Ok, finally conceding that as I get older (& possibly fatter) it’s getting hard to keep up and I need to pull my socks up and train through the winter, if not all year round now.

Long story short, I bought a lovely Cannondale slate (from STW) to use at the weekends and put on a turbo trainer and hopefully use zwift, encouraged and motivated by weeksy’s thread.

Mate lends me his tacx bushido ? I buy a turbo tyre, then discover my slate isn’t QR, doh. It’s a bolt through axle. I stop and post on STW.

So as far as I can tell to get this all working, I either buy a 2nd hand road bike and stick that on the bushido and then buy my mates bushido thing. Or I bit the expensive bullet, but probably not that much more expensive and buy a direct trainer that will accept a bolt through which I hope is possible.

Or have I missed something and got this completely wrong.

What I don’t want to have to do is stick any of the mtbs on the trainer as that will likely annoy me, when at 6am on a Sunday morning, I’m removing them from the turbo, changing tyres etc.

All I really want to do is have the simplest setup to go down to the shed and train. If it’s any kind of faff and PITA I know I won’t bother. I’ve got a budget of circa 500.

What should I be looking for, as I’d really like to get a good setup now and not upgrade in 6 months etc.

Any help and advice from the STW massif would be very welcome.

i direct drive trainer should just about be in your budget, i spent just a little more on my kickr core and its worth every penny. id say defo go for it, the races on zwift are really good fun and the fitness gains are an added bonus.

There was a similar question on the Trainerroad forum, someone suggested these guys might supply a conversion kit

https://robertaxleproject.com/

Thanks @13thfloormonk Ill take a look at that

I’ve also seen this takes a bolt thru https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-xplova-noza-s-smart-trainer, but at 700 more cash than I want to splash.

The kicker core is 700 too https://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-kickr-core-smart-turbo-trainer

Are there any direct drive trainers that take bolt through axle at the 500 mark ?

The axle adapter kit is plus shipping, add that to the cost of the bushido and I’m only 150-200 off the cost of a direct drive new.

I think all the Elite direct drive turbos come with q/r and bolt thru adapters, my Direto certainly did.

I’ve got an Elite Direto and it’s not let me down in 12 months of near constant use.

You can get Tacx axles to suit.

Ran my Scott MTb with 12mm axle on it no bother.

Yep – just found that – https://tacx.com/product/e-thru-trainer-axle/

Just got to find out which one fits the cannondale 142×12. Looks like 3 of them could possibly be the right one.

I’ve got one of these: https://www.halfords.com/cycling/turbo-trainers/smart-turbo-trainers/elite-zumo-smart-interactive-turbo-trainer-244622.html

It’s been great (13 months use, 3/4 times per week); comes with bolt thru adapters.

I’ve got one of these: https://www.halfords.com/cycling/turbo-trainers/smart-turbo-trainers/elite-zumo-smart-interactive-turbo-trainer-244622.html

It’s been great (13 months use, 3/4 times per week); comes with bolt thru adapters.

That looks ideal. Not in stock anywhere near me.

I had a Elite Direto – made a lot of noise, replaced it with a kickr core which is much better/quieter. I just leave a bike set up on it, with a screen in front of it powered by a cheap office computer I got off ebay for 100 quid with an old SSD i had kicking around for zwift. Find I use it more if I arrange to do it with a mate and do a whatsapp video call through the session.

Looked at the kickr models and what the hell do you get for the extra 300 for the v5 over the core ? Is it worth it.

From memory….
Slightly more accurate, heavier flywheel, no spin down calibrating required, rubber feet to allow sideways movement, ethernet port or something….that no one is really sure is of much use. Oh ok YT DC Rainmaker and GP Llama both detail the upgrades.

Tbh, no, probably not worth the extra £300. That £300 can buy a lot of fans/ turbo table/ turbo mat/tablet etc etc if you feel the need to spend it.

Last bit of advice is be sharpish, second national lock down on the way combined with Winter means stock will be dwindling sharpish if not already. Oh, by from a local shop of possible, there is a vey real chance you’ll be sending it back at some point over the units warranty…. So buying from a local shop is less of a ballache than posting it imo.

The reliability aspect pretty much applies you any brand btw…. Though Wahoo does tend to have good CS and seems to have sorted their reliability issues now. Note that Tacx is now owned by garmin and garmin have taken over tech/warrenty support too…

EDIT: I’m bloody sure those Nozas were £200 cheaper only a few weeks back! They are not worth the same as the Core imo. That said, you might have to get what you can.

If you go for a wheel on trainer, the Kickr Snap is very reliable from my and others experience.

The Noza seems to suffer from over reporting watts on sprints if memory serves (around 10%) but will they bother to upgrade the firmware to sort it? Who knows. Does that error bother you, who knows? Wahoo keep on top of their firmware updates.

DC rainmaker is about to release his turbo buyer’s guide.

I have that elite zumo which I’d recommend, however I believe elite are consolidating their direct drive range down to two models and discontinuing the rest which may explain why it’s our of stock everywhere.

Think kickr core is supposed to be best bang for buck. Wahoo used to have refurbished ones for a hundred quid off.

thanks guys, there is a local bike store to me that has most models (not Halfrauds)

narrowed it down to a wahoo kickr core or Elite Suito Direct Drive FE-C Mag Turbo Trainer. Both in stock.

had a look at the specs and cannot really see what teh key differences are between the two. Some mention of core not transmitting cadence data ? and the core supports multiple bluetooth connections.

£50 quid in it and the elite comes with a cassette. Suppose the wahoo one will work with the hill climbing accessory – but I can’t really ever see me springing for that.

Looking to get one today.

^^ core transmits cadence data now after firmware update some time ago, good example of Wahoo supporting its trainers I suppose you could say.

Wahoo has a whole ecosystem thing going on with the linked smart fan/ Climb and computers etc. Might not be relevant now but good to have the options. I get that £50 isn’t chump change but personally, I’d still go Core.

Wahoo is kind of the “default” option for Zwift really. They have a lot of clout within the industry so Zwift/ Wahoo are on the ball if there are ever new incompatibilities or features that come along.

Bike-discount.de had the elite suito for 605€, but they’re out of stock at the moment, back in in November I think.

I just bought a zumo from Halfords and it seems great. I forgot about BC discount though and top cash back as I got giddy when the came back in stock about 2 weeks ago….

I bought an 11 speed sunrace cassette from wiggle for about 30 quid, but the more expensive elite ones come with a cassette.

Only bug I have with my Elite is that the calibration can be pretty iffy – mostly use the trainer with my windows laptop, however to do the spindown calibration I have to do it from my android phone – Elite confirmed this. As a result I don’t really bother with calibration as I only use the trainer in the house so temperature is pretty stable. If you are keeping your setup in a shed then perhaps you need to calibrate more frequently to account for temperature, so it could be an issue.

I also get ant+ dropouts on some software but not others, even with a usb extender cable to put the dongle right next to the trainer. Some reading suggests this could be interference from WiFi signals. This might not be unique to the Elite product, maybe same thing would happen with a Kickr.

Guess the only practical thing the suito has over the kickr core is it folds down nicely so you can shove it under the bed or in a cupboard, again might not matter if you keep it all in a shed.

Think I’d probably get the Kickr for the sake of £50 plus a cassette. If you want to use Zwift you’ll soon be shelling out £15-20 a month subscription anyway. Reckon the Kickr probably has better second hand value if you decide you’re not getting your money’s worth.

Don’t forget a riser block.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/10/the-smart-trainer-recommendations-guide-winter-2019-2020.html

Don’t forget a riser block.

Why do I need a riser block ?

With the wheel off trainers* it’ll lift your rear axle to higher than your front one is if you just have your tyre on the floor, thus you’ll be pointed downhill which puts a lot of weight through your hands and gooch. They’re only about £15, you might get away with a block of wood or a yellow pages or something though.

*extrapolating this from the trainer I have to all the rest.

I’ve made do with various combinations of hardback books and a sacrificial flattened cardboard box under the front tyre as a front riser for the last three years while using my Direto, you only need to raise the front by ~1″ to get a base similar to outdoors flat.

I might treat myself to a £5 PX riser with my next order (so they will at least double just after posting this reply), but I’m half contemplating the ~3 months old Elite Sterzo Smart riser with an rrp of ~£75, given I tend to use Zwift for most of my sessions and it adds another dimension to races with the different lines you can take compared to the standard line.

Damn, thanks to my home network completely cr*pping out, the kickr core is now out of stock, seemingly everywhere.

Ok, but p*ssed off this morning re getting a smart trainer of any bloody description. There’s some elites around, or I blow a significantly huge chunk of change on a tacx neo or similar.

I can only do this by rationalising this by not getting a zwift subscription.

So STW is a smart trainer good to use without zwift etc ? Can they record direct to Strava without zwift, trainer road etc. As I’ll happily run it like this to offset the extra outlay thanks to not doing this before lockdown#2.

You can’t record your data to strava, so you’ll need to use a third party app or head unit that enables Bluetooth or ant+ recording.

If you just want to record power and data you may be better served getting a decent dumb trainer and a power meter.

A smart trainer will give you ERG mode but that isn’t much use unless you are following a structured workout or having the resistance altered by zwift etc

Blast. Could I use my garmin watch I wonder ? I’ve got a Vico active 4, suspect I need a Fenix or forerunner to do that. As the Vivo active series don’t usually have the same features as the more “pro” models.

contemplating the ~3 months old Elite Sterzo Smart riser with an rrp of ~£75, given I tend to use Zwift for most of my sessions and it adds another dimension to races with the different lines you can take compared to the standard line.

Isn’t that still disabled in races by Zwift, for fairness?

@walowiz

So STW is a smart trainer good to use without zwift etc ?

I’ll answer that in the sense of, “will I still be using it (the turbo) 6 months from now without zwift?”

Purely my own opinion here! My Core with attached bike would be a clothes hanger by now without Zwift (or similar)…..

I haven’t been on Zwift for weeks due to injury and I miss it. Let’s say that again, I miss riding a turbo trainer!

@poopscoop

Thanks, reckon you might be right on the clothes horse thang.

As every retailer has sold out of every smart trainer on the market, I’ve bought the axle adapters for the tacx bushido and an ant Bluetooth bridge to get some training in.

After which I’m buying a wahoo kickr core, as soon as they are available and as advised here – from a local retailer.

Woohoo !!

Got an email from my local LBS that the kickr core was back in stock, ordered and paid in 15 seconds. Can’t wait, as the weather was rubbish today when out on the gravel bike.

Off to find some thick books to wedge under the front wheel.

and an old desk or something to put an old pc or tablet on. Or does anyone know of one that I can buy from fleabay ?

kickr core doesn’t really need a riser up front.

@mrhoppy that’s good to know.

@walowiz

You might want to raise the wheel, depends on wheel size as unlike the Kickr, it is not height adjustable for wheel size. mrhoppy isn’t wrong, it’s just you *might* need to raise the wheel. Use a level app on your phone and see if seat angle changes when bike is on trainer.

I put a lot of stuff on my table.lol Various junk. Oh, an empty dettol spray bottle, rinsed out and part filled with cold water (keep the bottle in the fridge, along with water bottle…) is great to spray on your face during racing! It’s heaven. That’s one of the things I keep on the table.

I got a cheap table from ebay but put a bigger bit of wood on top to make it larger, wood from home base,standard size they sell. The table has adjustable height, cheap and effective.

Don’t get the official Wahoo table…. “Cheap” (still £90 ish I think?) knockoffs are available from Lifeline etc.

This table was a fiver cheaper when I got it. It’s generic, loads of sellers, sell it on there so might be cheaper from another one. The standard size top might be fine for you too, it’s just I have lots on mine.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Notebook-Desk-Adjustable-Portable-Laptop-Table-Trolley-Sofa-Bed-Tray-Computer-UK/223730465427?pageci=817fd069-b325-4673-9009-0527a34f50b6

@poopscoop is there anything else requests to get the data from the kickr to the laptop (Bluetooth) ? Does this setup need a ant / Bluetooth bridge.

Or am I good to go?

@walowiz

Not 100% sure what you mean matey?

However, on my set up I have:

PC with cheap ebay/Amazon ANT+ dongle (on lead to place it right next to turbo) plus BT dongle, ONLY for a BT kb on table in front of me. I basically only use ANT+ with Zwift. Make sure the ANT+ dongle is as close to the turbo as possible to negate dropouts.

Cheap HR monitor connected to Zwift/pc via ANT+

Cheap cadence sensor* on crank connected to PC/Zwift via ANT+

Android tablet on table running the companion app.

(In an emergency, the Core, HR monitor and cadence all connect to my Android tablet via BT no problem at all to run the main Zwift app itself. Handy if your PC has a brain fart just before a race.😁)

* Optional as I already had it on the bike, could be more accurate than the Core “in theory” as Core estimates it (cadence) from your pedal stroke power but in all honestly, the Core is fine for this too.👍

It’s tidier since this was taken… Though wallpaper is the same.😁 Fans, don’t forget fans.

Cheers @poopscoop that setup looks good and well thought out. 3 fans !

Blimey I don’t have half of that gear ! My plan is to stick a windows 10 laptop with Bluetooth 4 and connect that to the kickr and well that was as far as I got. I thought I didn’t need an ant+ dongle for this.
I’d planned to run Zwift or trainer road on the laptop, looks like people run the app on a separate device.

Fans I’ll order from Amazon, already have the mat. And maybe something to protect the bike frame from sweat.

It’s the HR data that I’m unclear on how to get that to the ride. All I use at the moment is my Garmin watch – Vico active 4, not a fenix, so I guess options are a little more limited.

For a fan have a look at the Cleva Vacmaster – https://www.cleva-uk.com/products/vacmaster-air-mover Got talked about so much on the Trainerroad forums they had a run on them and ran out – hence the copy about using it for training!

Using the promo code TRAINERROAD10 will get you 10% off but apparently GS10 will get you £10 off so use whichever is still in operation.

@whitestone thanks, bought one using code GS10 with a tenner off.

It’s pretty powerful – unless I’m doing VO2max intervals with very little recovery between them (i.e. max power for one minute then thirty seconds rest and repeat) I’ll have it on the middle setting.

@walowiz

Blimey I don’t have half of that gear ! My plan is to stick a windows 10 laptop with Bluetooth 4 and connect that to the kickr and well that was as far as I got.

That should be fine mate. Ive just done it a different way is all and had longer to set up. Worth getting a HR monitor for Zwift racing as you’ll be excluded from some race results without one. You can get stuff like that as you go along though. PC, turbo and fan and you’ve got enough to get going. Enjoy!

You need a bluetooth (or ANT+) dongle for Turbo trainers to connect with laptops \ PCs. No additional connection bits required to connect with iOS or Android devices.

The best bits of additional kit I’ve bought are this

and an Alexa \ google enabled plug such as

I supplement a quieter fan with this setup which I can turn on\off via Alexa voice control for when big efforts are required. It generates a major cooling effect which would freeze you if on 100% of the time (apart from Tues night races when it’s on 100% of the time 🙂 )