New car legal advice – Sh** dealers (again)

Last week I did a deal on a brand new Volvo V60 R Design. The dealer let me test drive a few cars, they were left the keys to my 2016 Mercedes E Class whilst I was out driving theirs. They asked me about my car and told them it had 85k, FSH and recent major service, MOT etc etc. I’ve spent £3,000 on maintenance on it in the 12 months and 20k miles I’ve done in it. They valued my car and it came in favourable, thinking they’d upped the value knowing clean Merc’s are bringing a premium at the moment and used some margin from the new car. The valuation left me a small deposit for the new car, so done the deal.

Just had a phone call from them saying there’s been a discrepancy, my car has 86k on the clock, not 35k. I said to them that I never claimed it did have 35k on the clock, why would I when I bought it a year ago today with 64k on the clock. Apparently when they were evaluating my trade in the girl entered 35k on the trade in form and the car was valued based on that. When I dug deeper about the ‘form’ it transpires that it’s what the girl had completed was on her PC. During the test drive, I left my keys with them to check my car over knowing fine well they would check the odometer and bodywork, as they all do!

I told them that why on earth would I do that when the MOT history is readily available, I’ve left dozens of service receipts with mileage references on it, I’ve had services done on the car that aren’t even due til the car has done 60k (gearbox service as an example).

The sales manager said they didn’t check the odometer or MOT history because they expect their customers to be truthful and he’d check the CCTV to see if I’d left my keys on her desk whilst out for a test drive! He said he will ‘back his girl to the hilt’ and will be getting the dealer principal to contact me in the morning to discuss it.

As I had a private plate on my car I had to put it on retention and awaiting the log book. Because they need it, they normally ask for a holding deposit, so I told them to keep the £1400 they owe me until I bring the new V5 back. Hardly the stance of a fraudster.

I’m absolutely raging with them, a new car experience totally ruined because of incompetence.

I’m sure I have a cooling off period with the car as the deal was signed online.

I’ve told them I’m not paying any more money, they’ve had numerous opportunities to have checked my car over, even in my absence.

I’d have rang my brother in law if he wasn’t on holiday 🙂

I’m absolutely raging with them, a new car experience totally ruined because of incompetence a typo.

Just cancel the deal 🤷‍♂️ & go with a different dealer.

Although it’s 100% on them to check the part exchange vehicle over before giving you a confirmed exchange value, but there’s prob some get out clause in the paperwork.

a new car experience totally ruined

Is buying a car ever a nice experience? For me it’s always been full of pitfalls and concerns and I’m never comfortable until at least a month after getting the keys to the new car so I’m confident it’s not a lemon.

My best part of car ownership is after 12 months once you have settled with the car and any of the admin and financial bits are long settled down.

He can back his girl to the hilt all he likes, no one’s accusing her of anything more than a typo. Have you got the offer in writing? If not just hand the car back ASAP and take photos of the whole thing, inside and out, every panel and wheel etc while you are handing it back.

Have you got your new car or not?

If you have tell them to swivel.

If not tell them to swivel and go to another dealer.

Perhaps when the salesperson gave the details to the girl for trade-in value his written 85k looked like a 35k to her.

Me? Why?

Their cock-up, their error to sort out. Businesses have to accept errors every day, you can’t always go back to the customer and say ‘we made a mistake, give us some extra cash’.

They are sorting it. They’re telling you to pay up or go elsewhere, sorted. I’m sure if there was still money in the deal for them after finding out the 50,000 mile difference, and you were lovely and polite throughout, they could help – however they just might not want to

I’m tempted to say tough luck to the dealer, but then I thought about it. Just suppose you’d taken in a 35K car and the dealer had put in 85K on the PX screen and they’d come back with an offer on that basis.

Would you raise it and expect them to revise? Is what they’re doing any different?

Only difference is 1/ sticking it to the man; 2/ time elapsed to spot the error. Neither are good enough reasons to go absolutely raging over.

They valued my car and it came in favourable, thinking they’d upped the value knowing clean Merc’s are bringing a premium at the moment and used some margin from the new car.

How much better was the valuation than you had in your mind – you must have had an idea? Sure it wasn’t a case of ‘don’t look a gift horse in the mouth’?

You come across as much of a **** as they do. Well done chum.

Come on, are we not past the personal attacks on this forum still? Not really acceptable bud.

This your car or BIL’s car again.

🙂

The sales manager said they didn’t check the odometer or MOT history because they expect their customers to be truthful

And this doesn’t seem to ring true – every car I’ve ever traded the sales person has sat in the drivers seat and turned the ignition on to check for warning lights etc.

They’re just as suspicious of us as we are of them! They aren’t mugs. 🙂

I recently part ex my car, I had to sign a form that included their agreed part ex value of my car.

If it’s a main dealer I would be amazed if you didn’t have the same ?

He can back his girl to the hilt all he likes, no one’s accusing her of anything more than a typo. Have you got the offer in writing?

I said the same, but they’re talking to me with real contempt like I’ve deliberately mis-informed her, which pisses me off more than anything as I know that’s not the case. Part ex value and settlement figure is mentioned on order form.

Have you got your new car or not?

Yes, picked it up today, they called me 4 hours after owning it to tell me about the ‘discrepancy’.

How much better was the valuation than you had in your mind – you must have had an idea?

It was about where I expected it to be, especially given they were looking to do a deal on a car they had to shift on and had lots of margin to play with due to the extensive list of options that inflated the RRP.

Sure it wasn’t a case of ‘don’t look a gift horse in the mouth’?

Nope. I’d been offered slightly more for a private sale, but the ease of handing it to the dealer and them paying off the finance was worth losing the £200 more I’d been offered privately.

Come on, are we not past the personal attacks on this forum still? Not really acceptable bud.

Thanks, Airvent, much appreciated.

And this doesn’t seem to ring true – every car I’ve ever traded the sales person has sat in the drivers seat and turned the ignition on to check for warning lights etc.

Exactly! The trade in was in A1 condition and had full service history, new tyres all round, two new batteries and new control arm bushes, at the time they said it looked like a 3 year old car not 6 year old.

For the comments about ‘go to another dealer’…. I bought this car because it was built, ready to drive away and not subject to a factory order. I have a 14 day cooling off period with it, if the garage want to get arsey then I’ll hand it back and they can give me my Merc back and costs involved.

So they’ve formed a contract, you’ve traded in your car, which they had the opportunity to inspect, handed over your new one, given you your paperwork, received yours, which presumably includes a fsh/mot docs for the Merc, and waved you off the forecourt?

They just haven’t done their due diligence, have they? The idea that it is normal for them to complete a deal based solely on the word of the customer is laughable.

Has the Volvo been registered to you yet? Would have thought it will cost them more to take it back at this stage, as it is effectively now a secondhand vehicle.

(I now sit back and await the inevitable arrival of the car dealership on the thread. I noted from ‘that’ thread that you were somewhat combustible in your negotiating style. 🙂 )

Seems like the salesperson is trying to cover their arse but have zero leverage over you.
Move on…

if the garage want to get arsey then I’ll hand it back and they can give me my Merc back and costs involved.

What costs involved?  You chances of getting anything are very low IMO

What costs involved?

£500 + VAT.

The sales manager said they didn’t check the odometer or MOT history because they expect their customers to be truthful and he’d check the CCTV to see if I’d left my keys on her desk whilst out for a test drive! He said he will ‘back his girl to the hilt’ and will be getting the dealer principal to contact me in the morning to discuss it.

‘I’m sorry your (poor) internal processes have lead to this situation, but fail to see how this is my issue’

‘I’m sorry your (poor) internal processes have lead to this situation, but fail to see how this is my issue’

^ that.
The deal is done is it not? All signed and sealed?

I didn’t realise you already have the car. Definitely put that into “that’s the dealers issue to fix (internally)” in that case

Surely the dealer will have an inspection plan when making a trade in offer? Ask for a blank copy. Surely they must check the condition of the vehicle and odometer before making an offer?

I would be rather difficult to get hold of in this situation. Take day off work to sort new car. Not going to be answering many post sale follow up calls during office hours the following day.

Ooo Mick’s back with another car based slightly dodgy tale of woe…

Based on past performance, I’m more inclined to believe the unbelievable and side with the dealer…

Tell them you grifted them good and proper and ask what they’re gonna do about it.

If they don’t check the Odo, on what basis did the girl type in 35k miles?

Car dealers are buffoons and rate with along side Tory MP’s IMHO. Tell them to do one, their mistake. Would they not loose money as you now have the car and therefore would now be “Used”? Would they now stand to loose more money on the car if you returned it?

I hate them, utter buffoons……

The sales manager said they didn’t check the odometer or MOT history because they expect their customers to be truthful

Well I expect car dealers to do their due diligence when entering into a multi-thousand pound contract, and proving you were deceitful is likely to be a lot more difficult than proving it was a typo.

I had a more pleasant overall experience recently but the dealer never transferred the car to my name. 3 weeks later I called them to say DVLA still had it registered to them and my sales guy said the DVLA were lying, he’d done the transfer, there was nothing else he could do.

Good job he’d given me their full copy of the V5C in all the other paperwork…

If they don’t check the Odo, on what basis did the girl type in 35k miles?

When I was asked about the details of my car she typed the details into her PC, they’re now claiming that I told her it was 35k, not 85k.

Would they not loose money as you now have the car and therefore would now be “Used”? Would they now stand to loose more money on the car if you returned it?

Yep!

So they’ve formed a contract, you’ve traded in your car, which they had the opportunity to inspect, handed over your new one, given you your paperwork, received yours, which presumably includes a fsh/mot docs for the Merc, and waved you off the forecourt?

They just haven’t done their due diligence, have they? The idea that it is normal for them to complete a deal based solely on the word of the customer is laughable.

This x 10

( leaving aside the recent ( as yet unverified) news that you’re the Ming bloke ( are you?))
Chill dude, the dealer had effed up.

If you’re upset by them trying to blame it on you then just laugh at them. Don’t let their crap get to you, just literally laugh at them down the phone.

You have a contract, you have the car. Where’s the catch?

I go back to my other points that you haven’t answered

I’m tempted to say tough luck to the dealer, but then I thought about it. Just suppose you’d taken in a 35K car and the dealer had put in 85K on the PX screen and they’d come back with an offer on that basis.

Would you raise it and expect them to revise? Is what they’re doing any different?

Only difference is 1/ sticking it to the man; 2/ time elapsed to spot the error. Neither are good enough reasons to go absolutely raging over.

It sounds like an honest mistake. I get you’re pissed off that they’re saying you misled them, and my stance hardens again at that. But it’s not as if they’ve said ‘type in 35K, that’ll give us the collateral to do a deal, then we’ll spot the mistake blame it all on him and nail him for another £1500’ is it?

If you’re going down the dig your heels in route, I’d request copies of paperwork (I assume they have dealer notes on a form or in a notebook, and also copies of the service history as i suppose you handed them over with the keys and service book) and talk about timely due diligence before signing a binding contract.

Could you find a compromise? Part settle the difference in return for a service plan, for example?

I don’t see why he has to do anything.

AS above “sorry mate, your mistake, have a nice day”

All of this is assuming you don’t need to use that dealer again of course for any warranty/issues.

I was told by a dealership that my secondhand car had not been in an accident or had any bodywork repair, only to find the rear bumper was patched with filler (to be fair it was a good repair and I couldn’t see it I only found out when I had a tow ball fitted because the epoxy had glued the bumper to the substructure).

I was advised caveat emptor applied (As long as they don’t put anything in writing they can tell you whatever bollocks they like).  I would guess that the same applies in reverse.  Its not the same dealership but perhaps group karma applies

What advice are you actually looking for?

If you haven’t lied then it’s just their mistake.

You mention the cooling off period. Do you want to keep the new car or not?

It feels like you haven’t decided that.

As I had a private plate on my car I had to put it on retention and awaiting the log book. Because they need it, they normally ask for a holding deposit, so I told them to keep the £1400 they owe me until I bring the new V5 back. Hardly the stance of a fraudster.

I don’t understand this bit. Why do they owe you £1,400?

Presumably at the point of sale there was some sort of bill of sale, invoice, something you had to sign which recorded all the details of the transaction? What does that say on it?

Hang on..
You sold them your car for X amount…
They sold you your new volvo for £y-x…
It’s all signed and you’re in a shiny new car.

And now they are phoing you asking you to give them some money back?
Is this right?

It’s not clear what this £1400 is…

If this is right, this is the equivalent of me selling someone a bike for £500, then a week later asking them if they’ll give me another fifty for it…no???!!

Tell them to jog on.

DrP

I’m still wondering why he sold the first car being as he spent so much money on it and it was so good.

I daresay just like OP’s last car-related thread there’s probably more to this than meets the eye…

The OP isn’t always up front with car threads https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/legal-advice-please-cancelling-a-new-car-dispute/

Until we know the other sides version, let’s not assume things are what they seem to be

Anyhow, if you had a slightly higher offer for a private sale, sounds like they were trying to signficantly lowball you on a trade-in for a immaculate car with 50K fewer miles.

Still don’t understand the 1400 business.

you’re the Ming bloke

I think he is saying it cost home £1400 to out his plate on retention, and if he returns the new car and cancels the deal, he wants it refunded from them. 🤷‍♂️