…… new ‘intel’ coming that other nations are under attack

I STAND WITH CROATIA pic.twitter.com/okL3QTipx4

— Burnside (@BurnsideNotTosh) March 1, 2022

I personally wouldn’t hold out hope of the actual Russian infantry surrendering. Maybe some of the less trained conscripts, but I don’t see it with the professional soldiers. Being in a war zone 100% focuses your thoughts on the job at hand, this includes thinking about your own safety and that of your colleagues. The officers and Senior NCO’s will be keeping a very close eye on the moral of the troops and ensuring they are completely focused.

I hope I’m wrong.

Kind of ironic I’m sure some of you will think but my mum dropped the bombshell that I stayed in Bulgaria with this MAN during the Bulgarian revolution in 1989. I was only 9 but went on a protest march in Sofia. His job at the time was live translating films in a cinema.

He taught me some swear words in Bulgarian! I ate spaghetti with honey/sugar at his parents house. I loved Sofia even as a 9 year old. It was so **** cool!

Absolutely, but I think the two are not linked at all.

Both just fuelled by greed or some variant thereof. I honestly think we over think these things and it boils down to breaking rule one on a truly epic scale. Makes me extremely sad for the future of our species.

Leningrad was indeed a similar size…the siege lasted what, 2 years? And it failed. Not saying the same would happen but I imagine they’d want to assault and capture to get it over with.

A Russian businessman has put a $1million bounty out on putin.

I’m sure we could crowdfund a much bigger bounty than that.

I’m hoping that is just the start

I have visions of a John Wick 3-esque underground Hitman league, with a bounty being updated regularly, and people literally fighting each other for the opportunity to take him out!

Or at the very least the CIA will fund a Russian Mafia based takeover of the Kremlin…

🤔

Andrew Neil on Twitter suggesting that the big convoy is starting to surrender, deliberately sabotaging thier own vehicles. Source he claims is Pentagon/US intelligence…

Without wishing to sound like the Scoffer, my Bullshit-o-meter is being pushed quite high with this one… Not that it wouldn’t be superb propaganda for Ukraine of course, but this is Andrew Neil citing Pentagon intelligence FFS… Bastions of the truth they are not!

Lay siege to a city Kyiv’s size? That sounds hugely ambitious.

Erm… Leningrad?

Serious question now… Which would last longer, Kyiv under siege from the Russian Military forces, or the Russian economy under siege from the rest of the worlds financial institutions? There’s a very real possibility that the outcome of this war could come down to that!

Fully verified by channel 4 with the help of a consultant looking at the discarded casings of them posted on the net in Ukraine.

Just watched Channel 4 news for the first time since this War started. They are very definitely doing a much better analytical job than the BBC, who are focussing rather more on the “hearts and minds” element of warfare. Don’t get me wrong, I see where the BBC are going with their Comic Relief/Live Aid style approach which definitely appeals more to anyone wishing to avoid a conflict, but I am keen to hear actual news and analysis (good or bad) on the subject which Chanel 4 seem to be better at providing.

WOOdster

Certainly not going to argue with you on that, as far as i am concerns those incidences should be prosecuted too.
That being said it does not in any way excuse them being used in this instance

wOOdster, the reason we’re in the shit right we’re in globally right now is the proliferance of misinformation and peoples hidden agendas being glossed over. Shining a light on our own military indiscretions is a very valid exercise I would say, and might even help those of us for whom Global Warfare is a totally inconceivable concept to begin to understand what drives Putin to behave in the way that he does.

But two wrongs definitely don’t make a right!

Cluster Munitions only entered the treaty 15 years ago, so the UK usage was pre-ban and the UK committed to destroying their stockpile and cleaning areas where they were used, the use of them now in city environments is not a good thing, as they can leave a lot of unexploded ordnance in residential areas.

Again, China and Taiwan is a completely different thing, history alone can tell you the atrocities that have occurred in the last century due to that, so again, nothing to do with this current conflict.

The next day or two is going to be so critical for Ukraine, and the people of Russia, i really hope that sense prevails at some point, honestly, in this day and age we laugh at the thought of repeating horrific history, like Nazi Germany, but this conflict has really made me understand we’re not really any better 80 years on :o(

I was in sofia in 1990, it was dire.
Empty shops with nothing on the shelves but boxes thst used to contain say cornflakes, but were empty.
Beggars everywhere, kids high as kites with glue bags and no shoes constantly pestering you.
At one point a lorry pulled up and had a load of fruit in it. I hadnt seen any for a week so bought a dozen oranges.
In our hotel the cleaners took all The caps off our toothpaste and shower gel so we couldn’t take it home.
It was mega. It wasn’t really, but the coke and hookers were really Cheap

Seems like it really is kicking off tonight 😕

Kharkiv at this moment is under heavy MLRS shelling #Ukraine ?? https://t.co/4CBXHoaldT

— Israel Updates (@WW3updated) March 1, 2022

Same area different (much bloody closer!) view:

https://t.me/KharkivPolitics/6849

The manpower involved on both sides in Leningrad doesn’t make it a particularly useful comparison. The Germans started that siege with 750,000 men. The Russians have just invaded Ukraine as a whole with a total of around 200,000 available.

Further peace talks tomorrow.

I wonder what Angela Merkel would have made of the current situation. I know she and putin had a tense relationship, but she was one leader (along with macron) who tried to maintain a direct, albeit very strained, relationship with Moscow. I think putin had a great deal of respect for her, I reckon she may just have been able to reign him in. Maybe!

@agree, not sure if you meant this, but do you think the British government were not aware of the destruction and the lack of accuracy of those cluster bombs that we dropped?
Pretty sure neither the US or Russia have signed up to the treaty.
I agree with the rest of your post though.

I personally wouldn’t hold out hope of the actual Russian infantry surrendering. Maybe some of the less trained conscripts, but I don’t see it with the professional soldiers. Being in a war zone 100% focuses your thoughts on the job at hand, this includes thinking about your own safety and that of your colleagues. The officers and Senior NCO’s will be keeping a very close eye on the moral of the troops and ensuring they are completely focused.

The make up of the Russian army is complex because it has conscripts, contracted soldiers and a lot of corruption

Their capabilities are constrained by the corruption, radios seem to be an issue as do maps, the airforce doesn’t have many precision guided munitions and the pilots are under trained (looks like they are pulling them back from their Syrian operations to support). The conscripts weren’t told why they were there nor were the contracted soldiers, so they didn’t expect resistance on the ground. The artillery was constrained because of the cameras and this hollows out the heart of their doctrine. The radio situation means the command structure isn’t talking to the units and unit radio nets are open to intercept with a large effort going into that

Morale is everything, if the Ukrainians can keep the pressure on the Russian units will start to contract back in their efforts as they will feel the game is up. Some units will fight regardless such as the Chechen units but they are fighting the Azov Regiment units so it’s matching the less politically desirable units off against each other. I wouldn’t want to be a civilian in that area though as it will be horrific

I think there will be a tipping point when one side or the other collapses in terms of morale and will to fight, Putin will need to either “fall ill” or be removed by other means for it to be a “clean” end though.

Final thought, I don’t think a professional politician would have made some of the decisions the Ukrainian President has, the mass mobilization and arming of the population, staying in Kyiv and the mobile phone walkabouts, and stopping fighting age men from leaving the country are all decisions I can’t see a professional politician ever doing in a western European context other than probably Switzerland

@singletrackmind

Wow sounds different to how I remember it. Saying that I remember not being able to find a football for sale but the shops were full of everything else (or so I remember). I took home some Italia 90 glasses and some other football memorabilia.

I also stayed in Plovdiv and Golden Sands. What I remember that I thought was cool was loads of bonfires in the parks and cool looking teens everywhere.

not sure if you meant this, but do you think the British government were not aware of the destruction and the lack of accuracy of those cluster bombs that we dropped?

Everyone knew they weren’t precision, they were called “the grid square removal system”, they would land where you wanted (accurate) but the area they covered was huge so there would be the risk to things close by, the secondary risk was that the munitions themselves weren’t that reliable and would pose a lasting danger to all

In context no unguided indirect fire is accurate all the time, that’s why they spend a lot of time training observers. It’s also why we tend to use aircraft or drones these days

w00dster
Full Member
@agree, not sure if you meant this, but do you think the British government were not aware of the destruction and the lack of accuracy of those cluster bombs that we dropped?
Pretty sure neither the US or Russia have signed up to the treaty.
I agree with the rest of your post though.

No, i meant that Cluster Munitions were only banned in 2010, your article from 2003 is before that, the issue with cluster munitions wasn’t a lack of accuracy, they were an area weapon, so meant to disperse over an area, it was the performance might not be good, so several blinds would be left in an area, which is an issue with remnants of war.

Neither the US or Russia have signed up for it, but the use of cluster munitions in urban environments is seen as contravening the convention.