Ukraine

It’s probably total fantasy, but I’m hoping for internal rebellion in Russia prompted by the war and sanctions.

It’s only a matter of time surely.
Ruble crashing through the floor.
Interest rates going through the ceiling.
Visa and mastercard have stopped doing business with Russia.

mols – there are a few kremlinologists and putin-watchers commenting about his health; I posted a link to an interview with Fiona Hill a few days ago which I think is on pg59.
IF his health is declining I fear for him looking at an end of days attitude.

That is ballsy!!

Really.  That stuff gives even more hope than the Ukrainian resistance

It’s only a matter of time surely.
Ruble crashing through the floor.
Interest rates going through the ceiling.
Visa and mastercard have stopped doing business with Russia.

Near complete control of the media means that opinion polls in Russia show huge support for his actions.
Just introduced a mandatory 15 year sentence for people broadcasting ‘fake’ news about the non war in Ukraine
Sanctions are something he can spin as justifying what he’s doing and use to galvanise his support

His latest line through state media seems to be that Ukraine have succeeded in building a Nuclear Bomb, and have moved it to Lviv for safety. That seems to be creating a reason for some kind of nasty attack on Lviv, but I hope I’m wrong……

IF his health is declining I fear for him looking at an end of days attitude.

Hopefully that is the case, and also hopefully those around him don’t have terminal illnesses and if he wanted a slash and burn finale, they might be tempted to ‘dissuade’ him, having more to stick around for.

Near complete control of the media means that opinion polls in Russia show huge support for his actions.

It won’t matter when thier cards are canceled and they can’t pay thier rent’s or buy a pint of milk for less than a tenner.

Last I heard, cards originating from Russian banks will not be affected, unless they leave the country. Card-holders from other countries won’t be able to use their cards in Russia. Presumably more about online merchant services from abroad rather than trying to stop the population being able to buy stuff.

Sensible I guess, don’t alienate the common Russian who works for a living.

In the long game Russia is seriously screwed for this.
I just hope our fellow Europeans can winter the storm, as they’d be fools to think a country of racists like the UK will give a flying elephant, at least that is, until thier utility bills go up 200%.

Alexi Navalny is someone I have huge respect for

Hmmm…you might want to do a bit of reading…he’s possibly not the nicest person in the world….Amnesty aren’t impressed

The way we celebrate and glorify that conflict over here can only be seen as obscene by any of our European neighbours.

I don’t think you could be more wrong about how many Europeans (including Russians and for that matter Ukrainians) see the efforts of the Allied forces to liberate them from Hitler’s Nazis TBH. If it wasn’t for The US, for instance supplying the Russians with over 4000 Sherman tanks, or the 18,000 aircraft that they rec’d from allied factories the war on the Eastern front may have been completely different.

50 Sovietss died for every Briton for example

You do know why some of the reasons their deaths were so much higher than the UK’s though, right? nearly a million soldiers were executed as “convicts ” or “deserters” by the soviets themselves, Over two hundred thousand were shot after being court marshalled. While seven million Soviet civilians were killed,  in both the sieges of Leningrad and Stalingrad, Stalin refused to let civilians leave, and those that tried and were caught by Russian soldiers were summarily shot as traitors, and children who were found exchanging collecting water for bread with Germans soldiers were shot…

Alexi Navalny is someone I have huge respect for

Hmmm…you might want to do a bit of reading…he’s possibly not the nicest person in the world….Amnesty aren’t impressed

Oh dear, that is a shame, perhaps he’s not the ideal replacement for Putin then, but he does seem to be about the only person who’s galvanised any meaningful resistance to him.

I’m fairly clueless about Russian (or indeed, world) politics beyond the news headlines. Assuming revolution in Russia is possible, is there anyone who could spearhead it and hopefully head up a new, democratic Russia without turning into Putin MkII?

Assuming revolution in Russia is possible, is there anyone who could spearhead it and hopefully head up a new, democratic Russia without turning into Putin MkII?

Where’s Pussy Riot when you need ’em?

There doesn’t seem to be anyone obvious…Putin has effectively (or literally) killed off any meaningful opposition. It may be my bias but in these authoritarian countries, the people we think are going to be liberal saviours often turn out to be at least as bad as the authoritarian they replace…look at that woman in Myanmar for example.

Twodogs
Full Member
Alexi Navalny is someone I have huge respect for

Hmmm…you might want to do a bit of reading…he’s possibly not the nicest person in the world….Amnesty aren’t impressed

yeah he’s seems more than a bit iffy.

When he was growing up do you think it was in putin’s game plan that one day pretty much the entire world hoped he would have cancer?

That must be a life fail by any measure..

Where’s Pussy Riot when you need ’em?

Still in prison I think…?

Where’s Pussy Riot when you need ’em?

Funnily enough I was just thinking about them. At least some of them are still active – https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/pussy-riot-nadya-tolokonnikova-ukraine-nft-1235195900/

There is a lot of resistance in Russia (some of the bravery involved in the ongoing anti-war protests is huge) but it’s so ruthlessly put down.

Meanwhile in London – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60638289

50

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60640460

Fifty Ukrainians have been granted visas under a scheme for refugees with family links to the UK, the Home Office has announced.
It is about 1% of the 5,535 people who have applied since the programme launched 48 hours earlier.

Sir Keir Starmer has called for a senior parliamentary committee to investigate claims Boris Johnson pushed for a Russian-born businessman to get a peerage, despite security concerns.

Thanks Pjay.

All the sanctions I hear about are from Europe and the US, are the rest of the world doing similar? If not I’d assume Russia will just increase trading elsewhere and this will carry on for a very Long time.
Probably mssively over simplified everything.

Stop ascribing western values to Navalny. We may look at these things as negatives but Russia is a completely different culture. Just because he’s white doesn’t make him one of “us”.

Sometimes the “good guy” just has to be the “better guy”. You can’t change attitudes overnight.

What’s the fuss about Lebedev BTW? I thought he was fairly liberal.

@kelvin that’s shameful. Between aid being turned back at one side and refugees on the other this country is a **** disgrace.

Lebedev’s father is billionaire and ex-kgb.
Concern is that johnson allegedly pushed to over-ride concerns raised about the proposed peerage.
When it comes to lebedev, Private Eye is your essential guide.

Stop ascribing western values to Navalny. We may look at these things as negatives but Russia is a completely different culture. Just because he’s white doesn’t make him one of “us”.

What?

so, it seems Putin’s attempt to shut down social media and control the narrative isn’t working out too well for him.

Social nyet-work

Right now I’d settle for ANYBODY other than Putin in charge.

50

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60640460

Fifty Ukrainians have been granted visas under a scheme for refugees with family links to the UK, the Home Office has announced.
It is about 1% of the 5,535 people who have applied since the programme launched 48 hours earlier.

I’ll bet if you add in family members more conservative donors have left the country than that.

50

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60640460

Fifty Ukrainians have been granted visas under a scheme for refugees with family links to the UK, the Home Office has announced.
It is about 1% of the 5,535 people who have applied since the programme launched 48 hours earlier.

This is an absolute disgrace

This is an absolute disgrace

Indeed. It’s absolutely disgusting. But then again did you expect much more when he have such a despicable individual in charge of immigration?

Priti Patel? She comes across like a really nasty piece of work

If they are only processing 25 a day, that’s a worry.

Not as worrying as the fact that it’s taken so long to get any sort of scheme up and running, which is a national disgrace.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaxnyneL-J7/?utm_medium=copy_link

Interesting photo.

For those of you who aren’t plane nerds, this is an Su34. It’s US equivalent is perhaps an F15E. It’s a really sophisticated airplane filled to brim with equipment to drop very complex smart weapons that are pin-point accurate. The bombs hanging under the wings of this airplane aren’t smart weapons though, they’re just regular “dumb” bombs – the sorts of things they dropped in say; Korea or WW2. The interesting things are (in no particular order) why are the RF-AF not using smart weapons? It may be that they don’t have any, they used a shit metric tonne of them in Syria, they may have thought it wouldn’t be a problem that they didn’t have them ready for Ukraine. Dumb bombs are really really inaccurate – even when you use an airplane as good as the Su34. It makes the airplanes using them really vulnerable to ground fire – there are reports that this very airplane has already been shot down.

Inaccurate means bad news for anyone in the vicinity of a target. But slightly better news in that they might need more
bombs and perhaps more sorties to achieve the same aims.

@twodogs

My point is that whilst we may look the same, culturally we are worlds apart so trying to judge him against our values is not a productive use of our time. Problematic attitudes exist everywhere and whilst we in western societies are doing our best to be more liberal the same cannot be said throughout the world where many attitudes are culturally more conservative. The previously linked article from the Washington Post was actually quite good and explains it better than I can.

TL:DR whilst his opinions on certain matters are disgusting he should be viewed against his contemporaries rather than our own standards.

Some very crazy talk in this thread.
The UK is on its own in terms of European support, and our government are a bunch of chancers.. No one gives a Ross what boris says. The most important news is not for us any more, it’s the EU response that carries weight.

Stop thinking you are so important.

To use ‘smart’ bombs you also need a target pod – noticeably absent on that photo. They’re having to resort to low-level runs which takes them into range of shoulder-mounted weapons. Expect a lot of those weapons will be heading to the Polish Ukraine border.
I was reading somewhere that Ukrainians are deliberately targeting fuel bowsers as well as flooding low-level areas close to the convoy to make it more muddy.
Looks like the Americans are going to be swapping some F-16s for Migs and Sukhoi with the Polish Air Force and supplying the old jets to Ukraine.

I said very early on this thread that I think Putin is ill, maybe terminally, so doesn’t care. Hopefully those around him will come to their senses.
It seems the deal with the US regarding planes is a replacement of the current Polish stock with the new US models and the older ones ginen to Ukraine.
I’m frequently wrong.

Stop thinking you are so important

Tbf London is a prime destination for kleptocrat money laundering, we are incredibly influential, just not necessarily for the good