Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 49 total)
  • Perhaps I’m missing something here
  • imnotverygood
    Full Member

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-66929271

    Possession of an inflammable motor-cycle?

    timba
    Free Member
    desperatebicycle
    Full Member

    I reckon the motorbike was speeding. It certainly wouldn’t be unusual!
    I see them over, sorry undertaking cars on a 30mph road using the bus lane on my way to work. Most don’t think speed limits apply to them.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Many places bus lanes are opento motorbikes iirc

    desperatebicycle
    Full Member

    Don’t be ridiculous. As if i’d mention it if it was a legal manoeuvre. If you diagree that motorbikes speed, which was obviously my point, say that.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    Driving without due care and no insurance?

    timba
    Free Member

    Definitely carless driving 😁

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Most don’t think speed limits apply to them.

    Yeah right. Random sweeping generalisation about your bogeyman road user of choice. Just as valid as muppets on pistonheads bleating about ‘most cyclists….’. I suspect the ratio of motorcyclists who think speed limits don’t apply to them is exactly the same give or take, as the number of car drivers who think the same.

    desperatebicycle
    Full Member

    I do apologise for my sweeping generalisation. Some motorcyclists (including both of my brothers) don’t obey speed limits . Which is what it looks like that motorcyclist in the news story was doing and why he was at fault.

    Jeez I’m such a racist 😂

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Which is what it looks like that motorcyclist in the news story was doing and why he was at fault.

    We can agree on that 🙂

    oldnick
    Full Member

    I agree that the biker was going too fast, but I would hope I would have seen it nonetheless.

    tomparkin
    Full Member

    Caveat I’ve only watched the video on a small phone screen…

    I’m not sure the bike is going too fast. It’s certainly faster than the cars, but the cars are quite bunched up and could be following a slow moving vehicle, i.e. the bike could be driving at the speed limit in it’s free-moving lane, while the cars on the left were moving more slowly.

    The car turning right does seem quite close to the car in front of it which could be a factor in the driver’s failure to observe the bike.

    Hope the rider is alright.

    doomanic
    Full Member

    Some folk’ll never lose a toe, but then again some folk’ll, like Stravius, the fire-balled biker.

    tomparkin
    Full Member

    It’s certainly faster than the cars, but the cars are quite bunched up and could be following a slow moving vehicle, i.e. the bike could be driving at the speed limit in it’s free-moving lane, while the cars on the left were moving more slowly.

    Ok, having squinted more closely you can see the bike approaching and it seems to be moving away from the traffic behind it.

    didnthurt
    Full Member

    Looks like some of the fault also lies with the car driver IMO from the clip.

    But looking at the other news article, it couldn’t have happened to a nicer chap.

    didnthurt
    Full Member

    No woman toe cry.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Most of the fault lies with the car driver.  speeding ( which we do not know for sure) might be considered as contributing but the car driver hit the biker while the car driver was on the wrong side of the road.

    bedmaker
    Full Member

    If only the car driver was in a sensible SUV, they’d have had better visibility up ahead.

    As a rider, you know there are folk out there half asleep, distracted, generally crap at driving.  The road is a shared space with all the uncertainty that brings.

    That’s why you know that bombing past a solid queue through town doing way over the limit is a risky business with potential for career ending consequences if you’re a footballer.  I’d put it at 75% biker fault based on the vid.

    mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    +tjagain

    car, SMIDSY, drove in front of bike

    bike, speeding? can’t tell from the vid myself. But, doesn’t appear to brake?

    unpleasant end result

    I’m not sure the bike is going too fast.

    9 points and a fine seems excessive for a rider riding normally with due care and attention etc etc. I’m guessing there may have been some sort of investigation afterward – an exploding vehicle would usually attract the attention of emergency services, don’t you think?

    poly
    Free Member

    Google says:

    He was a provisional license holder and pled guilty to:

    – driving other than in accordance with his license (that can mean not displaying L plates, but might mean the bike was too big for a learner too). (Offence range: 3-6pts)

    – driving without insurance.  That might be “simply” because of the license offence, or it might be he didn’t have a policy at all. (Offence range: 6-8pts)

    – driving without due care and attention (more properly the offence is Careless driving – I can’t remember if vehicle defects are covered in there, but perhaps there was a reason why it burst into flames) (Offence range: 3-9pts)

    You only get points on one offence if multiple committed at same time (except in very specific circumstances).  He could have been disqualified for any of the above.  Multiple offences can aggravate each other.  The sentencing for Careless driving should have been on the manner of the driving not the consequences of the collision.  His own injury would likely have been presented as some mitigation.  Having pled guilty the magistrates may not have seen the video and may be working purely on the prosecutor’s description (which the defendant can challenge).  We don’t know what was said, what previous offences he may have committed etc.  He originally denied being the driver/rider which won’t have done him any favours.

    The car driver may also have been prosecuted, but if he was willing to accept he had made an error would likely have been offered a fixed penalty and so not reported in the media.  Guidance seems to be not to use FP for accidents involving injury, but practice seems to be they are often used.

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    If the biker was speeding, if he hadn’t hit the car then he was about to blast past a speed camera. You can see it in the top left of the picture and the road markings in the bottom right

    tomparkin
    Full Member

    9 points and a fine seems excessive for a rider riding normally with due care and attention etc etc. I’m guessing there may have been some sort of investigation afterward – an exploding vehicle would usually attract the attention of emergency services, don’t you think?

    I think a flaming motorcycle on the public highway probably would attract the attention of the emergency services, yes.

    My horrible phone didn’t show any of the context that my PC does, for whatever reason, so I hadn’t seen the text describing the points and conviction. So I was just commenting on the video, and I did also later retract my statement about the bike’s speed — when you look more closely it does appear to pull away from the traffic in its lane, so possibly speeding.

    J-R
    Full Member

    Most of the fault lies with the car driver.

    I don’t know the facts here other than a few seconds of video on a small screen. But no doubt there was a police serious RTA investigation into this, and as a result the people who do know the facts decided the motorcycle was guilty of Careless Driving.

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    There’s no way that car driver had a clear view of the road before turning. Road curving to the left and he’s close to the car in front.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Would have expected the driver to get a careless driving charge for this, although he/she had only a split-second to register the bike as the manoeuvre began – looking at 3 and 4 seconds, the bike would have come into view for someone in a RH drive car just as they started across the centre line, and an emergency stop there might have left him enough room to go through. Marginal though, and the driver might win in court.

    I suspect the when it emerged that the rider had no insurance/licence etc and previous unrelated convictions, the mindset of the police/CPS was that he was a wrong’un and to focus on him.

    hot_fiat
    Full Member

    Watch it on a big screen (cast it to a TV or something). He’s doing about 60 in a 30 (there’s a 20 zone in the parallel road, you can see the drop up to 30 where the t-junction that joins the main t-junction is). Difficult to prove with a dashcam but given the way he’s dispatching traffic to his rear pretty easy to do for due care, not for the speed directly, but for not anticipating that a vehicle waiting to enter a t-junction to the right may cross in front of you. I suspect the driver of the vehicle he hit might have been cautioned but not charged.

    Couldn’t happen to a better knacker.

    J-R
    Full Member

    the mindset of the police/CPS was that he was a wrong’un and to focus on him.

    Or maybe the police:
    – measured the motorcycle skid mark and used that to estimate his speed as far above the speed limit
    – talked to witnesses who described the motorcyclist‘s behaviour in the few seconds before the incident, not clear on the video
    – interviewed the car driver and motorcyclist about their version of what happened
    – looked at videos of just before the crash from other dashcams.

    I am much more prepared to accept the decision to charge him and find him guilty rather than the armchair experts with 5 seconds of video on a mobile phone.

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    He’s doing about 60 in a 30

    Doesn’t look anywhere near that. I’ve slowed the footage down and the bike passes the four cars in front of the turning car in about 2 seconds. Even assuming a conservative length per car of 4.5m and a gap in between each one of 3m, that would be 27m in 2 seconds which is 29 miles per hour. Even assuming a margin error of 20%, he still only doing 35mph. He may have braked although it doesn’t look like he does until he’s past the end of the last car, but I think 60mph is way off

    Olly
    Free Member

    The driver was definatly not taking the care and attention required, a pretty shockingly crap turn.

    Having said that, its hard to see but i think the biker came from overtaking the flow of traffic?
    I suspect quite a few people would have stopped at a crash involving a fireball!, so plenty of witnesses to report his riding behaviour in the preceding few minutes.

    Plenty of times i’ve been passed by a motorbike (or car) and half expected to see them wedged under an HGV at the next roundabout.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I had a very similar collision, where a car did a right turn across me from a line of traffic and I hit the rear end, was thrown over it and had to be taken to A&E.

    The driver was a youngish woman on her way to college. She was visibly upset and in tears.

    While I was at A&E my wife (who wasn’t aware of the accident) was contacted by the woman’s father, offering to pay for any damage.

    I was visited by the Police at home later that evening  with a warning that I might be charged as I was at fault for riding too fast.

    I was riding a bicycle, wearing a white helmet and wearing a fluorescent yellow GoreTex jacket.

    Forgive me for concluding that blame isn’t always assigned according to the circumstances and it might actually have lots to do with prejudice.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    I was visited by the Police at home later that evening with a warning that I might be charged as I was at fault for riding too fast.

    ‘What exact speed was I going, officer?’

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I think that when she starts to turn, or has decided to, the bike is not visible because she’s too close to the car in front. But I also reckon he’s speeding quite a bit. Not 60 but perhaps 35-40. Of course if he’d been doing 20 he’d have had plenty of time to stop or avoid 😉

    One would assume the police looks at these things before deciding to charge someone though.

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    Doesn’t look anywhere near that. I’ve slowed the footage down and the bike passes the four cars in front of the turning car in about 2 seconds. Even assuming a conservative length per car of 4.5m and a gap in between each one of 3m, that would be 27m in 2 seconds which is 29 miles per hour. Even assuming a margin error of 20%, he still only doing 35mph. He may have braked although it doesn’t look like he does until he’s past the end of the last car, but I think 60mph is way off

    A bit of a technical explanation with little actual clear footage available, but I agree that its not 60. But I would judge that as about 45. And either way he’s well over the limit, and because of that was unable to stop in time.

    Plus its at a t junction, and everyone on two wheels knows when you approach a t junction you keep a good look out for oncoming traffic suddenly turning.

    Kramer
    Free Member

    Speed limits don’t apply to bicycles.

    Drac
    Full Member

    I was visited by the Police at home later that evening with a warning that I might be charged as I was at fault for riding too fast.

    What was the outcome as that’s half a story where the police warned you may be charged if you had been riding too fast?

    J-R
    Full Member

    The driver was definatly not taking the care and attention required, a pretty shockingly crap turn.

    How do you know – you can’t see what the driver can see at the moment they started to turn?  It is entirely believable that she saw slow moving oncoming cars giving her plenty of time to turn, then at the last moment as she naturally focused her attention to the road she was turning into, a motorbike overtook the cars at high speed and couldn’t stop before it hit her.

    I have no proof of this, but you have no proof of a “shockingly bad” turn – except that it was the motorcyclist who got charged for careless driving.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Speed limits don’t apply to bicycles.

    You can be done for ‘furious cycling’ though, which always amuses me. But only if you’ve injured someone. Which in case, would be yourself!

    J-R
    Full Member

    blame isn’t always assigned according to the circumstances and it might actually have lots to do with prejudice.

    Oh well that proves it, the driver was to blame but the innocent motorcyclist got fitted up by the police

    tjagain
    Full Member

    You can be done for ‘furious cycling’ though,

    Not any more – certainly in Scotland, its dangerous, careless or reckless cycling

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    Oh well that proves it, the driver was to blame but the innocent motorcyclist got fitted up by the police

    It’s beyond question that the motorist turned across in front of an oncoming vehicle.

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