Ukraine

45% of Russian oil refineries have been attacked resulting in an 11% reduction in production- I hope they can keep it up.

Macron is obviously not the enemy but he’s not doing all of this through pure altruism, there remains an element of preparing his next career move too. A long as he fights the FN and supports Ukraine it’s a price that’s okay to pay.

It’s very similar to Boris Johnson’s support for Ukraine – that was opportunism to deflect away from the shitshow of a Govt he was running at the time.

As with all of these things it’s very nuanced and a 2 line forum response doesn’t quite capture the  situation we’re in.

You demand sources about French armaments deliveries and I provide them but you don’t like them because they’re French, I hope UK government data is good enough for you. As for your own sources, Timba, check out their history, bias and funding. Google is not always your friend. TF1 is part of the Bouygues group, it’s the most watched channel in France and Europe in terms of viewers.

I felt Boris’ support for Ukraine was one of his rare moments of sincerity.

Terminator will be next. Robot / AI killing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2024/03/21/ukraine-rolls-out-target-seeking-terminator-drones/amp/

I felt Boris’ support for Ukraine was one of his rare moments of sincerity.

It was pure opportunism and grifting as usual. He is a morally reprehensible individual with at best, dubious intentions. He has a 20+ year track record of this kind of behaviour.

Wel even in your bad faith view is true doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is only only one step down from the right things for the right reasons. Both being preferable to the wrong thing for the wrong reasons or wrong thing for the right reasons. :) Whether Boris, Rishi or Macron we’re a lot better off than most people on the planet.

Can you take take the off topic, argumentative bullshit to a different thread and leave this one alone please.

Ta.

I provide them but you don’t like them because they’re French

That’s incredibly condescending. I can’t form an opinion because “I suspect that I’m not the only one who isn’t fluent in French here”

I hope UK government data is good enough for you.

That’s also incredibly condescending. There’s some tomato/tomato going on because my info is also from the UK Government:

8/3/22 oil import announcement https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-phase-out-russian-oil-imports

1/1/2023 Russian gas imports prohibited https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-to-importers-2953-russia-import-sanctions/nti-2953-russia-import-sanctions

You troll away, I’m out

What you call off topic and argumentative, tthew, is crux of how the war is going to play out. It’s a propaganda war between those working to discredit those supporting Kiev and those supporting the leaders who are pro kiev. I rejoined the thread in response to some highly provocative post slagging of Macron who is one of the most vocal supporters of Kiev and France which is one of the major suppliers of critical military hardware.

Support for Kiev is at a low level in many of the countries providing aid of all sorts and most importantly military. In each case it’s populist politicians undermining support for Ukraine, populist politicians who we know have had ties to Russia over the years.

The FN/RN in France with their Russian bankers, Trump:

https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/editorials/inq2/trump-threat-russia-putin-ukraine-national-security-20240218.html

The AfD and FPÖ both Russia friendly

Orban the right wing authoritarian populist trying to block support from the EU

Wilders being typically right-wing populist and anti-Ukranian refugees in Holland

See a trend here, the right wing populists that appeal to the hard of thinking little (insert country here)ers are using the natural xenphobic tendancies of swathes of voters to undermine support for Ukraine. And as on this thread earlier today slag off other Ukraine-supporting-countries for whatever reason because anything goes in the xenophobia game. Macron, Scholz, Biden, Boris, Rishi… are under attack from those who would be happy to see Ukraine fall and yes I’m arguing, arguing against just that.

So thank you Macron for the Caesars, thank you UK for the Challengers, Israel for the air defence, Germany and Belgium for the Leopards etc. etc.

Who are the 7 likes? Russian bots?

I think that philosophically we agree but the details may not please everyone.

@Edukator – you appear have a hair trigger for anti-French sentiment but I don’t read it that way. I think most of us love France and the French (in their many varied forms, just like here) but some things don’t sit well. It’s the same with the UK govt too.

who would be happy to see Ukraine fall and yes I’m arguing, arguing against just that.

You actually think some in this thread want that? Really?

Now you’re trying to put words in my mouth, relapsed_mandalorin, using those inevitable putting words into other people’s mouths question marks, underhand STW dirty tricks department tactics #8. Read what I actually wrote, I listed some right-wing populist authoritarian political parties and leaders, they are whom I am saying would be happy to see Ukraine fall.

I haven’t seen anybody keen for the Ukraine to fall on this thread, though some would clearly like Macron and or France to fall. ;) Clear? and that’s a smiley right.

A little reminder: “united we stand, divided we fall”

I give up you’re seeing unicorns when the rest of us see old tired donkeys

Metaphor overload!

Please, not now.

Ahhh please everyone give it a rest!

I think most of us love France and the French (in their many varied forms, just like here)

I’m ambivalent, actually, but that’s a topic for another thread.

Who are the 7 likes? Russian bots?

Well it’s 16 now. Probably the regular posters and lurkers of this thread who don’t care about Macron’s ulterior motives, who loves France least or any of the other irrelevant to topic bollocks that’s been spouted on here the last couple of days.

I say this fully expecting my first ban here. Please **** off if you can’t keep to the thread subject.

Sounds like last night was a heavy one for ukraine and Russia chucked hundreds of drones and missles at them, damaging power supplies.  I thought russia was running out of missles?  If reports are right it chucked another 90 at ukraine last night….

Several gunmen have attacked a theatre in Moscow shooting into the audience https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-68642036

This type of incident has preceded counter-terrorism operations in the past and in 2002 was connected to the 2nd Chechen War

You mean a false flag operation? Indeed plenty of history and conspiracy theories for it in Russia. There will suddenly be lots of evidence linking it to Ukraine ‘fascists’ and supplying a pretext for some kind of escalation. I can’t see most of the world falling for it though, if that’s what it turns out to be. Ukraine has been consistent in it’s military targeting and knows it can’t engage in terrorism as it’d lose support. Either way it’s a grim turn of events…

Ukraine has been consistent in it’s military targeting and knows it can’t engage in terrorism as it’d lose support.

But those that are sympathetic to their cause would.  Besides, everyone can grow beards so not necessarily religious (or 2nd Chechen war) related because that does not make sense anymore in the current context.

plenty of history and conspiracy theories for it in Russia.

And by Putin in particular, the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings are (largely thanks a whistleblower called Alexander Litvinenko) now widely recognized as a false flag designed to consolidate Putin’s hold on power and justify the 2nd Chechan War.

The truth will come out in due course.

But those that are sympathetic to their cause would.  Besides, everyone can grow beards…

Screw this, I’m out again.

BBC has reported ISIS claims responsibility

The misguided ones strike again.

Not sure what they intend to achieve other than trying to drive a wedge into Russia.

Isis?

Bit left field. But… Russia has vetoed the ceasefire in Gaza which kinda helps the Isrealis to the detriment of Palestinians. Could it be Isis has done this in retaliation?

At least it makes it harder for Russia to claim it was Ukraine that did it.

Isis?

Yes, according to BBC.

 But… Russia has vetoed the ceasefire in Gaza which kinda helps the Isrealis to the detriment of Palestinians. Could it be Isis has done this in retaliation?

Possible.  That’s why they are the misguided ones.

At least it makes it harder for Russia to claim it was Ukraine that did it.

Everything is possible in war.

I thought it might be due to the Gaza vote but I’d assume such an attack would take longer than a few hours to enact?

If it was who said it was, I imagine they would have had a cell in place, it being more premeditated than reactionary?

I’m sure they’re are still plenty of pissed off Chechens in Russia.

From the Guardian….

Earlier this month, western countries led by the United States had issued terror warnings and told their citizens not to join public gatherings in Russia. On 8 March, the US embassy wrote it was “monitoring reports that extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow, to include concerts, and US citizens should be advised to avoid large gatherings over the next 48 hours”.

Surprising how much the Americans know. Also, does them putting that out there give Russia the chance to say it was the US?

Shitshow.

Reminds me that Kadyrov scumbag has been quiet of late. Like various pretenders and Putin acolytes he was all mouth at the start of this war.

I’m sure they’re are still plenty of pissed off Chechens in Russia.

Plenty of Chechens made their way to fight with the Taliban in Afghanistan. They were carrying plenty of experience and technical know-how that they cross decked to the local fighters.

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that some of those loyalties remain within the ranks of the Chechens.

It’ll be interesting to see where the reporting on this goes.

apparently USA had been warming Russia an ISIS attack was incoming for a while

Since November there has been "fairly specific" intelligence that ISIS-K wanted to carry out attacks in Russia, sources tell me, @NatashaBertrand, @jmhansler. US intelligence warned Russia about it. Unclear if that drove the Mar 7 embassy warning.

— Alex Marquardt (@MarquardtA) March 22, 2024

im sure the Gaza veto was coincidence, but the significance won’t have been lost, considering Russia’s involvement in Syria and beyond, im surprised that something like this hasn’t happened sooner

pretty remarkable that with the war in Ukraine russian security services weren’t looking for an attack on moscow, or maybe just blind to it.

Firstly, 60+ civilian deaths is horrendous and a tragedy.

The Putin’s utter disregard for human life, civilian and otherwise is well documented but we should resist the temptation to indulge in schadenfreude this was not a ‘good’ thing, it was an atrocity.

Russia’s security apparatus is usually mainly focused on domestic dissent from the various subjugated ethnic groups that compose the Russian Federation, for the last 2 years Ukraine has been taking up all their bandwidth so there’s been a lot of speculation that something along these lines would break out.

Kadyrov will have some awkward questions to answer as this attack almost certainly had support from his fiefdom.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/first-ukrainian-pilots-graduate-from-raf-flight-training

Off to the French next for what I imagine is more combat focussed aviation, then conversion to type on F-16. No word who is providing that element at this link.

Another oil refinery hit

I’m going to be brutally honest and it is another unnecessary tragedy, but I find myself lacking in sympathy given the track record of Russia globally. I’ll also add I’m not happy it happened, I’d rather, like a lot of things connected with Russia, it didn’t happen but here we are. The list of their incursion/invasions is prolific.

Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Afghanistan, Belarus, Chechnya, Crimea, Finland, Georgia, Germany, Latvia, Mongolia, Soviet invasion of Armenia

Everyone is calling it a terrorist tragedy and yet, Russia as a so called developed country but designated a terrorist state by some, is actively killing civilians in another country they invaded and Medvedev and others calling for the destruction of the country and population.  Then asking for sympathy or compassion. Post Kursk, I’m not expecting putin to have a big presence on this one either.

I can’t wait for Nebenzya to start bleating at the UN. And what will the Pope have to say?

“Firstly, 60+ civilian deaths is horrendous and a tragedy.

The Putin’s utter disregard for human life, civilian and otherwise is well documented but we should resist the temptation to indulge in schadenfreude this was not a ‘good’ thing, it was an atrocity.”

Absolutely, the world needs less othering. Russian people =! Russian State.

” I find myself lacking in sympathy given the track record of Russia globally. ”

Interesting, what are your thoughts on 9/11, 7/7, Manchester Arena, Bataclan and numerous other attacks? Did you find it hard to muster sympathy then?

On the why’s, probably more to do with Russian engagement in Syria than anything else. That Gaza vote is just a propoganda bonus.

I must admit that my first thoughts were ‘oh no, this will either be linked to Ukraine or Putin will successfully be able to pin it on them’.

Whilst it doesn’t reduce the horror of what happened, the geopolitical impact of this being am Islamist terror attack only makes Putins situation much, much harder.

The attack killed theatre goers in Moscow, these will be the families of Russia’s elites, he will not be able to ignore calls for massive reprisals, if he isn’t seen to act quickly  he will look weak in front of the Russia’s most influential people, the ones that tend to topple leaders and have done so in the past.

But what can he do when every asset Russia has is currently fully focused on Ukraine?

Dilemmas upon dilemmas

Could be a bit of a conundrum for the Putin regime, isn’t major drone supplier Iran, a major sponsor of these Islamic groups?

“Dilemmas upon dilemmas”

Poor bloke, the collective hearts bleed for him.