I can’t see another post about this so if there is then Mods please delete.

Going off Twitter, this issue has (correctly in my view) angered a lot of people. Some seem to be claiming that it’s nothing to do with Brexit but surely lack of drivers and lack of chemicals is down to Brexit?

Not necessarily

water companies have been dumping as much shit in rivers and the sea as they can get away with for years. see southern water fines etc.

the shortage of some chemicals is just another handy excuse.

as I understand it,this latest legislation would have forced them to spend some money, reduce their profits and we couldn’t have that…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-57777935

Nothing to do with Brexit, I think. Plenty to do with our society’s lack of care for the environment we live in and the attempt to drive up profits at any cost. The fine above was briefly mentioned on BBC 6pm news as the last item before the sport news.

Hang on, I thought we would be able to have higher environmental standards outside of the EU…

It’s almost like they were lying about everything!

.

It’s an example of non-joined up thinking. Therese Coffey, James Cartlidge and Tom Hunt all have constituencies that rely on seaside (or estuary for Hunt) tourism. Making the beaches and river banks all covered in used toiled paper and faeces isn’t going to get people flocking to the waterside.

We’ll all need our Hepatitis jabs before swimming in the sea, estuary.

ps. it not just storm conditions. take a look at this. its might shock you how much gets dumped.

https://arcg.is/1XXiGn

there is one near me in a river section i previously considered fairly clean. in 2020 it overflowed for 3882 hrs in one year!! i know it rains a lot in devon but definitely not that much….

Interesting that a number of Tory MP’s are claiming that their constituent’s contacts about this are #toxic and they should hinge their heads in shame

Maria Caulfield MP
@mariacaulfield
This is the truth about how we voted on the environment bill. None of us voted to discharge sewage into the sea and those of who have spread lies and misinformation should hang their heads in shame. Don’t ask why MPs get death threats if you have been part of this today #toxic

Apparently a number MP’s have posted almost identical responses to any criticism, almost as if they were given a script by Conservative Central Office. That would never happen , would it?

Not on Twitter.

Others have pointed out it is not a new issue, though it isn’t clear whether it is getting better or worse.

Was saddened to see the Rivercide podcast thing as I have always enjoyed padding down the Wye.

There was recourse to the European Court to hold the government to account for not meeting mandatory environmental quality standards by the public, prior to EU Exit. Not so much now.

Water board companies say brexit driver shortage

Statement on the impact of nationwide driver shortage on the water industry

Ferric Sulphate (used to treat sewage b4 emergency discharge) was stockpiled by water companies pre-brexit as it now require extra red tape to import
https://www.adlerandallan.co.uk/resources/uk-reach-after-brexit/

Operation Yellowhammer warned that this was a possibility, but because ECJ overseas REACH legislation Johnson chose to take UK out of it,
madness

Operation Yellowhammer: What it means for Britain’s clean water supplies

Unless Brexit has caused more rain, which means more storm water entering the (already stretched) sewerage system, then no its got nothing to do with Brexit I suspect. Its been going on for ever, because we don’t have an infinite capacity sewerage system.

Sure the water co’s would like to invest as little as possible/dump as much as possible, and the EA tries to keep it under control, but its neither new, or as I understand it getting any worse. As regards shortages of certain chemicals etc. Pick any industry. Something is short right now. Mostly Covid related I guess but Brexit isn’t going to help much either as we’re no longer in the big market where stuff could be easily moved from where its in surplus to where it’s needed.

the only way to solve the problem is investment. and that won’t happen unless is legislated.

the last time this topic came up, there was a great poster stating it was all the consumers fault for insisting on cheap water bills, conveniently ignoring the £57Bn of dividends paid out in the last 20yrs by privatised water companies.

England’s privatised water firms paid £57bn in dividends since 1991 | Water | The Guardian

Sure the water co’s would like to invest as little as possible/dump as much as possible, and the EA tries to keep it under control, but its neither new, or as I understand it getting any worse.

Englands private water companies have paid out £57billion to shareholders since privatisation started, there’s your problem.

edit : too late, jambo got in first.

For those who haven’t seen it

The figures for the volume of sewage being dumped untreated is shocking

Nothing new, southern water got fined £90 million for breaches between 2010 and 2015. They have just carried on dumping as it’s cheaper to pay the fines.

Just written to my MP about this. The amendment would put a legal obligation on water companies “to make improvements to their sewerage systems and demonstrate progressive reductions in the harm caused by discharges of untreated sewage.”

The EU have been chasing the UK government for years on this

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/sewage-beaches-eu-court-uk-spills-waste-water-london-sunderland-river-thames-whitburn-a8757286.html

Englands private water companies have paid out £57billion to shareholders since privatisation started, there’s your problem.

This is where I’m glad I live in Wales with Welsh Water. It’s run as a not-for-profit organisation and I’ve never had a problem with them. They have always responded promptly when I’ve had need to call them, one time I snapped the stop cock clean off at my parent’s house turning the water back on after fitting a new outside tap. This meant that neither my parents or the next door neighbour (shared supply) had water on a Sunday evening. One phone call and 3 hours later a team were there digging up the road to replace it! They were there for a solid 4 hours, well into early night and they didn’t complain at all. I got the guys a chippy each out of courteousy! Contrast with a friend who had the same thing happen to him on a Saturday and his water company not fixing it for nearly a week!

I don’t know how Welsh Water fare with regards to dumping raw sewerage though.

I saw this being reported around a month or so back.

Hang on, I thought we would be able to have higher environmental standards outside of the EU…

It’s almost like they were lying about everything!

No, our Brexiteer politicians lying, nooooooo, say it isn’t true.

This is where I’m glad I live in Wales with Welsh Water. It’s run as a not-for-profit organisation and I’ve never had a problem with them

+1 with Scottish Water.

+1 for Northern Ireland.

Once again showing how sh*te the decisions Westminster makes are.

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https://twitter.com/paoloiskandar64/status/1452581649099677711?s=21

The EU have been chasing the UK government for years on this

For years? So this has only been a problem since the UK left the EU?

Or are you saying that despite the EU “chasing the UK government for years” it’s the same old problem that the EU never managed to resolve?

Or are you saying that despite the EU “chasing the UK government for years” it’s the same old problem that the EU never managed to resolve?

yep they didnt

fine was due to be levied just b4 we left, conveniently

now that pesky ECJ isnt there to bother us though, we can wallow around in our brexshit

<blockquote“to make improvements to their sewerage systems and demonstrate progressive reductions in the harm caused by discharges of untreated sewage.”

So you kill half the fish the first time, half of the remaining half the second, and so on. Hence you have progressively reduced the harm (absolute number of fish deaths). Simples.

I thought the problem was access to treatment chemicals and the necessity of their usage for discharge. If you can’t access the necessary chemicals, legislate for their redundancy. Whether that is Brexit (Iron sulphate supplies, drivers,..) or not is immaterial. We’re all up sh_t creek. Literally.

Deregulation was always lining up behind Brexit.

fine was due to be levied just b4 we left, conveniently

So how many years did it take? And why do you think a fine is the solution to this problem? It doesn’t seem to have had much impact on water companies so far.

Surely criminal charges against individuals would be more effective?

now that pesky ECJ isnt there to bother us though, we can wallow around in our brexshit

And why isn’t it apparently a problem for Wales? Which is definitely not an EU member state. Is the problem brexit or people voting incorrectly?

And why isn’t it apparently a problem for Wales?

Why do you think?

Well whatever the answer is I don’t think it’s connected to the EU.

pic.twitter.com/NsziDUhHZ1

— The Agitator (@Agitate4Change) October 25, 2021

And why isn’t it apparently a problem for Wales? Which is definitely not an EU member state. Is the problem brexit or people voting incorrectly?

youll have to ask the water companies themselves why ….. https://www.water.org.uk/news-item/driver-shortage-statement/

people voting incorrectly or people unable to accept that brexit has negative consequences?

and it seemingly is happening in wales

It’s an interesting one because even the shysters who made pisspoor decisions to money-grab and underinvest are exposing themselves and their families to a good spattering just like Jo Public. And from next year they won’t be able to bathe in Badoit.

Stool United?

Poonited Kingdon?

EnamaLand?

Great Boweland?

Huh, Manchester is apparently the biggest shit show in England and Wales

youll have to ask the water companies themselves why …..

You can lead a 🙈🙉 to water, but you can’t make them drink.

If you can’t access the necessary chemicals, legislate for their redundancy.

Best thing is, no ECJ to rule that legislating to allow deliberate lowering of river and sea water quality is against anything you signed up to collectively with others.

Still, at least none of us here earn our living from shellfish, we’re destroying that industry so fast it’s scary

I have to windsurf in this as well. Southern water used to wait til it rained to dump thousands of liters of untreated sewerage out to sea . When it rained on our little corner of Hampshire all the road run off overwhelmed the sewers and thousands of homes would be having rivers of turds floating down through the garden or down the drive. So they opened up the tanks and boom problem solved.
The thing is now , coz Brexit , they are just dumping daily. The sea stinks , seagulls sit on it and chomp away. The beaches are covers with loo roll , sanitary products , cotton buds . They stink as well, the harbour near to the treatment plant has foamy bubbles of brown lining the margins
Unfortunatly even the EA and local council are complicit .
The council put out a nonsense bulletin stating algae death, which contradicted itself.

https://www.facebook.com/1579811081/videos/206032298312743/

watch the video . It turned the sea brown for miles . It was like the 80’s again , when ‘holiday tummy ‘ was a thing.

people unable to accept that brexit has negative consequences?

Well it would be amazing if there were no negative consequences from brexit. But your problem Kimbers is that you want to blame everything on brexit.

Obviously it makes political debates very easy……”what’s the problem with this – brexit” “what’s the problem with that – brexit”

The issue however is that it doesn’t actually solve any problems. Quite apart from the fact that it is often completely untrue the UK is no longer in the EU, so discussing how great the EU is really resolves nothing.

Furthermore your claim that the EU was about to impose a fine on the UK but brexit stopped that happening appears disingenuous.

The EU was talking about legal action against the UK over ten years before brexit :
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/09/river-thames-pollution-european-union

It was clearly a long standing problem which was not resolved by the EU.

Water quality is affected by the conflicting needs of consumers and shareholders. The wealthy and powerful EU member states recognise this which is why they are reluctant to have their own water industries privatised but very keen to privatise the water industries of other poor and weak countries.

The German government cares more about German consumers than it does about Greek consumers. Especially if a nice tidy profit can be made.

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/aug/14/germanys-hypocrisy-over-greece-water-privatisation

so discussing how great the EU is really resolves nothing

Are we not discussing the inability of our own government to mitigate the problems they have created for us? There wouldn’t be the current discharges if they had spent the last 5 years preparing our infrastructure (drivers, drivers, drivers) for the policies that they were entirely responsible for drawing up and implementing.

The EU was talking about legal action against the UK over ten years before brexit :

Yes, the EU have been pushing the UK on water (and air quality) for decades. Now the pushing has stopped, and we’ve broken our own supply chains, deliberately, we’re on an unchallenged slide to poor water quality. That means no more fresh seafood exports to the EU (and elsewhere), and a lower quality of life for those who use our rivers and coastline for pleasure as well as those who earn their living from them.

Also… all the UK water supply and sewage disposal should be in public hands. I voted for that at two elections, and really wish it was now happening… but too many people felt it was more important to press on with Brexit and “get it done” to consider voting for a party that wanted to nationalise the water companies. And now the chance to vote for that again is most likely decades away from us. Great. Enjoy your effluent, both literal and political, that will flow through the UK for years to come because of, as you put it “people voting incorrectly”.

The Defra response to the criticism is an interesting read:

Defra river poop

Pressure on this issue is a good thing. Actually fixing decades/century of aging infrastructure is less straightforward though.

Also… all the UK water supply and sewage disposal should be in public hands. I voted for that at two elections, and really wish it was now happening

You would be nationalising a set of assets that are in poor condition, the shareholders will be laughing all the way to the bank