Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 69 total)
  • Pinion E-Drive System: E-Bike Gearbox Motor
  • Ben_Haworth
    Full Member

    Pinion have crammed a motor into the gearbox. Here’s details of the Pinion E-Drive System AKA Pinion Motor.Gearbox.Unit (MGU). Pinion E-Drive TLDR: Pi …

    By ben_haworth

    Get the full story here:

    Pinion E-Drive System: E-Bike Gearbox Motor

    brant
    Free Member

    Game changer and start of the next generation of e-bikes.

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    I’m going to need one with the chainring on the opposite side*.

    Jack shafts and high pivots FTW.

    *How Dave Weagle managed to patent putting two chains on the same side I’ll never know.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/dave-weagle-patents-high-pivot-drivetrain-system.html

    tmays
    Free Member

    Wow that must have been lots of development! Keen to see if it’s the gamechanger it seems it is!

    rootes1
    Full Member

    Finally! MGU seems obvious, but taking some time to come to fruition.

    any updates from
    https://www.effigear.com/en/content/24-smart-e-bike-system
    https://www.intra-drive.com/

     

    b33k34
    Full Member

    That’s been a long while coming – was on their road map when they launched the P1/18. Lots to like about my old Pinion bike, the lack of weight on the rear wheel significantly improved the suspension action vs the same bike with conventional gears and the weight distribution felt great.

    a11y
    Full Member

    Certainly sounds like the obvious marrying up – any previous negatives of gearboxes (real or percived) largely negated by the electric motor.

    That e-bike gearbox motor in a Nicolai/GeoMetron G1 please. Plus a lottery win.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Game changer and start of the next generation of e-bikes.

    Agreed. And of course we will see trickle down tech.

    Where are the ‘big players’ like SRAM and Shimano on a central gearbox?
    Even smaller but bigger than Pinion, where companies like Mircroshift and Suntour?

    combines a wear-free electric motor

    /pedant
    Nothing is wear free
    /pedant

    hot_fiat
    Full Member

    That looks outstanding. Want one!

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    That e-bike gearbox motor in a Nicolai/GeoMetron G1 please. Plus a lottery win.

    I was thinking more a Cotic Flare Max e-Pinion and a lottery win.
    Plus of course a commuter / town bike. And another lottery win.

    ta11pau1
    Full Member

    Hell. Yes.

    As a pinion gearbox owner and lover, I’ve been looking forward to this coming out, so long as the cost isn’t extreme this will take off hugely.

    Speeder
    Full Member

    Looks like a gamechanger but 4+kgs?!?!?

    Do like the idea of it having electronic shifting though. Very smart.

    radbikebro
    Full Member

    This is awesome – what would be even cooler is if you could retro fit this system to your existing ebike. As you’ve already got mounts for a motor there, surely that can’t be an impossibility?

    dc1988
    Full Member

    Assuming it works well, I think this will bring gearboxes to the mainstream

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Cool to see, but what it says to me is: “Hold off another few years on getting an eeb, and see what else is in the pipeline in terms of engine/gearbox units.”

    Can I ask a question to the eebers here?

    These units come in 9 or 12-speed versions. How many ratios do you feel you actually need as a minimum? Could the motor assist mean you might get away with 7? 5? Even 3? Especially if the assist was engineered to respond variably to pedal input?

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    Cool to see, but what it says to me is: “Hold off another few years on getting an eeb, and see what else is in the pipeline in terms of engine/gearbox units.”

    Hold off a few years and see what their reliability and warranty policy is like, would be my thinking.

    sharkattack
    Full Member

    This is where e-bikes have always needed to go. I’m waiting for the aggro DH/Gnarpoon versions.

    The reasons I don’t have an e-bike yet are they they’re horribly overpriced, unacceptably unreliable, and they get slightly better every year.

    By the time I want one they’ll hopefully be proper good.

    jameso
    Full Member

    Right then. This on a Nicolai please.

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    Hope this can be maintained and repaired rather than binned like Shimano.

    Rubber_Buccaneer
    Full Member

    Right then. This on a Nicolai please

    I’m going to be following the Eurobike coverage to see who has one of these on a bike. Currently only seen brands I don’t recognise

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    there’s quite obviously a source of power from the big ol’ battery to allow for the electronic shifting

    but will we see this be added as a feature to the regular accoustic pinion? might fancy a zerode if it is…

    rossburton
    Free Member

    Looks like a gamechanger but 4+kgs?!?!?

    A friend happens to have a bare E8000 motor in his garage and reports that it’s 3kg alone. Add in the rest of the drivechain and, as the article says, you’re at approximately the same weight.

    My big question is long-term support from Pinion. I know a number of people with motors that have died outside of warranty and there’s nothing that can be done. Do Pinion have a track record of providing spares and servicing for more than two years?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Assuming it works well, I think this will bring gearboxes to the mainstream

    IGH hubs are the norm in most european markets for the majority of bikes.  the UK is an outlier

    big_scot_nanny
    Full Member

    Never sure of the etiquette of cross referencing another bike site, but anyway – interesting reading: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-pinion-e-drive-system.html

    monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    Should be great if they can provide reliability and good warranties….

    Cost will be interesting.

    chrismac
    Full Member

    This is definitely the direction e-bikes should go in. Makes so much more sense

    ta11pau1
    Full Member

    2.9kg and 2.6kg for of Bosch’s Performance Line CX and Shimano’s EP8 – plus another 1.8kg for a SRAM GX eagle drivetrain.

    So at 4kg, it’s a actually lighter… Not to mention the advantages of reducing unsprung mass with no rear mech or cassette on the rear wheel.

    jameso
    Full Member

    Do Pinion have a track record of providing spares and servicing for more than two years?

    My hunch is the service and warranty on something they make themselves in Germany will be A1. The Q might be about which parts are user-serviceable or replaceable, but with a customer base in durability-minded riders already I’d be amazed if they hadn’t designed this to take a chunk of market share by addressing the patchy rep or warranty concerns some other systems have.

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    Intradrive also working on something similar…
    https://www.intra-drive.com/

    They should make one without the motor then we could convert old bikes to gearbox drive where the motor has broken

    sharkattack
    Full Member

    IGH hubs are the norm in most european markets for the majority of bikes.  the UK is an outlier

    IGH hubs are for shopper bikes though. Not really the equivalent of a gearbox on a bike designed for schralping the gnarbar.

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    IGH hubs are for shopper bikes though. Not really the equivalent of a gearbox on a bike designed for schralping the gnarbar.

    Unless you mount them in the middle and use them as the pivot point.

    https://www.bikeradar.com/features/super-bike-zerode-g-1-downhill-bike/?image=4&type=gallery&gallery=1&embedded_slideshow=1

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/allen-millyard-part-1-2008.html

    monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    My hunch is the service and warranty on something they make themselves in Germany will be A1.

    Yes, I’d expect mainland Europe service/ warranty will be excellent. Prob not so much here, I know you can get a Simplon in the UK – aren’t Merlin selling all their over stock at the moment? but pretty sure Rotwild and Bulls don’t have UK distribution. I’d expect any warranty issues to be extremely slow and laborious here unless they can get a really good distribution & dealer network set up.

    andeh
    Full Member

    I don’t give 2 shits about ebikes, but this is damn cool. All the downsides associated with gearboxes on regular bikes disappear when you slap a motor in there. Properly smart move by Pinion, I reckon. Hopefully the added complexity won’t compound with the astronomical failure rate of existing ebike motors.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    *waits patiently for the electric shifting gubbins to be retrofitted to existing c1.12 gearboxes.

    Piggy bank has a rather nervous look at the moment….

    ThePinkster
    Full Member

    Looks like a great design that I’d love to have a go on.

    Rotwild already have them displayed on their site but showing them with a chain rather than belt drive, which is a bit of a shame.

     

    No mention of costs yet either

    monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    showing them with a chain rather than belt drive, which is a bit of a shame.

    Rotwild are going with chains across all their pinion models apparently. Makes manufacturing and chain tension easier for one thing. Personally I’d go with a chain over a belt anyway.

    Scienceofficer
    Free Member

    This is a rather large step in the direction of emtb refinement IMO.

    I’ve always wondered why ita not been done earlier – after all, the existing motors are all geared down internally anyway.

    Who knows about the gates transmission stuff in the real world? Its clearly more expensive, but does it last any better than a traditional chain/sprocket system?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Belts.  Most folk find them longlasting and trouble free. @midlandtrailquestgraham destroyed them.   I opted for chain for easy repair.

    GeForceJunky
    Full Member

    I love the idea and it looks great. I’d question the range, who wants 600% gear range on an enduro MTB? 420% is perfect and covers very steep hills up to well over cut-off speed.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    I’d question the range, who wants 600% gear range on an enduro MTB?

    Me. It’s great for winching up stuff.

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