Sur-ron in the news

Sad times. Elgin and Elgin youth have been in the news too much recently what with the murder of the bus driver by a 15 year old. Some very bad decision making going on.

I know it's wrong to jump to conclusions, but when I saw the models of the cars involved, I couldn't help but wonder where any "blame" might lie.

Oh god that is terrible, three of them on a single Surron!

And I'm not sure I want to know how they managed to collide with four cars at the same time.

I know it’s wrong to jump to conclusions, but when I saw the models of the cars involved, I couldn’t help but wonder where any “blame” might lie.

a blue Vauxhall Mokka, a red Renault Clio, a black Vauxhall Corsa and a white VW Golf.

That's a fair spread of stereotypes from "given up with life" to "if I just car scene a bit harder I can still catch an STI off a teenager in my 30s".

Any time I see a youth on one of these things in Edinburgh I'm amazed there's not more fatalities. When you see them pulling wheelies on the wrong side of the road, weaving all over the place it's like they have a death wish.

I know it’s wrong to jump to conclusions, but when I saw the models of the cars involved, I couldn’t help but wonder where any “blame” might lie.

Nothing at all to do with being three-up on an illegal motorcycle then?

Terrible incident.

Whatever the underlying causes, it's a tragedy.

Can't help but wonder why the BBC story chose to leave out the word Sur-ron. Quite important to the story that the lads were on an illegal electric motorbike

I’ve put a complaint in regarding the poor use of terminology.
It’s so important parents and everyone knows these aren’t e-bikes and if their child or neighbour or friend has one, they may as well be racing around on an unregistered scrambler.

"Nothing at all to do with being three-up on an illegal motorcycle then?"

Even dickheads might actually be travelling correctly when hit by a negligent driver from time to time.

Can’t help but wonder why the BBC story chose to leave out the word Sur-ron. Quite important to the story that the lads were on an illegal electric motorbike

As a former news reporter, I can reassure you that nobody will have decided to leave any details about the Surron out.

The BBC will just be sharing the details that the police have provided.

Those details will have been transcribed by the press office, based on the incident report from the scene.

Ignorance rather than malice, basically.

As a former news reporter, 

I don't believe that - you seem to be able to spell and have the ability to construct a readable sentence! 

Even dickheads might actually be travelling correctly when hit by a negligent driver from time to time.

Yeah, I’m gonna go with no on that one. Not least because more than one pillion passenger is illegal, there’s also no way of a 14 year old legally riding anything on the road that can take a pillion.

There’s benefit of the doubt, and there’s roadmen on Surrons.

I don’t believe that – you seem to be able to spell and have the ability to construct a readable sentence! 

I was a sub-editor for more years than I was a reporter.

I don't think local news organisations have many of those any more, sadly.

they may as well be racing around on an unregistered scrambler.

Welcome to rural life

"hey may as well be racing around on an unregistered scrambler."

Only good thing about these bikes is the local youth have stopped trying to steal my MX bikes. But still two young people dead is a tragedy.

Took me a few reads to realise they were 3 up.

terrible tragedy.

Hopefully this gets reported accurately so other youngsters can be made aware of the dangers.

Welcome to rural life

Welcome to Swansea.

"The BBC will just be sharing the details that the police have provided."

Surely they've just nicked the story from the Scottish website??

45-50mph and no safety lid or any protective equipment. Any accident at those sorts of speeds are 50/50 to being fatal.

The driver of one of the cars, a 54-year-old man, was also seriously injured.

is who I feel sorry for the most.

Even dickheads might actually be travelling correctly when hit by a negligent driver from time to time.

A crash involving 4 cars? We don't know the details of course, but I think its more likely the 14 year old on an illegal bike with 2 passengers is probably the one responsible.

Can’t help but wonder why the BBC story chose to leave out the word Sur-ron. Quite important to the story that the lads were on an illegal electric motorbike

You may have also noticed the BBC news article chose not to mention the makes and models of the cars involved.
Nothing sinister, they just didn't want to name brands.

Reporting Scotland now calling it an electric bike and describing it as a Sur-on electric trail bike.

You may have also noticed the BBC news article chose not to mention the makes and models of the cars involved.
Nothing sinister, they just didn’t want to name brands.

The BBC have form for leaving out details that might lead people to invoke stereotypes or jump to conclusions, even when that information is pretty core to the context of the whole story. And also when those stereotypes and conclusions are very often accurate.

I presume they have editorial guidance to omit.

crewlie
Full Member
Reporting Scotland now calling it an electric bike and describing it as a Sur-on electric trail bike.

Did anyone else send them a message, or do I get to claim this one?

Nothing sinister, they just didn’t want to name brands.

Car brands is different. They are all still cars. Describing a Sur-ron as an ebike is a bit like calling a Typhoon Fighter (that takes off about 500m from this fatality) a "single seater light aircraft". Whilst in roughly the right ball park every reader will have an initially very skewed idea of the details.

Did anyone else send them a message, or do I get to claim this one?

I made a complaint to the BBC.

My only thoughts are with the injured legal road users and any pedestrians that could get injured or worse, I'm surprised there isn't more cases like this every week.
As for Sur-ron scrotes, play stupid games win stupid prizes, every single one I've seen has been a wrong un.

Some great humanist attitudes being shown on this thread.
I'm not enamored with ****s on electric motorbikes, but I'm also not a fan of families losing their kids as a result of teenagers doing the sort of stupid shit teenagers do.
And we don't even know the facts here, it's just stereotypes and assumptions. That's got a history of being a great idea, hasn't it? There'd be an awful lot of us not around if it weren't due to luck in teenage years I suspect. Have a ****ing word with yourselves. Some parents have lost their children

"but I think its more likely the 14 year old on an illegal bike with 2 passengers is probably the one responsible."

You're probably right, but its a good job neither of us are crash investigators.

Holy **** some of you are right nasty bastards.

You have no idea what happened and already it's the kids at fault. You're as bad as any anti-cyclist **** that cheers whenever one gets run over.

They could well have been overtaken by two shit boxes on a blind bend, first one hits oncoming car and second swerves into them to avoid.

You don't know anything so why don't you **** off with the conjecture until the facts are known.

As for "road men" **** off with that London shite.

Calm down dear

Fact is, the unfortunately lads were breaking at least one law, so they're not blameless.

Sad he hear of such a loss of life just for some cheap thrills. However nothing is new here other than the motorbike being powered by electric. Similar stories are found in the past of fearless young men dying when seeking a bit of fun. I'd say most member's on here have a story or two where they made a lucky escape from a moment madness when going through their teen years (me included).

RIP fellas, thoughts with your friends and families.

I’d say most member’s on here have a story or two where they made a lucky escape from a moment madness when going through their teen years (me included).

This is a very fair point. I did some daft stuff. Pretty sure the only person at risk was me - that's where it crosses the line imo.

45-50mph and no safety lid or any protective equipment. Any accident at those sorts of speeds are 50/50 to being fatal.

I've gone quicker than that in the Alps on a road bike and in lycra shorts and jersey (obviously I had my helmet on as I have to be safe - sarcasm alert!)

A national speed limit single carriage way has a higher top speed than that.

every single one I’ve seen has been a wrong un

Nice to know we still live in a society where being a wrong un is judged on the way you look.

Fact is, the unfortunately lads were breaking at least one law, so they’re not blameless.

They were kids doing the stupid shit kids do.  Part of driving a car responsibly is assuming kids are going to be out doing stupid shit.  Not that most drivers got that memo.

While I'm all for presumption of innocence, one Sur ron taking out 4 cars (all of which were being driven at the time) sounds like a bit of a magic bullet type scenario if we assume all four cars were 'just driving along'.

Yes, yes, war on motorist blah blah... but I wouldn't be too quick to jump to the conclusion that the only parties in the wrong here were on the Sur-ron.

is who I feel sorry for the most.

Interesting that you have concluded that this person was doing absolutely no wrong.  Maybe you've had different experiences of the average 54 year old male driver to me but I think I'll reserve judgment about who deserves the most sympathy until we at least have some information about the crash.

Do we know where they got the motorbike from?

Interesting that you have concluded that this person was doing absolutely no wrong.

what I’ve concluded is that the person riding 3 up on a Suron is definitely 100% doing something illegal.  The bloke in the SUV may have been but that is less likely. (Because it isn’t 100%)
As with all these cases you wonder how a 14 year old got hold of the bike & who bought it for him.

They were kids doing the stupid shit kids do

You've quoted me, but I'm really not sure how that makes them blameless. If they weren't out breaking the law, no-one would be dead.
Ah man, me and my brothers did some proper stupid shit in the 70s - plenty of fires, motorbikes, blades..etc could've resulted in death... my brother setting fire to a barn. If he'd died in there he wouldn't be blameless.
It's sad, but that's how it is.

The bloke in the SUV may have been but that is less likely.

It's the implied hierarchy of blame/sympathy I object to.

Middle aged bloke in an SUV who got injured.  Most likely a decent chap just driving along.

Three small hatchbacks.  Suspicious choice of cars suggest they may be boy racers but without any direct evidence yet they are given the benefit of the doubt.

Three teenagers on a Sur-ron.  Obvious bad-uns and almost certainly to blame (although we're struggling how they could take out 4 cars if all the other cars were 'just driving along', therefore why less benefit of doubt given to potential boy racers).

We know nothing at this point.  People jumping to conclusions about who deserves sympathy shows just how firmly entrenched car culture is.    Sure, these kids were doing something that was illegal.  I would be very surprised if the drivers involved have never done 31mph in a 30 zone.

"We know nothing at this point."

Local "understanding" (which is > than internet understanding but < actual fact) is that some of the folk in the some of the cars and the lads on the Sur-ron did actually know each other.......make if that what you will.

Aside from the bickering and conjecture - as a legit ebike manufacturer or retailer, how do you make sure your product isn't drawn into this by lazy language?

And edit - grrrr Android access to this site appears to have caused up quotes etc again.

And being Scotland I'm not sure the general public will ever get access to the formal inquiry. It seems it's not published in the same way as England and Wales. Someone with more knowledge can maybe add more. I was present at a fatality last year when a 23yr old died in a three car accident and thankfully only injured the people in the other cars when he tried an impossible overtake on a blind bend. The report on it seemingly never became public. Not quite sure how it works here.

They were kids doing the stupid shit kids do.

and errr….

It’s the implied hierarchy of blame/sympathy I object to.

Fact is, this is a tragedy. It makes me angry. There are hoards of bikes like these being used dangerously both on & off road and the potential for death & injury is high. The attitude of ‘it’s just kids being kids’ really pisses me off.

"It’s the implied hierarchy of blame/sympathy I object to."

This. I've been a motor claims manager in a previous life, assume nothing till you have all the facts.

The report on it seemingly never became public. Not quite sure how it works here.

I've made this point many times in regard to the A9. Being aware of the cause might help drivers avoid incidents in future. For instance, I was told that one reason for collisions at the Craggie junction, just south of Inverness, is that traffic exiting the B9154 can find it difficult to spot southbound A9 traffic due to the placement of a large road sign. As a result, I'm always that wee bit more cautious when approaching. I'd like to think that someone in authority was collating these issues in order to advise on road design changes but I see little evidence of this.

Anagallis I don't judge people on the way they look, that's a nonsensical conclusion, it's their reckless illegal behaviour I go off, check your self-righteousness.

I’d like to think that someone in authority was collating these issues in order to advise on road design changes but I see little evidence of this.

DfT were supposed to be setting up the Road Safety Investigation Branch but who knows if it’s actually happened.