- This topic has 51 replies, 32 voices, and was last updated 1 month ago by mmannerr.
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So today, I tried Flats for the first time ā¦ š¬
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hardtailonlyFull Member
Long time user of SPDs for all my riding. But bought some Nukeproof flat pedals in the CRC firesale, and some cheapish flats from Evans to try.
Iām wanting (I think) to use both, and be able to switch between them depending on what Iām riding.
But, what kind riding suits which pedals?
In my head, Iām thinking ājust riding alongā / XC type riding, to stick with SPDs. Also, rocky riding. But then, steeper off-piste stuff, and maybe jumpy stuff, use flats, so itās easier to stick out a foot, dab, tripod, bail if need be?
First ride today. I didnāt make my shins bleeds, so will take that as a win. But, I didnāt like it for jumps (Iām sure I need to change my technigue), and a few times, found my foot lifting unexpectedly off the pedal, eg climbing a technical section.
So, when should I ride flats/clips?
What do I need to learn/unlearn/do differently?
And any links to some good basic YouTube vids for flats-novices would help.
Ta.
sl2000Full MemberItās a big effort to change. I switched 4 years ago after 20 years riding only clips, and treated it a bit like giving up smoking ā so flats for all riding.
KramerFree MemberWhen I first went back to flats from clipless, I tried to bunny hop and jumped off the pedals and impaled myself on my stem. š
Anything that involves more skill than pedalling I use flats these days. So technical descents, jumping, steep stuff. The reason that I like them is that they give me immediate feedback in the same way that a hardtail does. ie if my foot position is wrong I bounce off the pedals rather than go over the bars.
convertFull MemberFirstly, you are probably putting your foot on the same place on the flat pedal you do when riding SPD ā try moving your foot forward a bit so the axle is across the sole on instep of your foot rather than nearer the balls of your toe like where your cleat is.
Secondly, on a skills day with Jedi, he had me sort my shin bashing issue in about 10 seconds by tipping my brake levers up a little! With the fingers up a little your wrists are pressed down a bit more so on little landings your wrists ābreakā and palms go down into the bike weighting your feet rather than your wrists rotation over the front of the bars followed by your body and unweighting your feet. Weighted feets donāt fall off pedals.
Lastly ā flats make you realise how crap/lazy your technique has got and how much you āliftā the bike up with your feet rather than preloading and timing little jumps and bumps.
KramerFree MemberFirstly, you are probably putting your foot on the same place on the flat pedal you do when riding SPD ā try moving your foot forward a bit so the axle is across the sole on instep of your foot rather than nearer the balls of your toe like where your cleat is.
I was going to say this too. Easier to put my heels down and ālockā myself to the bike.
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTRFull MemberI tend to switch as the mood takes me. At times Iāve ridden only clipped in for years.
Then Iāve spent time clipped in on the FS and flats for the HT to keep it playful.
When I got the big ebike I was convinced I needed to be clipped in to stay attached to such a big heavy lump. I found the torque when climbing techy sections (especially wet roots) often caused the back wheel to spin out and Iād be on the deck clipped in before I knew it ā so Iāve switched back to flats and will definitely stick to them for that bike (maybe just swapping them out for somewhere like BPW). Also donāt need the pedalling efficiency (albeit some say the pedalling efficiency associated with clips isnāt really a thing).
When I built the Big Al up, I stuck with my thinking of flats for the HT ā but it begs to be ridden hard and Iāve found that I feel way more confident on that clipped in. Only time Iād consider swapping them back now is maybe if I know we are going somewhere and sessioning steeps for the majority of a ride
NorthwindFull MemberIMO, all pedals are absolutely fine for pretty much anything. Maybe not best. but fine. But for pretty much any use, youāll feel less good on whatever pedal youāre less familiar with, so donāt jump to a conclusion too fast, youāve got to actually get decent at it and that can take a while. Just because you do it without thinking doesnāt mean itās not a skill after all. Iād definitely stick with easier riding initially, and yep be especially wary of jumps when going from spds to flats as the whole ājump with the bikeā skillset can be rusty.
Also, most people who only use one pedal type would benefit from swapping to the other for a bit and getting good at that too. Both pedal types teach you things and find different holes in your skills. Itās not that you canāt get as good on one pedal type, itās just, you probably wonāt.
franksinatraFull MemberI just put SPDs back on my bike today after trying flats for a couple of months. I just donāt like them or see any gains. Each to their own but flats are not for me.
alan1977Free MemberPretty much the only time I ride on flats now is on my road/commuter bike. Anything slightly rough Iāll stick to clips.
Going back to flats makes me slightly nervous nowadays must admit.. i definitely have picked up lazy habits in 18 months
sirromjFull MemberSo, when should I ride flats/clips?
Until youāre confident with flats, only ride with flats.
I stayed with flats and my SPDs are rusty now.
reeksyFull MemberI did the same, but once I was confident with flats I realised I still preferred SPDs so went back to them.
They are definitely easier for coaching though, so with that about to start up again I might swap back.
didnthurtFull MemberWhen you ride with flats, you need to compress into them before a jump, and allow the bike to come up with you. Youāll be used to just lifting the bike with your feet, this will take a while to unlearn/relearn.
Also riding in the saddle all the time will be a thing of the past, probably why flats and hardtails go so well together.
didnthurtFull MemberBeing able to swap between flats and clipless is ok now for me but took a while to get used to.
Even now, if Iām riding a certain bike with flats at the weekend, itās a good idea to have another ride in that setup a day or two before, ājust to get my eye inā
dyna-tiFull MemberFlats ? get shin pads. preferably ones similar to the hockey type.
The very very last thing you want is to get an infection in your shin from the crud thats out there..
convertFull MemberFlats ? get shin pads. preferably ones similar to the hockey type.
Or follow the advice I was given and passed above and your shin gashing woes will be solved with a tweak with an allen key. You can move your lever back after you have got into the habit of putting your hands in the right place.
nickcFull MemberBut bought some Nukeproof flat pedals in the CRC firesale, and some cheapish flats from Evans to try.
The key to flats for me ā at at least semi-technical MTB, as opposed to riding to the pub, is decent shoes. They do make a difference, especially on longer rides, better (stickier) rubber, stiffer shoes, it all adds up. Slapping on some cheap pedals (that may not be the best for you), and some OK-ish, but not great shoes, isnāt really giving you the best opportunity to see what you prefer, I appreciate that you have to start from somewhere, but if youāre going to try it, give yourself a good starting place.
stevenmenmuirFree MemberIām guessing cheap shoes from Evans might be some nice five tens.
Give yourself time and build up to harder stuff. Get used to the flats on easier trails so you have time to think about what youāre doing with your feet. Pumptracks are great for this as are nice rolling flow trails.hardtailonlyFull MemberSlapping on some cheap pedals (that may not be the best for you), and some OK-ish, but not great shoes, isnāt really giving you the best opportunity to see what you prefer
They are Nukeroof Horizon pedals, and Fiveten trailcross shoes, so decent enough I believe?
Thanks everyone, helpful to have the advice and experiences. Iāll persevere for a bit in trying to get used to them.
Iāve put them on my HT for now. Is that a good or bad idea? Or should I just put them on whatever bike Iām riding at the time?
Any tips/videos for jumping properly? As this is an area I have decided I want to improve on (especially gap jumps, even small ones freak me out!). Maybe I shouldnāt be trying to progress with my jumping at the same time as trying flats?
joebristolFull MemberDifferent techniques and foot position between the 2. I tend to flip flop between flats and spds depending on my mood. Generally my hardtail has spds on more Ā of the time and the fs bike flats. Although after running spds on the fs bike for BPW earlier in the year Iāve been preferring them as your foot is always in the same place but with flats you can start a section with the wrong foot position and itās very hard to change it then (superstar nano Evos with 5-10 impacts).
When doing steep tech it is nice to know you can get a foot off quickly and then get it back on a pedal quickly again though ā and flats do teach you better habits than spds.
joebristolFull MemberJust seen your last posts ā Iām not the best at jumping but when I had some coaching the technique I was taught was to be leaving the top of the takeoff ramp with straight arms ā pushing the bike up (like a manual) rather than trying to pull the bike up with your arms. I find practising that more comfortable with flats on in case you need to bail off the back.
snotragFull MemberRather than picking a camp and sticking to it, the best practice is to just flirt both ways as and when you feel like it.
I spent years going all in to one or the other camp but nowadays I regularly swap pedals and shoes around depending on seemingly not much, just what I fancy that day.
nickcFull MemberThey are Nukeroof Horizon pedals, and Fiveten trailcross shoes, so decent enough I believe?
They do seem like decent choices š
KramerFree MemberMaybe I shouldnāt be trying to progress with my jumping at the same time as trying flats?
At my coaching session with Skillsloop I was told that if I wanted to get jumping right then I needed to be doing it on flats as clipless lead to poor technique which will make it harder to progress as I got better.
convertFull MemberAgree with this.
Rather than picking a camp and sticking to it, the best practice is to just flirt both ways as and when you feel like it.
But not so much with this. Do your brain a favour and do just flats for a few weeks/months offroad so you are not constantly remembering what you are currently on in the millisecond before that little jump/bump.
failedengineerFull MemberI did the same recently.Ā After 6 rides Iāve admitted defeat and gone back to (Time) clips.Ā I just couldnāt get used to my feet bouncing off unexpectedly when pedalling on rough stuff.Ā Going down was fine, maybe better than clips, but for everything else, no.
BillOddieFull MemberBut, what kind riding suits which pedals?
You do you, but for me all my MTBing is on flats now ā partly down to knee injury, but not sure Iād go back to clips even if I could.
MOST PEOPLE GIVE UP FAR TOO SOON!Ā You need to stick with it for a few months if youāre riding twice a week. Especially if youāre old and have decades of inbuilt muscle memory.
In my head, Iām thinking ājust riding alongā / XC type riding, to stick with SPDs. Also, rocky riding. But then, steeper off-piste stuff, and maybe jumpy stuff, use flats, so itās easier to stick out a foot, dab, tripod, bail if need be?
I would use them for everything for a while then go back to clips only when efficiency is a priority AND youāre confident on them.
First ride today. I didnāt make my shins bleeds, so will take that as a win. But, I didnāt like it for jumps (Iām sure I need to change my technigue), and a few times, found my foot lifting unexpectedly off the pedal, eg climbing a technical section.
So, when should I ride flats/clips?
What do I need to learn/unlearn/do differently?
Techy climbs got me a for a while, but itās now a pretty rare occurrence i lift my foot off. Imagine trying to scrap shit off your shoe on the pedal/pushing your foot back into the pedal on those crux moves you get on a techy climb.
Jumping/dropping, I found trying to keep the front heel down and the back heel up seemed to help.
FWIW ā after riding flats for the best part of 30 years I can count the number of times I got whacked on the shin on one hand, most people who suffer than I suspect cheap out on pedals or shoes or tried flats in the pre-FiveTen era.
Bunny hopping ā took me ages to get there and Iām still not jumping gates but I can hop drainage bars, logs and what not.
Videos ā there are soooooo many on Youtube.
This is the one that really helped meā¦ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGcWNy8oZmo&t=7s
The Cathro How to Bike series is well worth a (re)watchĀ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGsNvd9EhvQ&list=PLQCfPUTFFOkmsIbQkvW2L6YM6KOLy8ElD
franksinatraFull MemberYou need to stick with it for a few months
But why? What is the advantage? I went back to clipless at the weekend and it just felt right.
monkeyboyjcFull Member30years of riding spds and Iāve tried many times to quitā¦. But every time Iām back on the clipped in train within a week. Itās an addiction I just canāt quit even though I know.my rinding will progress further with a flat pedalā¦..
BillOddieFull MemberBut why? What is the advantage? I went back to clipless at the weekend and it just felt right.
For me (aside from the lack of pain from my ruined knees) flats are more fun. YMMV
franksinatraFull MemberTh knee thing is interesting. I am fortunate to have never had knee issues. I did once read that the float you get from SPDās may, in some cases, give you more movement during a pedal stroke than what you get form decent flats and shoes. This article was suggesting that SPDās may, in some cases, be better for knees than flats.
joefmFull MemberSounds like you need to practice bunny hopping tbh.Ā push down to unweight.
convertFull MemberThis article was suggesting that SPDās may, in some cases, be better for knees than flats.
Iād agree with this (and said the same in the thread about flats for gravel riding). To be honest if you like riding with spds then maybe stick with it. The benefit I found going to flats (I came back to mtb after a ācareerā of road based competition ā hence āconvertā) was it made me work harder on my technique which has made me a more competent rider ā on flats or spd. I still ride spd or spd-sl on gravel and road bike mind. And Spd in snow and ice is rubbish in comparison to flats with issues of icing and balling up.
elray89Free MemberIām the opposite ā I struggle with SPDs when Iām mountain biking. I have them on my XC Hardtail which is generally fine and theyāre way better for hammering it on the climbs and flats, but I can feel quite uneasy on sustained descents. I think I like the feeling of my āwhole footā being supported by flat pedals, whereas on SPDs I sometimes feel like I am balancing the ball of my foot on a needle, even though my shoes are very stiff. Dropping the heel feels quite insecure, even though I know theyāre ratcheted up tight and will not come out.
Perhaps a flat enduro pedal with SPD clips would help with this, but I am stubborn in wanting to get better at the XC style!
I have never really had many crashes on my bikes, but the majority of them come from messing up techy climbs whilst clipped in haha.
BillOddieFull MemberTh knee thing is interesting. I am fortunate to have never had knee issues. I did once read that the float you get from SPDās may, in some cases, give you more movement during a pedal stroke than what you get form decent flats and shoes. This article was suggesting that SPDās may, in some cases, be better for knees than flats.
My knees are **** from other sports in my youth as much as anything. Basketball/Judo/American Football/Rugby/Jiu Jitsu are all knee killers and along with riding bikes thatās how I spent my youth/twenties.
Riding along was fine, the issue I was having is that after a decent MTB ride where you unclip a few dozen times left my left knee sore as **** for days afterwards.Ā Swapping to flats has almost entirely removed pain from that knee. The only time itās sore now is after a very long day in the hills on rough terrain on foot with the hound.
KramerFree MemberPart of the reason I like flats is because whenever my feet are getting bounced off them itās because my technique and bike position has been wrong.
Clipless are hiding the problem not fixing it.
hardtailonlyFull MemberBut why? What is the advantage?
This is kind if where Iām at ā¦
Iāve gone into this ātry flatsā thing primarily for a quite specific use-case scenario. As my riding has progressed (from trail/XC), and Iām attempting a bit more off-piste/enduro-y/steep(er) stuff, most of which has been fine on SPDs (platforms with clips and pins), Iām getting to the point where certain ācruxā moves, Iām not attempting. So, a tight, rutted, steep turn, where you eg drop off a log/root/rock, into another rut with more rocks/roots, requiring either a very precise line, and youāre having to balance you/the bike in 4D, navigate the turn etc, control your speed and braking ā¦ in these cases, Iām thinking/hoping that flats will allow me the confidence to try the move, as I can get a foot out, tripod down or if it all goes wrong, tumble down the hill not being attached to the bike!
Iām open to there being other benefits too, and persevering with it, but thatās where I see the āhoped-forā advantage.
johnx2Free MemberIām thinking/hoping that flats will allow me the confidence to try the move,
This is the sort of reason people I know have moved to flats (also that theyāre better for the pub, and just cooler than spds. Fact.) And itās probably why I did a few years ago after many years clipped in. I think itās partly to do with bikes getting more capable and so you find in spite of yourself, youāre trying more nadgery things. And thatās as technical as Iām going to get.
Iād imagined it might give me more confidence with wheelies and manuals. Ha ha ha no!Ā But it does feel more fun somehow with (small) bunny hops, jumps, drops. These took some time to come but come they did. I should probably have had some coaching or done a bit more practicing to accelerate this, but from mainly just riding it all feels v natural.
I do know folks who having ridden flats for a few years and got that confidence, have gone back to spds. I might do the same on my hardtail for those longer XC type rides with some road in them. I do the occasional xbike ride and zero confusion clipping in, but then itās a v different kind of riding. The one or two times I tried clipped in on my Occam it just didnāt really work. With one proper comedy slow motion topple. (Disclaimer: frankly shite rider here).Ā
chiefgrooveguruFull MemberI had a confused moment of thinking this was about bass playing! Rounds for me.
Never ridden clips on a mountain bike and only twice on a road bike. Used to ride with toe cages and straps (on a rigid Muddy Fox with the saddle at full height) in the first half of the ā90s which seems completely mental now!
convertFull MemberNever ridden clips on a mountain bike and only twice on a road bike. Used to ride with toe cages and straps (on a rigid Muddy Fox with the saddle at full height) in the first half of the ā90s which seems completely mental now!
Point of order. What you used to ride were toe clips. With or without straps. The road and track version had a cleat on the bottom of the shoe too with a groove across it that engaged with a ridge on the pedal. An SPD shoe and pedal is actually a ācliplessā system as it didnāt require a toe clips. Even though we often talk about being clipped in. I know, messes with your head a bit.
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