I’m marvelling at the sight of the anti-brexit brigade wailing because the inability to pay uk and foreign workers a pittance is inconveniencing their lifestyle.

That’s not exactly it…

are we taking bets on when the first raging explosion will occur as some idiot sparks up a Lambert & Butler in their garage?

At least it will be roast gammon for tea.

I’m marvelling at the sight of the anti-brexit brigade wailing because the inability to pay uk and foreign workers a pittance is inconveniencing their lifestyle

According to johnson ‘…we’re transitioning into a high skill, high wage economy’.

I heard that, Er what does it actually mean 🙂

How about using a toilet that has piss all round the seat

TBH sounds like my nightclubbing years.

I think the issue is that no-ones been arsed to do toilets that can take the abuse but be spanky clean for the next user. It all relys on people being considerate for the next user.

It all relys on people being considerate for the next user.

Exactly that . If a truckers shower / toilet is covered in shit and piss, its because a fellow trucker has shit and pissed on it.
(Assuming the general shitting and pissing public dont have access to said facilities of course)

According to johnson ‘…we’re transitioning into a high skill, high wage economy’.

It means we don’t test drivers for their ability to reverse anymore, and pay them more for their services.

If you think the solution is importing cheap labour then you’re deluded.

The solution is to pay workers properly full stop. If you want more of the drivers here to be “local”, then fund their training… improve the facilities they use… don’t push them into insanely long hours… don’t deskill them by reducing the testing of their competency… we can do all this without telling EU drivers to go away. They’re not coming back anyway, they’ve got the message, they’ll be earning more, with better conditions, with better facilities, with more rights and support, in comparable EU countries instead. They aren’t coming here in any numbers this winter just because we wave a short time low rights visa at them.

Exactly that . If a truckers shower / toilet is covered in shit and piss, its because a fellow trucker has shit and pissed on it.

I don’t think it’s that simple. There’s all kinds of variables but it mostly comes down to broken window theory. The person who walks in to a battered old, dirty toilet block and discovers a toilet covered in shit and piss, isn’t likely to go out of their way to leave it presentable themselves.

It’s that whole thing, if you go to a country and find it remarkable how clean it is, it’s not because the people are inherently cleaner, it’s because there is a lot of effort from authorities to make it so, which in turn makes people more inclined to preserve that.

It’s not just a trucker problem, it’s an infrastructure problem.

The solution is to pay workers properly full stop.

Almost everything I hear is around the working conditions rather than the pay. I have friends who are drivers and they’re quite happy with the wages but less so with the job.

I work in IT and our company puts just as much emphasis on a positive working culture than it does wages, because they know how important that is for attracting the right people.

Sounds to me that truck drivers are being undervalued and wages are only a tiny part of that.

Agreed. As I said in the rest of my posts. Why do we have worse conditions and facilities for drivers in the UK than in comparable EU countries where these “not local” drivers can and do still work?

So the number of temporary visas has been capped at 5,000 with a (probable) time limit of 3 months.
I would be surprised if the take-up exceeds 1,000.
What a mess – of the UK’s own making; aren’t we clever.
johnson wouldn’t answer a US journo when asked if he could live on UC; he would also decline to answer if asked whether he would work in a job which might force him to piss into a bottle, shit into a plastic bag, sleep in a truck, eat a cholesterol inducing diet, work massively unsociable hours, spend much time away from his family whom he undoubtedly loves (doesn’t he?) – and all for no more than £50k pa.
He and his government are a shower of shit – and that’s putting it mildly.

A good read:

https://trans.info/en/there-s-a-europe-wide-hgv-driver-shortage-so-why-do-uk-supply-chains-seem-more-disrupted-254524

Interesting how the “they need us more than we need them” (ie we buy far more food and energy from them than they do from us, which is not the same thing at all as anyone honest knew and said at the time) means that drivers often have to return empty. Add in the new hassles of crossing the borders, and making up for driver shortages using drivers based outside the UK now makes little sense for those operating those lorries. So it’s not just a lack of UK based drivers that are the problem, it is all the barriers to working across borders, and the fact we do really need the EU for our supplies more than they need us for ours, that leaves us in a pit of our own making.

Add in that we have a government totally and unwilling to act in a timely and planned manner to mitigate the mess they have made, and, well… Boris Johnson Broke Britain. Don’t listen to him when at the next election he inevitably claims he and his team of campaigners who can’t govern are the people to fix the mess they led us into.

What a mess – of the UK’s own making; aren’t we clever.

You’re just not believing enough.

Is it wrong to feel smug when cycling past motorists queueing to get into petrol stations?

it was never about anti immigration…just controlled immigration – a concept the remain side never actually grasped and still haven’t. And the Eu is part of the problem

Bullshit.

Are we really still having this argument five years on? It was always about immigration, that was the primary driver for brexit. We already had controlled immigration, we simply chose not to exercise that control and then lied to the population about it. Our domestic policy was **** all to do with the EU.

I’m marvelling at the sight of the anti-brexit brigade wailing because

And you can bugger off an’ all. You’ve spent those self same five years bleating on here protesting (against self-evident signs to the contrary) that you were anti-brexit yourself. Don’t come the raw prawn now.

Sorry Drac, I’ll try to become a believer – promise.

So the number of temporary visas has been capped at 5,000 with a (probable) time limit of 3 months.
I would be surprised if the take-up exceeds 1,000.

Dunno I’d expect them to be very lucrative if they’re going for EU drivers but course you could go further afield and take advantage of lower wage economies.

Weren’t they saying they were 100k drivers short.

You’ve spent those self same five years bleating on here protesting (against self-evident signs to the contrary) that you were anti-brexit yourself.

Still very much anti-brexit. Not as much as I’m anti low pay though.

Is it wrong to feel smug when cycling past motorists queueing to get into petrol stations?

Not at all. I do it all the time – going past queues of cars, seeing the hordes on the bypass as i cross it on a bike ride. sometimes I even wave at them

Still very much anti-brexit. Not as much as I’m anti low pay though.

Whilst there’s an opportunity, or perhaps an urgent need, to reform an entire industry, it stands to reason that the knock on effect and potential inflation could actually make things worse for the lowest paid.

Who knows, maybe it’ll drive some positive change for our economic infrastructure, but migrant workers were never the problem.

FWIW I popped into the local petrol station just after lunch to buy the newspaper, just me and one other car there. No shortages in Madrid 👍

If you want to eat soup, you shouldn’t spit in the pot.

Take all the emotion out of it. What does Brexit do?

It makes us more difficult to deal with. That means cost, supply problems and reduced choice. This was all explained before the Brexit vote, but enough people chose to be duped.

The whole thing is going to unravel. It is just a question of how much people are willing to take. A gallic shrug is all I can muster.

I’m marvelling at the sight of the anti-brexit brigade wailing because the inability to pay uk and foreign workers a pittance is inconveniencing their lifestyle.

There’s something much more marvellous.

It’s the sight of the pro-brexit brigade wailing because the inability to pay uk and foreign workers a pittance is inconveniencing their lifestyle.

🙂

So the number of temporary visas has been capped at 5,000 with a (probable) time limit of 3 months.
I would be surprised if the take-up exceeds 1,000.

Dunno I’d expect them to be very lucrative if they’re going for EU drivers but course you could go further afield and take advantage of lower wage economies.

Weren’t they saying they were 100k drivers short.

European Road Haulers Association (UETR) have said they doubt many european drivers will be interested; very short term ‘opportunity’, unwelcoming environment, ‘facilities’ which are a long way short of european standards, maybe a bit more money.
Go further afield – language barrier, lack of acceptable qualification, limited/no experience of driving in europe or UK, darker skinned drivers at risk of being on receiving end of racist abuse.
Yes, the shortfall was reported as 100k; why, then, offer an ‘opportunity’ to only 5k?
The proposed end date is 24th December; shagger johnson saves christmas – my arse.

This is a pathetic attempt to do the absolute minimum and present it as ‘taking decisive action’.
Flim flam designed to appeal to the hard of thinking.

There is every sign that this excuse of a gov and johnson in particular are showing clear signs of falling apart; he’s a fraud and an incompetent.
I can’t wait for his end to come – in every respect.

He’s got away with murder for the last 2 years, but if the Range Rover Evoques in the Home Counties can’t be filled up soon, he’s going to be in trouble

Telling different lies to different people is easy nowadays – a bit of targeted Facebook work and the job’s a good’un.

Making those incompatible lies into reality is still impossible, though.

And fatso is running out of time – the bullshit can’t disguise the real world effects of his actions.

Basically, **** him.

johnson has ****ed multiple women, he’s ****ed the tory party, he’s ****ed the country so he might as well go **** himself.

The Times is reporting ESSAR Group is on the point of collapse they own a few fuel stations and some oil refineries, one where the fuel strike started all those years ago and caused a fuel crisis.
Strangely when i passed by essar Stanlow last week very few tankers leaving the place with branded and un branded fuel tankers, usually loads leave every few hours.

Well done to all the panic buyers. My daughter who is a community paediatric nurse has now got no fuel to do her job tomorrow. No diesel in any of the local stations.

Frustrating is not the word

Surely you need a ticket beyond ‘HGV driver’ to unload 36,000 litres of combustible fuel?

I’ve just tried to get fuel – tried 15 garages between Redhill and Gatwick, all closed with no fuel left. Madness. Gonna be interesting getting to a work meeting in Derby on Monday with 30 miles range left…

The gov will do anything and everything required to keep Stanlow open irrespective of Essar’s problems with HMRC.
It would be difficult to overstate the importance of that refinery as a strategic national infrastructure asset.

I think this fuel shortage may turn out to be a good thing. I thought people and businesses would have changed after the first lockdown when we learned that office workers could work from home. This has quickly been forgotten and congestion/rush hours and pollution is back.

This fuel shortage may change behaviour again. There are so many solutions like zoom meetings, public transport, cycling to work. But car culture is so strong in this country.

In reality it will only be a short blip. Normal service will resume soon and the car will be king again by this time next week. What a shame.

I’ve just tried to get fuel – tried 15 garages between Redhill and Gatwick, all closed with no fuel left.

I’m in Newcastle, working on a bike race tomorrow. The fleet cars we get as officials vehicles are almost invariably supplied from whatever car dealership is sponsoring that particular race with fumes in the tank so I was genuinely worried that we wouldn’t get fuel – or at least that it’d be a massive pain – but actually there’s a garage right next to the hotel with no supply issues at all. No queue, straight in and it wasn’t an extortionate price either.

I do wonder what the locals might think though when they see a bunch of police motos and team cars all filling their tanks there. It probably doesn’t count as “essential requirement” in the grand scheme of things…

Surely you need a ticket beyond ‘HGV driver’ to unload 36,000 litres of combustible fuel?

You need your ADR ticket (stands for Accord Dangerous Routier). Takes a fair bit of training to get and is not cheap. Also needed for carrying chemicals and anything else dangerous, if a truck has the orange plaque the driver needs it, so there is competition for qualified drivers for other goods too.

I’ve just tried to get fuel – tried 15 garages between Redhill and Gatwick, all closed with no fuel left. Madness. Gonna be interesting getting to a work meeting in Derby on Monday with 30 miles range left…

If you meet anyone that you know panic-bought and didn’t need to slap them in the face. My sister had to take my mum to hospital Friday for an appointment as mum’s car had the fuel light on and both local stations were empty. My sister had a full tank in their small car (hadn’t moved for a week as she was WFH) so she took her instead. Mum didn’t find it very comfortable so was in quite a bit of pain and discomfort on the journey back. If I meet anyone who boasts about being ok with a full tank and no real reason for it I’ll be very tempted to show them the error of their ways.

I think this fuel shortage may turn out to be a good thing. I thought people and businesses would have changed after the first lockdown when we learned that office workers could work from home. This has quickly been forgotten and congestion/rush hours and pollution is back.

This fuel shortage may change behaviour again. There are so many solutions like zoom meetings, public transport, cycling to work. But car culture is so strong in this country.

Contrary to popular belief not everyone works in an office or sits in front of bookcase in a zoom meeting for a living.

People don’t sit in front of a bookcase for a living.

frankconway
Full Member

Yes, the shortfall was reported as 100k; why, then, offer an ‘opportunity’ to only 5k?

The shortfall is 100K but we’ve been short of drivers for most of the decade; in 2014 it was 40000 IIRC. Like just about everything else, government and business has looked at the ever-growing shortage and since it’d never yet become a crisis, decided to let it keep getting worse.

(this also fuels a lot of the public response, “all of europe has a shortage”- true, but they’re mostly in the same place that we were for years, of having a shortage but not a critical one. It’s the difference between being putting the last bog roll on the hanger, and wiping your arse with your blue passport)

Don’t know how many drivers we need right now to push the shortage back out of crisis levels so that it can be ignored again for a couple of years. Not 100000. But of course it’s not just the number of drivers, it’s the fact that post-brexit we need more.

The local foodbank has asked whether my cargobike project can go and help out with deliveries with our e-cargobikes as their volunteers are too worried about using up their fuel to drive.

I’d say that’s a win for the environment right there.

Also, the smugness levels of filtering past a petrol station queue on an e-cargobike are off the scale.