Has anyone else been tempted? I’ve wanted a Pinion hardtail for a while, had a go on 18 Bikes demo just before the price shot up over £3k looked at Travers, Olsen and Nicolai but all £3k or more. Then this comes along for £2k and I couldn’t hand my money over fast enough.

Total bargain I think…..or would anyone like to tell me I’m making a big mistake? Honestly I think you will struggle to dampen my enthusiasm just now, I even bought a t-shirt with Sick! on it 🙂

I love it. Keep updating the build progress 🙂

Disconcertingly cheap given the price of the pinion box (isn’t it about £1200?) and the fact that its a Ti frame isn’t it? That said if it all goes pear shaped you can at least bolt the gearbox to an 18 bikes / Olsen etc frame.

Out of interest do Pinion just put the dimensions of the mount plate out there for all manufacturers to build onto should they so wish?

Anyway, good luck. I’d like a Pinion bike at some point but I think I would be talking to BTR. On the plus side I think, based on a throwaway comment on pinkbike, there is a trigger shifter coming for it soon as well.

That looks like a cracking bike. If you want a 150mm HT and that the size/geometry you want, just buy it.

If you want something custom you could check out Mi-Tech.de. I got a custom pinion HT made by them for about $2k earlier this year.

Cool. How were Sick to deal with? I chatted to them a bit when they were ding their initial kicstarter, and they were a mess, couldn’t get straight answers or proper measurements from them (they had different reach measurements for seat up or seat down, etc), every answer was just “we do our own thing man, we dont wnat to be Trek”. Was genuinlely interested in the frame, but was totally put off by them.

Frame looks pretty interesting, will be keen to see how it ends up.

I did for a moment think is it too cheap to be true but the new C1.12 boxes are cheaper (though I don’t know exactly how much) than the original aluminium cased P1.12 was. A basic Ti frame with 44mm headtube etc can be under £1k (seen Kingdom doing just that recently) so the price isn’t impossible. I doubt the margin is huge but the price isn’t outside the realms of reason.

Looking at Pinion’s site you have to sign up to be a dealer or manufacturer, no idea what hoops have to be jumped through once you apply though.

Hope to have it early 2018 and if I don’t at least I live close enough to go banging on their door pestering 🙂

the frame is interesting but the company are “interesting” so I’d be wary of buying anything significant from them.

will be keen to see how it ends up

Me too! Have to admit the varying and sometimes lacking information made me shy away from their kickstarter. If the measurements published for this frame are correct then it will suit what I want and I’m sure the construction will be sound. Safe to say I won’t be buying any components until I have the frame to check actual sizes etc

I don’t know the guys behind Sick but they seem sound from what I read, see online and hear from others. They probably know a bit more than it sometimes appears and maybe don’t appreciate just how much fine detail online geeks expect. I’d like to know every dimension but in reality I won’t know whether I like it until I ride it.

I’d be wary of buying anything significant from them.

A gamble for sure. I think it will pay off.

he company are “interesting” so I’d be wary of buying anything significant from them.

That was my concern when I saw them on Kickstarter.
A hipster brand coming out of no where with an ill detailed Kickstarter campaign that failed to secure funding. They then come out with a more complex frame concept (those full susers) and graduated to value Ti pinion frames. Seems a confused brand with no real direction or pedigree.
I do like the geometries and effort, but I feel they need to start simple, i.e. their initial steel HT frame offerings, before diversifying.

Anwyay, rant over. Bike looks cool on paper with a good price. Hope it materialises for you and look forward to your build and reviews.

If you want something custom you could check out Mi-Tech.de. I got a custom pinion HT made by them for about $2k earlier this year.

Coming back to this, was that price including the gearbox? Don’t really need custom as I’m rather average but that is an excellent price for something bespoke

A hipster brand coming out of no where with an ill detailed Kickstarter campaign that failed to secure funding. They then come out with a more complex frame concept (those full susers) and graduated to value Ti pinion frames. Seems a confused brand with no real direction or pedigree.

I would agree with this, but then they’d dismiss me as an internet hater who’s just too square to understand their rad-ness.

Which may be true but still makes them look like wannabes, just IMO.

That was my concern when I saw them on Kickstarter.
A hipster brand coming out of no where with an ill detailed Kickstarter campaign that failed to secure funding. They then come out with a more complex frame concept (those full susers) and graduated to value Ti pinion frames. Seems a confused brand with no real direction or pedigree.
I do like the geometries and effort, but I feel they need to start simple, i.e. their initial steel HT frame offerings, before diversifying

That would be my concern. Every week there is a new latest and greatest, constantly revising designs, ideas, features, specifications etc. The full suspension bike idea seems to have been ditched already, now a load more HT designs. It’s all a bit Dory from Finding Nemo.

It just gives the impression of endlessly winging it, which may be their exact plan. But winging it only gets you so far before it all goes wrong.

But hey, what do I know, I work for one of the industry heavyweights, exactly not what they want to be, or achieve.

I would agree with this, but then they’d dismiss me as an internet hater who’s just too square to understand their rad-ness.

And this is the crux of it all – the subtle irony of hating on what they feel a hater is. Small platform, loud voice.

Rubber_Buccaneer – Member

They probably know a bit more than it sometimes appears and maybe don’t appreciate just how much fine detail online geeks expect

chakaping – Member

they’d dismiss me as an internet hater who’s just too square to understand their rad-ness.

My experience exactly. And that detail is vital, because their prices and niche-ness mean geeky types liek us are exactl their market.

Just been on their website.

Self proclaimed “Leaders of the new school” – in sock and t-shirt design by the looks.

Er, guess I’m the only one who put his money on the table then 🙂 At least it wasn’t PayPal gift 😀

To be fair, they do seem to be riding the living hell out of their prototypes, so the frames should at least be solid.

” answer was just “we do our own thing man, we dont want to be Trek.. “

Chuckle… I imagine they’re great guys, and they are LITERALLY jsut round the corner from where I live… But it’s not like we’re talking about some £4 stickers or a cap here…
This is a pricey (even IF it’s good value) item.. you want some reassurance you’re dealing with professionals when it comes to handing over money.
People were concerned by some of their comments on returns and refunds… They seem a bit ‘rock and roll’ with regards to some answers on their facebook page…

DrP

Their new Ti frames do look bloody good value but I’m just not sure.

If you don’t get excited about their stff you’re just a hater / boring so-and-so yet the exact details seem to be thin on the ground. They’re certainly don’t do the full on geek out responses (chaps like Dan Stanton know their bikes inside out and can chat about tube thicknesses etc).

As mentioned by others, they seem to chop and change stuff dead quickly. Fair play to them, bit I’d like to see them deliver something simple and get it to market, reviewed etc. That then becomes a foundation to launch other stuff form.

I wouldn’t spend that much buying something from a website that looked like that. What are they anyways, a bike company or a clothing company? Look amateurish as ****.

If it had been steel I would have been very tempted.
I dont trust ti

I just can’t get over the really, really shit looking font they’ve used for the decals. Quite an achievement to make titanium look so cheap.

isn’t it about £1200?

No the actual retail is trade price is 599 quid for the gearbox with 1i speeds.

Their full suss was a prototype which I believe they are revising. Was never available to buy. Don’t see why that’s an issue to anyone? Loads of others have prototypes for ages before releasing them.

Their 2017 batch of hardtails sold out and they are revising plans for 2018s before opening order book according to facebook.

They have a team for 2018 which I assume is for enduros. They’re certainly going for it in terms of increasing the brand and scope.

Agree details need to be known but think some of this negativity was with the initial kick-starter prototype and lack of detailing. They revised and listed all measurements soon after so you could read up on it all. And satisfy your inner bike geek on numbers.

All the geometry is up for the pinion frame. The 870 quid grizzly Wolf looks great value to me.

Ti frame. Peel decals off as assume won’t be clear coated?

They know their geometry and have a clear idea, whether it’s for you is another thing.

I’d buy that frame and as Coomber says the grizzly wolf looks impressive.

Not for me for 2 reasons. I know someone who ordered one of their Ti frames and didn’t get a frame with the geometry he expected, which I think is unforgivable. Also, I’ve seen how one of the guys who runs the company speaks to people on social media, and I wouldn’t give him my money. Personally I don’t like the look of their frames, but each to their own.

Oh I’m with gottama, a btr / Curtiss build with pinion gearbox.
Will watch this thread with interest thoughas be good to see it being built.

I’m with gottama, a btr / Curtiss build with pinion gearbox.

I wouldn’t say no but you are going to be in a different price bracket. A BTR would sure be nice…

Yeah im sure it would be, oh but i reckon it be worth it eh! One day i will sell both bikes and go that route. When funds/wife allow!

Shame it’s not belt drive compatible as well but guess you can’t accommodate the whole of the market all at the same time as it’d cost too much.

I have to say I love their enthusiasm and the way they’ve (seemingly) hit the ground running in building a real buzz about the brand and are developing & selling? lots of product.

I follow them on Insta and they’re pretty full on with 4-5 posts a day which is wearing a little thin but it’s obviously working for them in building a rapport with the customer. I do feel they’re worth watching for the future as they’re not afraid to experiment, even do it very much in the public eye and they’re not afraid to get things wrong. Some great stuff could well come from this and it’ll be fun to watch.
I do think they could do with slightly thicker skins and be a little less “butt-hurt” when they get criticism as even those who don’t necessarily package it in the most constructive way (the girls bike comments on the Gnarsisist and the basket photoshopped on the front as cases in point) have some validity. They’ve now discouraged a huge amount of negative feedback which was actually constructive if you choose to take it that way. I’ve been doing something similar in the BMX world and understand that not everyone will like it and I readily accept that. Do I worry about those that don’t like it? No, but it does all go in the pot and inform what I do in the future. I don’t take anything anyone says on the internet personally as it’s a strange medium.

The Gnarsisist, I really didn’t like at all (stupid long and too low – both practically and aesthetically) but these look great and if I was in the market for a hardtail they’d be on the list for consideration. Best of luck to them. I might even buy a donut tee ;o)

Shame it’s not belt drive compatible as well

Allegedly there will be a ‘Gates Splitter’ on the gearbox version. Hope that turns out to be the case as although I intend to run a chain it’s nice to have the choice.

The Gnarsisist, I really didn’t like at all (stupid long and too low – both practically and aesthetically)

Sort of agree. Thought the seat tube was impractically short. I may see it at the weekend as I should be riding with someone who is hoping to borrow it from D&D Cycles. Perhaps in the flesh it will bring me around….especially if it’s quick

Mountain bike+cheap titanium+long travel forks; surely it won’t end well? Steel would probably have been a better choice for the frame material. Seems badly thought through.

titanium

Bike for life 😉

What scares me about buying something from them of this value is that you are essentially buying a prototype.

The frames have not been tested by Sick in the normal way expected before you sell a product, it is a tiny run of frames and if there is a problem what next? – from what they stated it’s even a new factory they have not dealt with before.

As a comparison, pipedream, Stanton, cotic etc all test prototypes before selling to customers, I mean who is doing the QC from the factory?

Aside from this you have two guys that have behaved very badly towards people online (slagging off people and sharing people they single out on instagram videos inc laughing at a guy who waited 3 months for a product) an seen to think that it’s completely fine to do so.

I don’t get ‘it’ – I don’t wish any animosity towards them but they need Bring some more professionalism into the mix before asking for second hand car money for a bicycle frame.

It’s all a bit Evil bikes (the first time round).

Aside from this you have two guys that have behaved very badly towards people online (slagging off people and sharing people they single out on instagram videos inc laughing at a guy who waited 3 months for a product) an seen to think that it’s completely fine to do so.

Well that’s not on really. It’s rare to see company owners slagging off customers. And it’s compounded by the fact they’ve got long hair, are covered in tattoos and are still dressed like it’s 2002. You can’t help but think you’d be dealing with a couple of adolescents, rather than business owners….

Doesn’t sound good, I’ve not seen anything like that

My thoughts before ordering were

The frames are made by competent people whether it is this Ti frame made in Taiwan or the steel frames made by Downland Cycles
The Pinion gearbox is a solid product
Sick have given the frame builders the geometry and the numbers look good to me

How far wrong can it go? In an absolute worst case scenario I will go whining to PayPal but I fully expect to be happily riding around on a fun bike with 12X1 gears

Proof of the pudding will be in the eating I guess

How far wrong can it go?

Eventually we may find out…..

I think RB is right in the assumption that a bike is a bike is a bike. The geometry is on the long/slack side of well proven and pretty much any company you can buy a run of Ti frames will know what they’re doing so most of the “prototyping” will be making sure it all hangs together ok and rides well. I very much doubt they’ve done anything daft with tube profiles or anything. I certainly wouldn’t treat it to any other crowd funding type thing.

Rubber_Buccaneer – Member 
Doesn’t sound good, I’ve not seen anything like that
My thoughts before ordering were
The frames are made by competent people whether it is this Ti frame made in Taiwan or the steel frames made by Downland Cycles
The Pinion gearbox is a solid product
Sick have given the frame builders the geometry and the numbers look good to me
How far wrong can it go? In an absolute worst case scenario I will go whining to PayPal but I fully expect to be happily riding around on a fun bike with 12X1 gears
Proof of the pudding will be in the eating I guess

The problem with that is how do you know the frame manufacturers in Taiwain are competent? (I don’t think that is an actual issue) The ‘issue’ here (if any, hopefully not) could be if they will deliver exactly what they are asked? – The usual process here is sending off for samples which are inspected and measured, tested and inevitably altered in some way or another before being signed off for production.

You are essentially receiving the sample here, Sick are very transparent and if they had received a sample of this frame we would all know about it.

There are so many small issues that could be there, cable routing, tyre clearance in reality, the interface between the gearbox and the frame, choice of tubing and if it is suitable for the type of geometry and riding.

£2000 is a bargain for a full TI frame and gearbox, but its an awful lot of money if it doesn’t ride well, isn’t made well, or there are some other issues all of which may be impossible to put right as the frame is made overseas and to specification – The UK stuff they make is the opposite and I am sure you would get great backup as they seem to be using good people there – Whining to paypal would be a terrible thing to have to go through, for them and you so hopefully you fall in love with it when you get it.

Again, I don’t wish the Sick guys any animosity, I find their approach quite refreshing but this method of selling bikes just doesn’t seem ‘right’ to me.