I’m interested in those who state they RLJ when they consider it safe and appropriate… why not do the same in your car? By all purposes there must be hundreds of junctions you stop at when there’s no traffic and you could simply ‘jump across’.

I’m sure you could RLJ in a car safely, and appropriately all day long – so why the mental disparity? or is it simply the fact that you have a number plate to make you identifiable to the ‘powers that be’ if you get seen/caught?

Al, you forgot to quote the bit where I still disagree with you

The bigger issue to this whole thread is that our infrastructure still doesn’t support cycling as a viable and safe form of commuting

Agreed, particularly when you get outside of cities and want to commute between towns etc.

Why would you do that to yourself?

You would do that because when the lorry/car and caravan etc comes over the bridge in the other direction you don’t want squashing between it and the large vehicle you are currently passing on the outside and there isn’t a space to nip into to save your ass.

When you see the big vehicle coming towards you, you pull into a gap in the line of traffic on your side? Just a thought, seems to work for me.

cynic-al – Member

But you think my RLJing is visible to other road users?

so you only do it when other road users cant see you – guilty conscience? 🙂

The bigger issue to this whole thread is that our infrastructure still doesn’t support cycling as a viable and safe form of commuting, and people feeling they have to break laws to make it safe validates that.

just thought that was so good it needed to be highlighted

36 and rarely.

don simon – Member
Two sides to every story and I imagine that if Mr Hyer had looked before stepping onto the crossing this might have been avoided

Just want to say, that in a forum full of idiotic comments, this is close to the most idiotic I’ve seen. Blaming a pedestrian for being hit whilst crossing the road at, presumably, a pedestrian crossing when the lights are green is amazing. The cyclist was the only one in the wrong here and irrespective of your views of RLJ, his actions, and his alone caused the accident. If this was a pedestrian stepping off the curb and walking into the road and the rider didn’t try to avoid, they get to share some blame, as it was, none for Mr Hyer.

When you see the big vehicle coming towards you, you pull into a gap in the line of traffic on your side?

Where is queue of traffic that leaves bikes sizes spaces between the all the cars?

I come from a road club background the sort of things people are talking about just would not be acceptable by the old guard in our club, you’d be asked not to come back.

In fact, bring back Cycling Proficency tests.

monkey – I don’;t want to give cyclists a bad name.

prezet – you can’t see so much from a car, so it’s more dangerous, and it looks worse, and is less acceptable to the public.

You are generalising about when us RLJers RLJ. Some are more careful than others. Sorry if this messes up your moral highground!

atlaz – Member

don simon – Member
Two sides to every story and I imagine that if Mr Hyer had looked before stepping onto the crossing this might have been avoided

Just want to say, that in a forum full of idiotic comments, this is close to the most idiotic I’ve seen. Blaming a pedestrian for being hit whilst crossing the road at, presumably, a pedestrian crossing when the lights are green is amazing. The cyclist was the only one in the wrong here and irrespective of your views of RLJ, his actions, and his alone caused the accident. If this was a pedestrian stepping off the curb and walking into the road and the rider didn’t try to avoid, they get to share some blame, as it was, none for Mr Hyer.

How do you know? He might have had headphones on, been drunk, clearly saw the cyclist coming etc etc…

You would do that because when the lorry/car and caravan etc comes over the bridge in the other direction you don’t want squashing between it and the large vehicle you are currently passing on the outside and there isn’t a space to nip into to save your ass.

Erm….

The road leading up to the bridge is about 1.5 car widths per carriageway so I generally ride down the outside of the stationary traffic before inserting myself into an appropriate spot ready to cross the bridge.

Believe it or not I’m quite keen to avoid being squashed so assess any risk (however minor) before taking actoin. Why do you not think that other people are capable of this?

you can’t see so much from a car

I can’t see how that’s true – unless you’re already half way across the junction. I believe cyclists RLJ’ing isn’t all that acceptable by the public either. In fact, it’s normally the first thing they moan about when cyclists are mentioned.

I’m sure you can find worse comments than that! Don isn’t saying that Hymer is to blame at all, just that it is likely that if he’d looked the accident wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine anyone would support the idea that you should cross the road without looking, regardless of what the lights say.

How do you know? He might have had headphones on, been drunk, clearly saw the cyclist coming etc etc…

As I understand it, the cyclist was RLJing. Therefore, it is the cyclist’s fault.

The idea of queuing in a line of cars while waiting for a light to change is frankly ridiculous, I find it hard to believe that anyone does it and I can’t say I’ve ever seen anyone do it on my commute.

I come from a road club background the sort of things people are talking about just would not be acceptable by the old guard in our club, you’d be asked not to come back.

Understandable. Organising safety for a large group and keeping that group together is a very different prospect to making your own decisions about you own safety and your own progress.

I come from a road club background the sort of things people are talking about just would not be acceptable by the old guard in our club, you’d be asked not to come back.

Did your road club take group rides through jammed up traffic? That must have been a bundle of laughs, 80 mile fast group sitting in traffic for 3 hours of the ride.

Club rides aren’t really the same as a daily commute are they? The ones I’ve been on aren’t otherwise I probably wouldn’t have gone back, asked or otherwise!

6 pages for what clearly is a black and white (or should i say red & green?) thread – really, do we have to keep on with this?

clearly is a black and white thread

If you take the time to examine it more closely, there are shades of grey…

It’s not black and white at all.

ransos – Member

How do you know? He might have had headphones on, been drunk, clearly saw the cyclist coming etc etc…

As I understand it, the cyclist was RLJing. Therefore, it is the cyclist’s fault.

If only life were so simple.

Did your road club take group rides through jammed up traffic?

We set off from a town, we pass through towns.

The point I’m making is when a club is out, riding safely, calling out when a car is approaching, waiting at lights, and Mr 40+ Cervelo rides down the middle of the road and cuts in front of the car at the front of the queue, that rubs off on all of us.

As cyclists we are representing each other, other people poor calls effect me next time that driver THEY pissed off passes me.

We’ve got a responsibilty to each other as a collective, do some people not see that

I must admit that I have gone through some red lights in the car, when it has been perfectly safe to do so. It’s fine if you want to label me as some sort of menace on the roads, because I know that isn’t the case and I’m not really bothered what you nutters think.

The only reason I don’t do it more often is that if I do it on my bike and a Policeman sees me he flashes his lights and shakes his head at me, end of story. (Has happened once turning left at a junction where there *should* be a left turn filter light for that phase of the lights as nothing can cross the junction to go that way at that time) If I do the same in the car it’s inevitable that I’ll be pulled and have the book thrown at me. Those are the practicalities of the situation.

I’m not sure why my motives are under question, I don’t see anything wrong with wanting to make good progress and to make the minimum number of stops during a training ride, so long as you don’t endanger anyone whilst doing so. Why is it selfish when my actions have no impact on anyone else?

If you take the time to examine it more closely, there are shades of grey…

It’s not black and white at all.

clearly there are only two people on here who think it isnt – in the eyes of the law, its black and white.

just going to be going round in circles on this one – so i’ll stop posting on this thread.

+1 paulrockliffe

The public perception argument is complete rubbish. Car drivers dislike cyclists for selfish reasons, they use the RLJ thing to express their dislike because they don’t have a rational reason. If they understood that every cyclist is one less car sat in front of them in their queue there wouldn’t be the same antagonism.

+2 paulrockliffe !

How do you know? He might have had headphones on, been drunk, clearly saw the cyclist coming etc etc…

So as long as I run people over who are rocking out, drunk or have seen me on pedestrian crossings, it’s shared blame? 🙄

I come from a road club background the sort of things people are talking about just would not be acceptable by the old guard in our club, you’d be asked not to come back.

I come from a road club and all road men I know run red lights, go on pavements go down wrong side of the road when there are ques of traffic. What road club are you from the boring-vicars.c.c or the Jobsworth.c.c?

in the eyes of the law, its black and white.

No-one’s disputed that.

The main point discussed has been safety.

Why is it selfish when my actions have no impact on anyone else?

Is it not selfish because it perpetuates the myth that all cyclists are RLJing hooligans?

Alex, you come out with Leeds chaingang without mudguards between 1st October and beginning of March and you’re made to ride at the back and if you come back again without them, well, no one does it a second time.

They have behavioural code, not written, but you soon find out when you’ve broken it.

How does it perpetuate anything if the only person that knows about it is me? I suppose some drivers might read this thread and form an opinion, but honestly, I think my swift progress ranks higher than that given the probabilities of that happening.

Mudguards make perfect sense in a chaingang in winter. What’s your point exactly?

Oh so that rule is only applicable to chaingangs in Leeds is it? Becauses I seem to remember that happening to me. Yet still the old road men I ride with ride on pavements, wrong side of road, through red lights where applicable. Not all the time, not for instance on the wrong side of the road when there is no traffic and the bike is clearly the slowest road user.

[edit]I would also suggest that your club has something written down about chaigangs and mudguards. Unless of course they’re not a very organisd club? [/edit]

atlaz – Member
So as long as I run people over who are rocking out, drunk or have seen me on pedestrian crossings, it’s shared blame?

My point is that it is possible that the ped could have had some share of the blame. Unlikely, yes, but possible.

Well Alex, the guys I ride with don’t because we are not knobs and we think that people who do all these things are knobs.

So now you are calling me a nob?

[edit] for what its worth I live at the top of a hill that feeds down into part a junction on a main road that is part of the commuter route; for me to sit behind the queue of traffic would mean me hobbling down this hill and it would take me 30 mins to get to the meeting spot for the weekday chaingangs when if I rolled down on the wrong side or on the pavement or I took the journey when not at rush hour would take me less than 2 minutes. Are you really suggesting you would stand behind all the cars and take a tiny step at a time? [/edit]

I suppose some drivers might read this thread and form an opinion

Yes, yes they might…

I’m calling people who ride on pavements, jump red lights, go down one way streets the wrong way because its convenient to them, and in turn give cyclists a bad name knobs.