dragon – Member

If teaching is such a terrible job how come there are nearly 0.5 million people employed as teachers and another 200k as teaching assistants?

Ah right, so you’re not allowed to defend your terms and conditions unless your job is already so awful that absolutely nobody wants to do it?

If teaching is such a terrible job how come there are nearly 0.5 million people employed as teachers and another 200k as teaching assistants? And further how come the number of teachers grew by nearly 8% betw

how come 40% of new teachers leave the profession within five years. How come we cant get enough staff in our science department. How come when they head asks me what a candidates teaching was like on interview and I say they are shite they still get the job. How come most of the trainee teachers I see are low quality graduates who obviously lack the potential but univerities still pass them? And dont even get me started on some of the ex armed forces people who have been pushed into teaching.

how come 40% of new teachers leave the profession within five years.

I seriously considered becoming a teacher a few years back. Then I saw what it did to my brother-in-law and a couple of mates and I consider myself very lucky that I never went down that road. From what I’ve seen it’s horrific, and not something you take on unless you have massive stamina and mental strength (when it comes to work, I have neither!). Also my dad is a community governor of the local primary school. He grew up in a working class (mining) background and has had his fair share of ‘hard’ jobs, and he tells me that he’s never seen people work as hard as teachers do these days.

On the NUT website, three main issues are highlighted:
* Excessive workload and bureaucracy
* Performance related pay
* Unfair pension changes

Having not seen much press before this strike, can someone elaborate on what those points actually cover?[/quote]

The NUT do, on the webpage linked from the post where you copied the list.

why not pitch how they propose to add value and improve service in return for it, i.e “We will commit as a union to get our members to raise pass grades (or some other KPI, independently verified) by X% by date X. In return, we would like you to commit to us that you will then maintain current pensions and holidays, as well as offering a bonus on achievement of the KPI”.

Unrealistic and unachievable targets have already been set by the (ultimate) employer, who wants all schools to be above average.

Ultimately, the achievement is an artificial and manipulated figure, so it’s impossible to make improvements while changes are being made to deliberately reduce pass rates.

striking isn’t the answer, not if you want to be regarded as a ‘Profession’

Teachers should behave like barristers, rather than striking.

I guess my opinion, forged from a generation of teachers who had had other vocations forced upon them prior to entering the profession (being called up to fight Wars and the like) and who quite often had other jobs outside of schools during holiday periods so were better versed with what goes on outside of the education system. This opposed to by and large what we have now which are poorly experienced and not much better educated kids going into the system, coming out the other side to perpetuate that limitation upon others.

This often trotted out, but bears no relation to my experiences. Of the five of us in my office, five of us have had jobs prior to teaching. About half the people on my primary teacher training course were mature students.

Unrealistic and unachievable targets have already been set by the (ultimate) employer, who wants all schools to be above average.

Unsure why it’s “Unrealistic and unachievable” to aspire to this?

My sales team generated just over 2 million last year. This year my boss wants 2.5 million. It will be hard work, we have said that if he wants the 20% increase, we want an incentive to be paid on achievement of that KPI.

I don’t see the difference.

bikebouy – Member

Genuinely surprised that you lot haven’t gobbled together and issued a “global” invoice for a fine for Teachers for not turning up at work without a Genuine reason.

Quite why no one hasn’t thought of this is quite beyond me.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=205&t=1388064&mid=42279&nmt=Sons+school+on+strike+during+term+time%2C+can+i+fine+them+%3F

Unsure why it’s “Unrealistic and unachievable” to aspire to this?

Well hopefully most teachers would understand why it is impossible for all schools to be above average.

Unsure why it’s “Unrealistic and unachievable” to aspire to this?

well exam boards are currently under pressure to lower pass rates because pass rates have been improving for a long time.
I am also not sure that this dumbing down of a levels is real. A level biology is much harder now than when I was doing them 22 years ago.

Unsure why it’s “Unrealistic and unachievable” to aspire to this?

Neither is Michael Gove.

In order for you to meet your new sales target, I want 85% of your team to sell more than the average member of your team.

The ofsted report for my school states that by this July “all teachers in the school should be at least as good as the best teacher in the school.”

The ofsted report for my school states that by this July “all teachers in the school should be at least as good as the best teacher in the school.”

Hopefully, they meant as good as the current best teacher is currently, but one can never be sure…

However its meant its not going to happen.

I am also not sure that this dumbing down of a levels is real. A level biology is much harder now than when I was doing them 22 years ago.

I think the only difference in ‘easiness’ is the modular exams and the opportunity for resits. Content-wise, A level physics is as hard or harder then when I took it in 1995, which was the last non-modular year.

However its meant its not going to happen.

Have you considered sabotaging the lessons of the best teacher to make him worse? This will also help if performance-related pay comes in.

My sales team generated just over 2 million last year. This year my boss wants 2.5 million. It will be hard work, we have said that if he wants the 20% increase, we want an incentive to be paid on achievement of that KPI.

I don’t see the difference.

I suspect that you probably don’t.

How many of the widgets that you sell have parents who attempt suicide? How many have to return to Nepal for a fortnight in the middle of some coursework? How many have dads who have heart attacks? How many are made homeless, or have sewage running down the wall of their house? How many are thrown out of their homes because they’re gay?

Neither is Michael Gove.

In order for you to meet your new sales target, I want 85% of your team to sell more than the average member of your team.

He didn’t say he wants all schools to be better than average, this is just a lazy analysis of an answer he gave to a question based on the wrong premise.

He didn’t say he wants all schools to be better than average, this is just a lazy analysis of an answer he gave to a question based on the wrong premise.

He wants all schools to be good. A school can only be good if it exceeds the national average.

Unsure why it’s “Unrealistic and unachievable” to aspire to this?

My sales team generated just over 2 million last year. This year my boss wants 2.5 million. It will be hard work, we have said that if he wants the 20% increase, we want an incentive to be paid on achievement of that KPI.

I don’t see the difference.

The difference is that sales is a piece of piss. Teaching isn’t.

I could go into the nuts and bolts of this; economics, social stratification, divergent pedagogy, etc. But frankly, there’s no point.

Come and spend a day at my school and see what you think. Serious offer to all that doubt whether teachers earn their crust.

Signed, an Assistant Head teacher in an SEN school.

Where you based Bullheart I’ve always fancied working in a SEN school?

I think the only difference in ‘easiness’ is the modular exams and the opportunity for resits. Content-wise, A level physics is as hard or harder then when I took it in 1995, which was the last non-modular year.

and surely modular exams a resits drive up standards as if you fail to reach a C and get a D you work hard resit and get a C surely this is a good thing?

I did my A levels in 1992 so I’m 3 years cleverer than you!!

@mefty, the exact transcript is available:

Chair: One is: if “good” requires pupil performance to exceed the national average, and if all schools must be good, how is this mathematically possible?

Michael Gove: By getting better all the time.

Chair: So it is possible, is it?

Michael Gove: It is possible to get better all the time.

Chair: Were you better at literacy than numeracy, Secretary of State?

Michael Gove: I cannot remember.

Kent, near T/Wells.

Pop down for the day and I’ll show you around. What’s your specialism? We’re looking for middle leaders in the core subjects from September…

I did my A levels in 1995 and 1996 so must be doubly clever 🙂

@mefty, the exact transcript is available:

I know I read it before posting, the premise of the question is wrong – you don’t need to be above average to have a good rating as far as I can fathom – happy to be proved wrong, but only primary sources accepted.

Too far away for me but its certainly something I would like to look at one day.

So you think the question was wrong and he just doesn’t understand his own policies? That’s worse surely?

If you read the full transcript you will find that this was a “twitter” inspired “quick fire” round of questioning, I think he did his best to answer a silly question in the spirit of that.

bullheart – Member
Kent, near T/Wells.

May i briefly interject to say how pleased I am to see you’re still about, last time I spent any deal of time here you had a battle on your hands. I didn’t realise you taught either. Either way, a pleasant surprise.

May i briefly interject to say how pleased I am to see you’re still about, last time I spent any deal of time here you had a battle on your hands. I didn’t realise you taught either. Either way, a pleasant surprise.

Thanks muchly Mr Fish. It would have been churlish to vacate the premises, so to speak. My wife would have been fairly difficult about it, had I done so….

bullheart – Member
It would have been churlish to vacate the premises, so to speak. My wife would have been fairly difficult about it, had I done so….

Indeed, I hope the prognosis is for a long and happy marriage… 😉